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Amtrak Wreck in Philadelphia

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Posted by nyc#25 on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 3:03 PM

The railroads must get an extention on PTC because the technology

had NOT been fully deveolped.  That's why it's such a stupid deadline!

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 2:09 PM

blue streak 1

Part of the NEC corridor improvement plan figure 16 show Morris - Frankford interlocking as being improved to 160 MPH  MAS which includes this curve.

http://amtraknec.devcloud.acquia-sites.com/sites/default/files/2012%20Amtrak-Vision-for-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf

 

 

 

There are quite a few curves with speed restrictions in that segment.  The 160 doesn't mean that all those curves would be straightened, I think.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 2:00 PM

vsmith
Latest news reported the train was traveling at 107mph before it derailed.
 

Heard 106, but either way, that makes it PTC preventable.  Think RRs will get an implementation delay waiver now?

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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:56 PM
Latest news reported the train was traveling at 107mph before it derailed.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:48 PM

It is being reported that the curve was limited to 50 mph.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:45 PM

The curve turns approximately 60 degrees . It is approximately 1500 feet straight line from point of entry to point of exit. No way will that curve be 160 MPH.

Norm


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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:42 PM

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:33 PM

blue streak 1

Part of the NEC corridor improvement plan figure 16 show Morris - Frankford interlocking as being improved to 160 MPH  MAS which includes this curve.

http://amtraknec.devcloud.acquia-sites.com/sites/default/files/2012%20Amtrak-Vision-for-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf

 

 

 

I read that and I do not believe that 160 MAS means that the curve itself will necessarily be 160 mph.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:30 PM

pkazmir

The locomotive is sitting upright, with a chunk taken out of the right side of the nose...

 

Did anyone notice the rightside windshield. The right side has a couple of fractures in it. Rock hits during the wreck?

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:22 PM

On CNN, an NTSB person said the current speed limit there is 50 mph.  Although the controller should have automatically reduced the speed (100 mph) if the engineer failed to, it did not sufficiently.  Also, no inward facing cab video by union agreement.   Clearly, that will change.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:08 PM

Here is NY Daily news gallery photo gallery of the accident.  The first picture is an overview of the passenger cars.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/amtrak-train-derails-gallery-1.2220132

 

Rgds IGN

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:06 PM

Part of the NEC corridor improvement plan figure 16 show Morris - Frankford interlocking as being improved to 160 MPH  MAS which includes this curve.

http://amtraknec.devcloud.acquia-sites.com/sites/default/files/2012%20Amtrak-Vision-for-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf

 

 

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:46 PM

Excerpt from Wall Street Journal

An Amtrak train involved in a fatal crash here appears to have been traveling at more than 100 miles an hour as it entered a sharp curve where it derailed Tuesday night, killing at least seven people, according to two people with knowledge of the investigation.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Excessive+Speed+Probed+in+Amtrak+Train+Crash+in+Philadelphia

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Posted by diningcar on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:13 PM

Another Amtrak engineer has said to some of his acquaitances that he would bet his next paycheck that speed is the issue.

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:13 PM

Another body discovered; death toll up to 7.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:00 PM

I think this is a correct consist:

Loco ACS64 number 601 

Business class 81528

Coach 82776 (quiet car)

Coach 82644

Cafe 43346

Coach 82761

Coach 82797

Coach 82981

The Business class car appears to be the most heavily damaged.  This is my best attempt at a description of the consist.  Additional information or corrections welcome.

Tom

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:57 AM
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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:52 AM

Wizlish,

Philly ABC affiliate has photos here:

http://6abc.com/news/photos-amtrak-train-derailment-in-port-richmond/718272/#gallery-7

Includes a photo of the loco in it's entirety, showing the opposite (left) side. (Does also show the front right damage too corner.) 

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:43 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/us/amtrak-train-derails-crash-philadelphia.html     

The NEC Regional crash was at the same site (Frankford Jct.)  as the 1943 Congressional Limited, killing 79.

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Posted by Wizlish on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:22 AM

pkazmir

The locomotive is sitting upright, with a chunk taken out of the right side of the nose...

