Thanks for the link (to the "Touch")
Having been in the position of hiring for many years (not recently though) I must say that much of that advise applies to any job applicant, railroad related or otherwise.
most of that should be 'no brainer' but......
I find the time I spend on my layout reinvigorates.. lack of energy is often due to stress and worry. The layout takes that away for me. And after an hour or so I'm ready to rock and roll on more important survival stuff.
Randy Stahl I think I have all of the equipment to do it, all I gotta do is finish building it but time is hard to come by usally.
I'd like to build a small shelf layout featuring my own made-up roadname, but finding time or energy (and the combination of both) is a lost cause anymore.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
That's interesting.. my own interests and preferences are likewise influenced by my teen years, also the mid to late 70s. My own modelling efforts are generally from the perspective of a kid on a bike just watching the trains go by... nothing more complex than single track running through bucolic landscapes.
Like I said , there are days when I don't want to even see or hear a train. Then there are days when I do enjoy model operating sessions. I like my plan of running the entire 1949 passenger train schedule from the Milwaukee road. I think I have all of the equipment to do it, all I gotta do is finish building it but time is hard to come by usally.
Ulrich Perfectly understandable as work is work and not always fun. I like trucks too but somewhat less so after driving one for 10 hours straight. I would bet that there aren't many professional railroaders who enjoy model railroad operating sessions for that reason.. would feel too much like work.
Perfectly understandable as work is work and not always fun. I like trucks too but somewhat less so after driving one for 10 hours straight. I would bet that there aren't many professional railroaders who enjoy model railroad operating sessions for that reason.. would feel too much like work.
I do, or rather did as my model railroad is down due to moving, more paperwork on my model railroad than I do at work on the real thing.
My modeling was/will be again circa 1978, when train crews handled more of the paperwork. While most modellers try to simulate the jobs and operating of the train/engine crews, I try to recreate more of a total view of the railroad. Focusing more on the dispatcher's, agent/operator's perspective.
I guess I'm trying to relive my teenage years when I was able to spend time at the local depot in TT/TO territory. That's what led me to pursue a railroad career.
Jeff
Many of the top level executives I've worked with are very much railfans and model railroaders. Not as many in the rank and file.
I think I started out a fan but that interest has waned over the years. Some days I don't even want to see a train.
Randy
It must also depend on how one presents oneself. I can't imagine an employer turning away a qualified prospect because he/she happens to be interested in the work!
I've heard from some of the younger railfans on Facebook that it's better to act like they don't really care that much about trains or they might not get hired. But one started working for BNSF a few months ago as conductor trainee and now he's posting pics and saying things about how much he enjoys the trains. His buddy got hired by NS for same type of job and he keeps a very low profile, told us to not tag him any longer in train pics and he shares nothing, he did create a fake profile for some railfanning pics and comments. So it must depend on the RR. Years ago, it didn't matter, Dad was a railfan and had no problems with taking me around the yards where he worked, can't try that today. But he married a railfan too, so that helped. With other guys he worked with, it was just a paycheck, they cared nothing about trains and never even used their pass privileges to travel. I'm glad Dad did. A friend has hubby who works as yard hostler for UP and he doesn't care about trains either, she hangs out with friends who do enjoy railfanning, because he don't.
carnej1 He also explains why it is generally not wise to identify oneself as a fan during the hiring process..
Normally that was how it was done. But lately, it seems more railfans than not. Even if they tried to hide it, a simple facebook search would yield many railfan photos.
Not that it matters, just interesting to see how successful this group is. I know since my own railfanning interest have pretty much declined into the abyss, I really am losing all interest in this industry.
A well known (in railfan publication circles) professional railroader/author wrote an article a few years ago offering advice to railfans looking for a career as train crew:
http://www.railroad.net/articles/columns/hottimes/hottimes_20060602.php
He makes the point that;in his opinion, many folks with a railfan backround make great professional railroaders; but it's not a vocation for everyone. He further states that to work safely and effectively some of one's fan inclinations must be pust aside while on the job.
He also explains why it is generally not wise to identify oneself as a fan during the hiring process..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Norm48327 schlimm tree68 Can't say as I've ever run into anyone who "fans" wait staff at restaurants... I think several restaurant chains were based on that premise, at least to a major degree: Hooters, Tilted Kilt, to name two. I believe that fits the category of "sex and the city"...
schlimm tree68 Can't say as I've ever run into anyone who "fans" wait staff at restaurants... I think several restaurant chains were based on that premise, at least to a major degree: Hooters, Tilted Kilt, to name two.
tree68 Can't say as I've ever run into anyone who "fans" wait staff at restaurants...
