Historical Railroad mergers you would have created

[Uncle Jake]

How about Northern Alberta Railways combined with BCRail. This would have provided competition for CP and CN for moving grain to Vancouver, BC, and also would have had somewhat large amounts of mineral and oil traffic.

[Anonymous]

I just happened to think of another:

The Southern and the Frisco.

[Btcaub]

I'll see your WP+DRGW merger, and add in the MOPAC/C&EI.  

 

It would have been a formidable competitor to the UP and the SP.

RGWP - Rio Grande, Western & Pacific

or

MRGP - Missouri, Rio Grande & Pacific

[Deggesty]

calzeph

Yes, there should've been more end to end mergers. The Central Pacific should've gone to the UP, rather than the SP and the D&RGW and the WP would've made an infinite amount of sense.

 

Yup, that was Mr. Gould's idea, along with the MoP, Wabash?, another road and an entrance into Pittsburgh.

[calzeph]

Yes, there should've been more end to end mergers. The Central Pacific should've gone to the UP, rather than the SP and the D&RGW and the WP would've made an infinite amount of sense.

[JONATHAN WALKER]

Myself, I'd consider MILWAUKEE ROAD + GTW + Canada Southern + Lehigh Valley L&HR + New Haven. That would give traffic access to a DIRECT East/West route from the Pacific thru Chicago and Detroit to NYC and Boston. A real port-to-port service. I'd get the MILW to electrify 'the Gap' in WA/ID and the GTW / Canada Southern to expand the Detroit River tunnel to double stack height (in both tubes). The Poughkeepsie Bridge would need strengthening, but this is all do-able with 'bottomless walets'.

[Andrew Falconer]

If Penn Central had not happened the Burlington Northern and New York Central could have merged to create a New York to Chicago to Seattle railroad.

[Convicted One]

BaltACD

but why did the B&O acquire the Chicago & Alton and then sell it to the Mobile & Ohio

 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the IRS had rejected B&O's claimed losses  incurred through C&A. So they spun it off in order to make their claims more tangible. (closure)

[carnej1]

An interesting merger that almost happened in the 1990's; KCS + Illinois Central (post-ICG)

 I also find some of the "alternative Conrail" mergers interesting; Mid Atlantic Rail Corporation (Reading, LV, CNJ, L&HR) and MARC-EL (the afformentioned roads + EL) although I realize either of these combinations would have been a weaker competitor compared to a PC only Conrail.

 I guess the idea of the Dereco (D&H,Reading, EL, B&M) becoming a combined system when the C&O/N&W merger fell through is in a similiar vein (or combined with the above MARC roads, etc)..

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

Another one that comes to mind; purely in response to the proposed Grand Trunk - Milwaukee Road combination, would have been SOO + ICG.  To make this one work, though, would have required SOO obtaining trackage rights over the then-CNW "Spine Line" mainline from Northfield down to Albert Lea where ICG still had trackage rights to from Glenville.

[BaltACD]

VGN Jess

Wasn't CSX corporate in Richmond for awhile?

In deference to Hays T. Watkins and then John Snow - after Snow took his golden parachute to become Sec. of Treasury and departed, it was moved to Jacksonville where the Operating Headquarters had been moved in 1987.

[SD60MAC9500]

BaltACD

Not a merger created, but why did the B&O acquire the Chicago & Alton and then sell it to the Mobile & Ohio thus creating the GM&O.

 

 

That is strange B&O did that. Would have made more sense to merge in the C&A. Since the C&A would have got them to Kansas City, MO. Then merge in the GM&O. 

[VGN Jess]

Wasn't CSX corporate in Richmond for awhile?

[BaltACD]

Not a merger created, but why did the B&O acquire the Chicago & Alton and then sell it to the Mobile & Ohio thus creating the GM&O.

[caldreamer]

The Pennsylvania Railroad and the Rock Island.  This would have given the Pennsylvania the northeast , but they would have gotten to Minneapolis, the gilf coast and all the way out to Denver. They would have connected not only in Chicago, but in Peoria and St Louis.,

[SD60MAC9500]

SALfan

 

 

SD60MAC9500

Anybody know why the Southern didn't go after the ACL? Or why it didn't pursue the Monon? Monon fits good with the Southern. Getting into Chicago looks as if it wasn't coveted by the SOU.

 

 

 

 

ACL was probably bigger than Southern even after Southern bought Central of Georgia.  Remember, ACL controlled L&N.  ACL and Southern were both larger and stronger than SAL.  Don't think the ICC would have agreed to a combination of Southern and ACL, because they were the two big players between the Appalachians and the Atlantic Ocean, south of Richmond.

 

Looking back Southern didn't need to merge in CofG. ACL would have been a better fit market wise extending Southern deeper into Florida tapping argiculture. While not locking them out due to a future SAL+ACL (Which need not happen in this scenario). Perhaps a condition of merging with the ACL. Southern could have divested itself of the; CofG, GS&F (Georgia Southern & Florida, which still exist as an NS subsidiary), and it's associated subsidiaries. The ACL inreturn sell its control of the L&N to the Seaboard.