I think that's just the plastic fascia around the lights.  The curved plate at the bottom of the opening seems undented, and I think the lens of the visible light is unbroken, so this is probably not more than a casual shock or impact.

I presume that the actual collision-safety plate 'cab' structure is behind the nose and fascia, and is also undamaged.  Someone with Photoshop might be able to process the dark image to see if there's any detail; I've never seen a picture of an ACS-64 with the fascia uninstalled but the underlying structure complete -- I'm sure somebody has one, or has a diagram or drawing showing the crash-resistant structure in the ends.

Is there a good picture of the 'other end' of the motor, or of the sides?  I'm still trying to figure out how this could happen without overspeed.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:16 AM

BaltACD

 

 
blue streak 1

Something that needs investigation.  Several ear witness reports stated that the train's engineer made a series of short horn blasts very shortly before the accident.  This will be an important clue if true.  Could have been engineer saw something.

Found it interesting that motor (# 601 ) was not damaged enough that the headlight was still operating.

 

I don't know if Amtrak engines are video equipped - many freight engines these days (all new ones being delivered) have forward facing videos that record on a 72 hour loop.

 

Also read report that SEPTA train only 3 minutes ahead had it's windshield broken by a projectile of some sort.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150514_SEPTA_train_hit_by_projectile_before_Amtrak_crash.html

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:15 AM

NorthWest

Nope, ACS-64 was in the lead. The utterly mangled (first in consist) car hit the catenary pole broadside, taking down the pole. Hopefully it was empty, as they sometimes are with low passenger loads. 

 

Some of the passenger quotes led me to think that the first car was the quiet car.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:14 AM

vsmith
Does anyone know if the engine was in push mode with a cab car in the lead? It looks like one of the passenger car derailed and then hit something nasty, that's why its so mangled. I was wondering if that might have been the lead cab car. Real mess and a tragedy.
 

No cab car on Wash to NYP trains.  Only on Keystone service trains.  601 was leading

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:13 AM

BroadwayLion

Report seen by LION suggests PTC in effect westbound, not yet eastbound.

 

ROAR

 

Amtrak has there ACESES system which is sort-of PTC.  It has two parts.  The first is just regular-old PRR style cab signal with a second layer of aspects from a second carrier frequency.   This has been in place for years on the whole corridor.  The second part is civil speed and enforced stop stuff.  That uses transponders and dead reckoning (and some data radio stuff) to enforce civil speeds, work zones and stop signals.  As of last fall, this was only in place east of New Haven.

I don't know how it could be in place in only one direction on NEC south tracks that are signalled in both directions.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:03 AM

Randy Stahl

These cars have ECP brakes ?

 

.

They had EP braking when built but it was removed...  but that's not really what you're getting at...Devil

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:30 AM

This was a new AMTK unit, it should have had a forward view.

ROAR

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:19 AM

blue streak 1

Something that needs investigation.  Several ear witness reports stated that the train's engineer made a series of short horn blasts very shortly before the accident.  This will be an important clue if true.  Could have been engineer saw something.

Found it interesting that motor (# 601 ) was not damaged enough that the headlight was still operating.

I don't know if Amtrak engines are video equipped - many freight engines these days (all new ones being delivered) have forward facing videos that record on a 72 hour loop.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:17 AM

Report seen by LION suggests PTC in effect westbound, not yet eastbound.

 

ROAR

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:14 AM

seppburgh2
CNN has had the 'experts' out discussing the rail conditon. The 'experts' have has point the discussion towards the poor conditon of the track due to the many trains and a few tank trains. The expert blamed the poor rails on the "decline of the rail industry" and that no steel mill is interested in making 'heavy rail.'

 

CNN does not *have* experts, they have third rate highschool dropouts as "reporters" who have agendas rather than facts.

 

Don't bother me with facts, I have an agenda to fill!

 

ROAR

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:10 AM

Something that needs investigation.  Several ear witness reports stated that the train's engineer made a series of short horn blasts very shortly before the accident.  This will be an important clue if true.  Could have been engineer saw something.

Found it interesting that motor (# 601 ) was not damaged enough that the headlight was still operating. 

 

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