I think several restaurant chains were based on that premise, at least to a major degree: Hooters, Tilted Kilt, to name two.
I believe that fits the category of "sex and the city"...
A better match for typical rail fanac is probably the Bruster's ice cream chain, which frankly has a cruel (if highly interesting) uniform policy and environment for its employees. You never know exactly what you'll find in one, but it's always worth the seeing...
I believe that fits the category of "sex and the city".
Duckin' and runnin'.
Norm
tree68Can't say as I've ever run into anyone who "fans" wait staff at restaurants...
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Some "sports" are spectator sports, and some aren't. Then there's the activities that don't seem to fit either category, and confuse the heck out of anyone not involved in said "sports."
Heck, some folks can't figure out why people watch {name your sport}. Something as esoteric as railfanning can really throw people for a loop.
There are plenty of other activities that people would consider strange to "fan." Can't say as I've ever run into anyone who "fans" wait staff at restaurants...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Wizlish schlimm As to the discussion at hand, my observation within my own field (as well as what some patients have told me about their own careers) corresponds with that of others, especially Balt's. Folks entering are pretty naive and go through a shakedown period in which they either start to figure out the basic parameters or else they wash out. I think there's been concern expressed by railroads that at least some kinds of 'foamer' fandom are perceived as dangerous to hire, in that they might be distracted from a strict focus on safety if they see, say, a rare 'catch' passing them, or get distracted with some other interest. If I remember correctly, some of the 'advice' to potential new hires is to avoid saying anything at all about being a 'railfan' even if you are asked that question directly -- make it clear that SAFETY is your "first, last, and always" priority. Do we have information on how well different kinds of railfan 'do' after they're hired, or how their interest changes with 'time in'?
schlimm As to the discussion at hand, my observation within my own field (as well as what some patients have told me about their own careers) corresponds with that of others, especially Balt's. Folks entering are pretty naive and go through a shakedown period in which they either start to figure out the basic parameters or else they wash out.
I think there's been concern expressed by railroads that at least some kinds of 'foamer' fandom are perceived as dangerous to hire, in that they might be distracted from a strict focus on safety if they see, say, a rare 'catch' passing them, or get distracted with some other interest. If I remember correctly, some of the 'advice' to potential new hires is to avoid saying anything at all about being a 'railfan' even if you are asked that question directly -- make it clear that SAFETY is your "first, last, and always" priority. Do we have information on how well different kinds of railfan 'do' after they're hired, or how their interest changes with 'time in'?
schlimmAs to the discussion at hand, my observation within my own field (as well as what some patients have told me about their own careers) corresponds with that of others, especially Balt's. Folks entering are pretty naive and go through a shakedown period in which they either start to figure out the basic parameters or else they wash out.
zugmannSince it's been slow on here, maybe this will start some discussion. Or not.
You sure got that right.
As to the discussion at hand, my observation within my own field (as well as what some patients have told me about their own careers) corresponds with that of others, especially Balt's. Folks entering are pretty naive and go through a shakedown period in which they either start to figure out the basic parameters or else they wash out. And the learning curve continues on through (and even past) retirement. It must, as most fields are not static.
When it comes to hiring new people for field level jobs (Train & Engine, MofW, Mechanical (both Car & Locomotives) and Signal Dept - the people most likely to become a reliable employee are those that come from a family history that ingrains in them what the requirements of the jobs are all about before they set official foot on the property. Having seen what the job(s) require of their family members (this includes the extended family of in-laws and cousins).
The biggest 'turn off' to those coming in off the street (including railfans) is the time the jobs actually require - time that is not 8-5 Monday through Friday.
I am a 3rd generation railroader, with both my father and grandfather polishing the rails before me. I thought I knew a lot about railroad operations when I hired out - boy was I wrong. What's more, I am still learning today - the learning curve in railroad operations is never ending (and I am a whole lot closer to the date of pulling the pin than I am to my hiring date).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Just to add a little to Tom's (ACY) comment, the potential advantage for a fan is the broader knowledge he may bring to the job beyond the immediate position. This particularly applies in the office environment, where all too many staff have little exposure to the actual operating railroad. Most important, as Tom says, remain humble and learn. A lot of naive preconceptions of the amateur railfan will need to be adjusted as he or she discovers the reality of the railroad business and operation constraints.
John
zugmann Is there nobody else wants these jobs? Or do they figure these young guys are in it for the long -haul? Good idea to hire the fandom, or not? Thoughts? Discussion? Comments? Insults? Does anybody even care?
