It depends what time frame you're talking about but I can make my list nonetheless:
1. Grand Trunk + Milwaukee Road - Still a bloody shame, IMHO, that this didn't go through. Will always blame CNW for this one.
2. UP + CNW + PRR - The "U.S. Highway 30 Merger". Hey, two out of three ain't bad.
3. BN + ICG - To this day I still don't understand BN's preoccupation with Frisco.
4. ATSF + NYC - In response to #2.
I've also been intrigued with the possibility of MILW + EL as F3A suggested or maybe even an ATSF + MILW + NYC combo.
1 - Milwaukee Road and Erie-Lackawanna
2 - Lehigh Valley and Canadian National
3 - B&O and Missouri Pacific
Per the question about who could force the C,M,St. P & P to merge;
The Road's stockholders and management.....
As a previous poster pointed out there was a proposal during the 1960's to merge the Milwaukee with the C&NW as well as another one to combine Milw/C&NW/Rock Island (which was to include selling the Rock's lines south of Kansas City to ATSF).
I know the latter idea was put forward by the Northwestern's president and I suspect it was an attempt to counter the UP-Rock Island proposal..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
K4sPRR In the 1950's. PRR/N&W/NKP, the PRR and N&W is a no brainer as the PRR was the majority stock holder and similar in operation and commodities. Adding the NKP the "Pennsylvania Western" would of resulted in a more competitive route along the Great Lake region and direct route west to Chicago on a now expanded C&P line. West of Ft. Wayne the NKP line could be eliminated.
In the 1950's. PRR/N&W/NKP, the PRR and N&W is a no brainer as the PRR was the majority stock holder and similar in operation and commodities. Adding the NKP the "Pennsylvania Western" would of resulted in a more competitive route along the Great Lake region and direct route west to Chicago on a now expanded C&P line. West of Ft. Wayne the NKP line could be eliminated.
I believe the actual proposed merger was PRR/N&W/Wabash. This is because the Pennsy had a controlling interest in both the other railroads.
The concept was a response to the C&O/NYC merger proposal but that was blocked by the ICC and PRR didn't press it's case.....
Ultimately of course, the disastrous Penn Central merger was allowed.
In Rush Loving's book "The Men who Loved Trains" he makes the claim that combining NYC/C&O and allowing the PRR proposal would have been far healthier for the Northeastern Railroad system than PC was and would have resulted in a situation somewhat akin to what exists now after NS and CSX split Conrail.
Yes, it is a puzzle. I, too, have often wondered why there was such reluctance to pare off portions of some merger partners if antitrust was an issue. The only examples I can think of before the 1980s are the split of the C&EI between Mopac and L&N in 1969 and the first major shortline spinoffs related to Conrail in 1976.
Andrew Falconer The Milwaukee Road should have had to have been merged into another railroad by 1975, before the maintenance dropped-off.
The Milwaukee Road should have had to have been merged into another railroad by 1975, before the maintenance dropped-off.
Johnny
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
D.Carleton One merger that could have happened was C&NW and the MILW. Basically the corporate parent of C&NW offered the railroad to MILW. For whatever reason the MILW didn't bite. Imagine a Chicago, Milwaukee & North Western that got its act together and hung on long enough to be included into today's UP.
One merger that could have happened was C&NW and the MILW. Basically the corporate parent of C&NW offered the railroad to MILW. For whatever reason the MILW didn't bite. Imagine a Chicago, Milwaukee & North Western that got its act together and hung on long enough to be included into today's UP.
This more than likely wasn't on the mind of KCS at the time. But When BN opened up the Powder River Basin, with C&NW coming on board later. Wonder why KCS didn't try to buy or merge with C&NW. Since KCS ended up being a recipient of Powder River coal traffic. This would have given them they're own right of way plus the entire haul. Instead of relying on interchange with BN and C&NW. They could have just upgraded the Cowboy line. I'm sure that wouldn't have required much investment.
MILW wanted to merge with CNW, but mgmt cut maintenance below the level of sustainability to raise MILW's stock price and thereby assure they ran the merged RR. Don't know why the merger didn't happen, but by then MILW was in such bad shape it couldn't survive.
dakotafred UP-Rock Island before the RI had 10 years to fall apart. RI, whatever its historical missteps, had the population, agricultural and industrial centers, and would have gotten UP into Chicago 30 years before CNW did. Thank gummint for the likes of the Quad Cities, Iowa City, Newton and Des Moines enjoying branch-line status today. Little wonder I-80 is so busy through there.
UP-Rock Island before the RI had 10 years to fall apart. RI, whatever its historical missteps, had the population, agricultural and industrial centers, and would have gotten UP into Chicago 30 years before CNW did.
Thank gummint for the likes of the Quad Cities, Iowa City, Newton and Des Moines enjoying branch-line status today. Little wonder I-80 is so busy through there.
Those customers on the exRI that still use rail are probably better off with the IAIS then UP. It's not that IAIS provides better service, although it probably does, but that many of the customers probably don't have enough traffic to interest the UP.
