NS restructering Triple Crown

[avonlea22]

oltmannd

The intermodal terminal is on the west end of Rutherford yard.  The Triple Crown terminal is on the east end.

 

Yup, thats exactly were I was talking about. That whole East end is new and looks like it's set up for Road Railers. That's why I'm wondering why they would build all of that and then get rid of the Road Railers. If the plan is to eventually expand the intermodal, then it all makes sense.

[zugmann]

avonlea22

That whole East end is new and looks like it's set up for Road Railers. That's why I'm wondering why they would build all of that and then get rid of the Road Railers. If the plan is to eventually expand the intermodal, then it all makes sense.

Nope.  All that new stuff is for conventional intermodal. 

[Jim611]

I bet if the nation’s railroads, combined, had lengthened all sidings to 11,000 to 12,000 feet on all single track lines that had regular intermodal service, the cost would have been a fraction of the money spent increasing clearances to accommodate double stack cars. But I under how double stack evolved from Southern Pacific’s perspective.

I have to question the cost comparisons between spine cars and well cars. I did not find spine cars in either Gunderson’s or Trinity’s product list. All the spine cars I see are multi-purpose to accommodate containers or trailers. I would say that extra tare weight is added to handle trailers.

Gunderson has an 85 foot car designed for 40 & 20 containers whose tare weight per container is close to the spine car. But this car has to support about 50% of the payload in the center of the car. I think a spine car built exclusively for containers, with most of the payload weight near the wheels, could bring the tare weight close to the well car. But that is neither here nor there as the railroads aren’t going to make investments that would jeopardize their double stack investment.

[ericsp]

There used to be spine cars for COFC. They were in the NTTX 66000 series. Apparently they did not work as well as double stacks.

Trinity has built spine cars, http://www.railcarphotos.com/Search.php?SearchCarType=Spine+Car&SearchBuilder=Trinity&Search=Search. Gunderson has also built spine cars but the Gunderson product in the comparison was a well car.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Paul Milenkovic

[snipped - PDN] . . . I don't remember much of anything said [in the DeBoer book, PIGGYBACK and CONTAINERS - PDN] of Stedman side-transfer: given that I grew up on The Professional Iconoclast, I would remember anything substantive said pro or con."

. . .

The side-transfer system in Europe that is linked is intriguing -- I will have to study this more.

So somebody else read Kneiling and paid attention to him, eh ?  (In one column he had a CN photo of the Steadman system, and described it in several columns and articles.)  A few years back I looked up the 2 or 3 U.S. patents associated with it.  I also vaguely recall some affiliation with the U.K. (drawing in the NMRA's Bulletin back in the 1980's or so).  

The DeBoer book does mention, describe, and include a photo of the Canadian Steadman System (Stedman was used in 1 caption) on pages 59 and 60, together with a U.S. version - Railiner by Southern Car & Manufacturing Company, and a brief mention of an REA system that apparently used wire cages within a container.  DeBoer's comments and the end of this description about the efficiency of that system being killed by "the regulatory mind" echoes the views often expressed here by greyhounds.  (Mr. Milenkovic: Since you know of Kneiling and are not afraid to reference him, if you contact me off-line I'd be glad to scan and e-mail or mail those 2 pages to you.) 

The DeBoer book also has a set of equipment - capacity - cost tabulations on pages 172 - 173, similar to that by greyhounds in his previous post.   

The InnovaTrain ContainerMover system has some quirks.  First, it requires a special adaptor platform/ frame to be mounted on the car:

http://www.innovatrain.ch/en/containermover/wagenadapter/ 

That might be difficult to coordinate here in the US.  

More troublesome, it's limited to 20-ft. containers:

http://www.innovatrain.ch/en/containermover/ 

However, there are at least 3 roughly similar systems in use world-wide, which are capable of handling 40-ft. containers (but not 53-ft. ones, as far as I can ascertain) - in no particular order:

1. Swinglift: http://www.swinglift.co.nz/# and

 http://www.swinglift.co.nz/products.php?filter=1 

2. Steelbro:

 http://www.steelbro.com/products/sidelifters/sidelifter-models.html 

3. Hammar: http://www.hammarlift.com/ 

The eastern NS RoadRailer and other intermodal types terminal - Lehigh Valley Rail Management/ Beth-Intermodal - is only a few miles (20 mins.) from me, in Bethlehem, PA.  And Pennsylvania allows trucks hauling intermodal containers to have a GVW of 90,000 lbs., instead of just the usual 80,000.  Also, the adjoining industrial park notes that because all of its roads are private, there's no such weight limit on trucks running around inside of it to deliver to the warehouses and industries there.  If I was smarter or had more time and $, I'd come up with a business plan to do something with this . . . 