I figure that what the railroads expect are healthy, honest, employees who are willing to make the personal commitment to scheduling, willing to be trained, and willing to play by the rules, while remaining substance abuse free, and alert.
Each one of those expectations I mentioned is a potential hurdle that can trip up a valued employee. i think the railroads have come to the realization that the net effect is a constant thinning of the herd, which they are always going to have to deal with. I don't think they really care if an employee has "too much" ambition, so long as he otherwise fits their mold.
Another way to say it is "they want raw meat which they can train, who will remain obedient as well as diligent. And any who can't or won't... will not last very long".
I've seen good new-hires and bad ones. Some of each are railfans. Some of each aren't. The successful railfans are the ones who can use their prior railroad knowledge to advantage, while remaining humble enough to learn from the veterans. In general, being a railfan can be a definite advantage because there are some railroad basics that the employer doesn't have to teach. One problem is the veteran employee or supervisor who feels threatened by the railfan's knowledge. This can happen if the veteran or supervisor is insecure and possibly not as qualified as we would like. That can go badly for the railfan employee. I've not seen it often, but it does occur.
Tom
I only know of a few rail fans that have hired out with us over the last 10 years or so. The common denominator with many new hires now for us seems to be ex-military or those still in the Guard or reserves.
One has to decide not to. We only get one life (as far as I know anyway)..
Ulrich As we all know, the world is becoming ever more competitive... having that special interest might just be the edge you need to go from just getting by to earning outstanding pay doing something you enjoy doing.
They'll mostly become pretty jaded pretty quick. Hard not to in this line of work.
Still though, an above average interest is generally an advantage, not an impediment to success. Sure, young people may have a naive and overly optimistic viewpoint, but I much prefer that to the "life sucks" mentality that so often permeates older generations. Personally I'd rather hire a naive 20 year old who isn't jaded over someone experienced who is run down and pessimistic.
Sure, people starting out are generally naive, but they seem to be much less so today than when I was their age back in the 70s. When I sent my resume out to railroads in 1979 I fully expected that I'd be choosing among offers within weeks. That an American railroad wouldn't hire a 17 year old Canadian with no experience never even crossed my mind... why wouldn't Missouri Pacific or Conrail hire me? But to their credit, each and every one of them responded to me even when, in retrospect, doing so was a complete waste of their time.
As we all know, the world is becoming ever more competitive... having that special interest might just be the edge you need to go from just getting by to earning outstanding pay doing something you enjoy doing.
I was an 18 year-old super railfan when I hired on 3 years ago, now I am a 21 year-old super railfan. I don't think whether you're a foamer or not has anything to do with whether or not you will be good at the job; everyone has something they are passionate about, the only question should be can they look past that to understand and pay attention to their immediate surroundings and job. But I am surprised that you are running into such a high percentage of new hire foamers Zug, since in my experience the railroad (CN at least) prefers to stay away from them, I suspect out of fear they will get too distracted to pay attention to work, and they are usually all too happy to mention their passion in the job interview. I disagree with this, but I guess that's why I'm not in HR.
For my personal experience, while being a railfan is what caused me to look into hiring on in the running trades, the more I learned about the job before and after starting is what made me serious about as a career and is what has kept me here 3 years in. The excellent pay and benefits and steady work with minimal threat of layoffs (I also have BRCF just in case of suspension/firing) in the oilfield-dominated economy of Western Canada make this a good fit for me. I can also deal with the long irregular trips since in exchange for that I wind up spending far more time around home than I do at work. I would note however that when I hired on I deliberately left out my rabid interest in all things railroad, but I DID mention that I was a volunteer at my local Railway Museum and already had a bit of experience with actual moving equipment, which I believe scored points in my favour.
On the other hand, I know of several foamers who have been fired or are in the process of being fired from CN, but this has nothing to do with their railfan intrests, it is because they don't have good heads on their shoulders and don't get just how much harm they can do (and have done) with moving equipment. There are many others with the same lacksidasy attitude who have no interest in trains whatsoever, and still meet the same bitter end to their career.
For a final answer to your question, I believe that someone's postion on the foamer scale is not relevent when deciding whether or not to hire them, they should be judged on their intelligence, spatial awarness, grace under pressure and all the other things which are actually relevant to this job.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I don't really know the answer, but it seems to me someone with fantastic/sentimental notions could have them dashed rather more easily...and early...than someone who had no real expectations other than being able to pay bills and keep a family. It does depend on one's history, experience, self-discipline, personality, and yes...character. A genuine dislike for people nearby, those with whom one must interact daily, or with other characteristics of the work or its compensation, will soon kill any hankering to stay.
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