Jeff
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
Murphy Siding A related quetion- Had the Southern Pacific / Santa Fe merger gone through, would it have succeeded in doing what its planners thought it would accomplish?
A related quetion- Had the Southern Pacific / Santa Fe merger gone through, would it have succeeded in doing what its planners thought it would accomplish?
Definitely, Rock Island - Milwaukee Road - Southern Pacific would have been a great merger, in my humble opinion. Possibly add in the D&RGW as a complete central corridor.
SD60MAC9500 Wabash+Frisco looks like a formidable line
Nickel Plate + GM&O might be another interesting combination
And add Rock Island to either this or the earlier mentioned Wabash+Frisco union, and you have some interesting possibilities. (super bridge)
NorthWest NKP+EL. The EL needed a bigger Midwestern network, the NKP access to New York City.
NKP+EL. The EL needed a bigger Midwestern network, the NKP access to New York City.
Yeah Erie did need a larger Midwestern presence. I had envisioned Erie merging with the Wabash instead of Delaware Lackawanna and Western. Giving it access to the Michigan auto industry and Wabash's (Used trackage rights across southern Ontario to reach Buffalo) Canadian traffic. I could see a Erie+Wabash+DT&I merger. The DT&I inclusion would give it a direct link to Detroit without a roundabout way. Plus access to southern Ohio coal.
Convicted One Here's one that I would have liked to see. Also, Erie/Milwaukee....the "throw away transcon".
Here's one that I would have liked to see.
Also, Erie/Milwaukee....the "throw away transcon".
Nice map :-). Wabash+Frisco looks like a formidable line. Midwest autos, steel and grain to the South. Not too mention serving oil and gas heavy Oklahoma and Texas.
They already cooperated on passenger service Buffalo-NYC; don't remember if they also did so on freight. (Have to revisit my John Rehor.) Bet NKP Guy would know.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Deggesty Did the ACL moves its headquarters from Wilmington to Jacksonville before the merger with the SAL? Whenever my mother mentioned writing for a pass, she always spoke of writing to Wilmington (my father worked in the Tampa Shops).
Did the ACL moves its headquarters from Wilmington to Jacksonville before the merger with the SAL? Whenever my mother mentioned writing for a pass, she always spoke of writing to Wilmington (my father worked in the Tampa Shops).
blue streak 1 Here in the southeast a puzzle was the ACL - SAL merger. Why SOU RR did not get some of the SAL has always been a puzzle. That would have given Florida 2 competing RRs instead of the CSX mostly and the independent FEC on east coast. .
Here in the southeast a puzzle was the ACL - SAL merger. Why SOU RR did not get some of the SAL has always been a puzzle. That would have given Florida 2 competing RRs instead of the CSX mostly and the independent FEC on east coast. .
Remember the context of time we are talking about. This all happened during the same era that Southern was fighting the Big John hopper car case essentially poking the ICC in the eye. ACL was a huge corporation headquartered in Florida and Tallahassee did not want to cross them. The city of Tampa did put up a fight but could not overcome Federal and State hubris. The argument was made that there was nor would ever be enough traffic in Central Florida, specifically west-central Florida, to justify two railroads. But the trackage requisition by Southern would not have been a gift; they would have to buy it. If the traffic didn't pan out then Southern would have been stuck with the losses and the petitions for abandonment.
Basically railroading in my part of the Sunshine State dried up over the fight for the principles of rate regulation embodied by Big John and I think of this every time I see the one preserved in Spencer. The regulatory bodies that were supposed to ensure balanced trade and the good of the public with indiscriminate fairness to all the parties involved failed miserably. Was the Big John victory worth the losses of a bad merger? We still have railroads over 50 years later and they are doing reasonably well and as a railroader I am grateful although sometimes it is bittersweet.
The proposed UP-Rock Island merger made a lot of operational sense but the other Midwestern Class 1's that connected UP with Chicago realized it would potentially kill a vital source of revenue and fought it tooth and nail. I personally believe the merger should have been approved..
The various railroads that co-operated in "Alphabet Route" freight service would have made an impressive system:
http://www.american-rails.com/alphabet-route.html
Missouri Pacific/D&RGW/Western Pacific is also an interesting idea although probably by now either BNSF or UP would have merged the system.
Given my druthers (and a big heap of hindsight) the SAL would have wound up under the Southern banner and ACL would have gotten the Central of Georgia. After that the L&N, which was already in the ACL camp, would have gotten its share of the Chicago & Eastern Illinois and Southern the Monon. It's not perfect but would have yielded a better balance than what did happen.
The NYC merged with SCL and L&N to make it possible to cover more territory.
The B&O and C&O taking over the GM&O since the future IC operators decided to dismantle most of the GM&O in the coming decades.
The PRR would have ended up being controlled and merged into the N&W and Southern Railway in the 1960's to keep operating.
Before the PC fiasco, C&O wanted to merge with NYC. ICC nixed it. If it had happened it would have created something close to what happened with the Conrail split, but C&O/NYC would have kept the entire water level route, which would have been a better balance than what NS eventually got.
Also, I would liked to have seen D&RGW kept out of UP, to at least give an impression of some competition in the central corridor.
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