- Paul North. 

[samfp1943]

Paul_D_North_Jr wrote the following post 2 days ago:

 

Paul Milenkovic

[snipped - PDN] . . . I don't remember much of anything said [in the DeBoer book, PIGGYBACK and CONTAINERS - PDN] of Stedman side-transfer: given that I grew up on The Professional Iconoclast, I would remember anything substantive said pro or con."

. . .

The side-transfer system in Europe that is linked is intriguing -- I will have to study this more.

So somebody else read Kneiling and paid attention to him, eh ?  (In one column he had a CN photo of the Steadman system, and decribed it in several columns and articles.)  A few years back I looked up the 2 or 3 U.S. patents associated with it.

Just to add a note to this discussion of other Contaqiner/Trailer loading systems, in use in UK and or European Railways:

Transporting Complet T/T units over Brenner Pass:

@ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCoSD-2-oPY

[samfp1943]

To add some information to the preceeding post of Paul North :

Here is a link to a European System called "Cargo Beamer" [ Would seem to need an investment in a  dedicated fixed loading system. See link @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ugx87dSmBg

And this system called " Megaswing": See link @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIwXPvGXnho

And in this video, the loading of T/T units (combinations) onto flt cars for transport over Brenner Pass [Note: the 'chocks' used to hold and position the equipment on the cars]  @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCoSD-2-oPY

and similarly: @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvZNd-S7Re8

[Jim611]

Roadrailer Grave Yard or Pit Stop to a Second Career as a Road Trailer?

Here are several thousand Triple Crown trailers being stored at the former International Harvester location in Fort Wayne. Are they going to be scrapped, or will they become road trailers? Due to their age and higher tare weight, they probably don’t have much value.

The track in the foreground is NS, former Union Belt of Fort Wayne. The second track was added years ago to keep from parking Triple Crown trains on the main lines. The track runs between the ex Wabash mainline and Triple Crown yard , ex PRR Piqua yard.

　

http://www.fwarailfan.net/community/download/file.php?id=5180&t=1

http://www.fwarailfan.net/community/download/file.php?id=5181&t=1

[ATSFGuy]

When were the roadrailers first introduced?

[samfp1943]

ATSFGuy

When were the roadrailers first introduced?

 

Not an easily answered question. The concept {Highway trailers, equipped with a set of rail wheels-and their hardware}  I think can be traced back into the 1950's when C&O started providing this equipment on its passenger trains in Michigan, to haul merchandise(express?) and mail.  This type of 'road/rail' IIRC lasted into the late 1960's.  

 Also I think the term 'Road/Railer' {May or maynot have been a copywrited term for Wabash Trailer Company of Lafayette, Indiana (?) at least they were making Road Railer Trailers in the late 1980's, then bought the system in the early 1990's}     Anyway, at some time in  the 1960's (?) North American Van Line of Ft. Wayne got into the Freight business, and was involved, I think with Road/Railers out of their Corporate HQ in Ft. Wayne(?).   I recall seeing them around that area in the early 1970's. 

   NAVL sold out the technology and name/ to Norfolk Southern which created the "Triple Crown Service" in about the late 1980's(?)     By that time the R/R Trailer Systems had been through versions from Mark I to V . As they sought on how to deal with the added weight of the railroad wheels attached to the trailers [tareweight]. 

ATSF Guy: Hope this will help. bear in mind my dates and times may be a little fuzzy, but I think overall may be close and accurate.

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I do remember seeing early Roadrailers (usually one or two) on the back of the "Pere Marquettes" in the mid-1960's.

Bi-Modal Corporation revived the concept in the late 1970's and obtained the necessary amendments to the Safety Appliance Act to allow them to run in regular service without extensive modifications.  The design may have been licensed to Wabash National some time after that.