 

P.S. The CofG, Georgia Southern & Florida was better fit for the IC anyway. Getting IC into Atlanta and Northen Florida. Would have made a great route for intermodal traffic from Chicago-Jacksonville.

[Uncle Jake]

Rail Barons is available from Rio Grande Games under its original name, Boxcars.

[dakotafred]

jeffhergert

So, how many of us have the old Avalon Hill game, "Rail Baron"?  I do, but haven't played it in years.

Jeff

 

A swell game, especially for railfans, altho the constant payoffs can get old. As with a lot of other board games, from Monopoly to Risk, you want to speed things up, and ensure everybody doesn't work his pet strategy game after game, by dealing some of the properties.

[Uncle Jake]

Kansas City Southern plus Cedar American Rail Holdings plus Iowa Interstate. I don't have any ideas for what it would be called though. Interstate International?

[jeffhergert]

So, how many of us have the old Avalon Hill game, "Rail Baron"?  I do, but haven't played it in years.

Jeff

[Uncle Jake]

Rock Island plus Riot Grande plus Western Pacific, with the Western Pacific name surviving.

[SALfan]

SD60MAC9500

Anybody know why the Southern didn't go after the ACL? Or why it didn't pursue the Monon? Monon fits good with the Southern. Getting into Chicago looks as if it wasn't coveted by the SOU.

 

ACL was probably bigger than Southern even after Southern bought Central of Georgia.  Remember, ACL controlled L&N.  ACL and Southern were both larger and stronger than SAL.  Don't think the ICC would have agreed to a combination of Southern and ACL, because they were the two big players between the Appalachians and the Atlantic Ocean, south of Richmond.

[SD60MAC9500]

Anybody know why the Southern didn't go after the ACL? Or why it didn't pursue the Monon? Monon fits good with the Southern. Getting into Chicago looks as if it wasn't coveted by the SOU.

[SALfan]

John Kneiling once proposed a MILW-EL merger, with the combined company shucking its common carrier obligation and all branches, then turning itself into conveyor belt for intermodal traffic.  Interesting idea, but don't think it would have ever happened.

[BOB WITHORN]

Well since GTW was CN adding the LV would be a logical east end

[SD60MAC9500]

[quote user="Los Angeles Rams 

 

3.  BN + ICG - To this day I still don't understand BN's preoccupation with Frisco. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

BN's reasoning for grabbing the Frisco had to do with manufacturing moving south. But yeah I agree with you. BN should have merged in IC, and left the Frisco. The addition of IC giving BN access to the Port of South Louisiana. Which captures over 60% of grain exports in the US. Then BN could also have courted the Missouri Pacific to grab a share of Gulf coast chemical traffic. UP wouldn't dominate the region as they do now. Or better yet the proposed merger between Santa Fe and Missouri Pacific that fell through. Santa Fe gains access to St Louis. Plus the chemical coast. The Texas Pacific could have went to the SP instead of MP

[Anonymous]

Los Angeles Rams Guy

It depends what time frame you're talking about but I can make my list nonetheless:

1.  Grand Trunk + Milwaukee Road - Still a bloody shame, IMHO, that this didn't go through.  Will always blame CNW for this one.

2.  UP + CNW + PRR - The "U.S. Highway 30 Merger".  Hey, two out of three ain't bad.

3.  BN + ICG - To this day I still don't understand BN's preoccupation with Frisco. 

4.  ATSF + NYC - In response to #2.

 

I've also been intrigued with the possibility of MILW + EL as F3A suggested or maybe even an ATSF + MILW + NYC combo.  

 

 

 

 

I'd modify your #1 to:  Milwaukee Road - Grand Trunk - CN - Lehigh Valley

[kgbw49]

Mr. Deggesty, yes, thumbs up on that! Let's pick those up also and beat Hunter Harrison to the punch! That will fill out our new transcontinental railroad - the Dismal Swamp & Moose Jaw! Thanks!

[Deggesty]

kgbw49

Soo Line + Wabash + Nickel Plate + Norfolk & Western + Southern + Reading + Erie + Pennsylvania + Canadian Pacific + Central of Georgia + Cincinatti, New Orleans & Texas Pacific

Maybe they would have solved the Chicago congestion problem several decades ago.

 

Since you named the SoRy and the CNO&TP, what about the Georgia Southern and Florida, the Alabama Great Southern, and the New Orleans and Northeastern? They were also in the Southern System. There were several other, smaller, roads that were affiliated with the Southern.

[kgbw49]

Soo Line + Wabash + Nickel Plate + Norfolk & Western + Southern + Reading + Erie + Pennsylvania + Canadian Pacific + Central of Georgia + Cincinatti, New Orleans & Texas Pacific

Maybe they would have solved the Chicago congestion problem several decades ago.