I wonder if sometimes a large RR buys a regional rail line just so a competing large RR doesn't buy it? Routing of trains through or around a town, city or state to me could be like a chess game. How many trains get purposely routed in a way to avoid going through states with higher taxes on their right of way like my home state of Minnesota?
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
I am not sure how attractive intermodal out of Cedar Rapids would be. If the freight is eastbound, then CN would rail it 300 miles to Chicago where it would have to do the Windy City Shuffle. Ditto southbound, although CN could possibly rail it to Memphis and beyond.
How about westbound? Rail it to Omaha and then interline to UP or BNSF? I dont see that working out. Do either BNSF or UP have intermodal service in Omaha?
Meanwhile in Cedar Rapids you have CRST and Heartland Express, both of which are outstanding truckload carriers.
Thanks for all the replies to the original question. I look at this line on the map and it makes no sense for CN's overall picture. There is no density. Yes, there are some ethanol trains and it was mentioned there is a coal movement.
I think ultimately the value of the line is as a agricultural line (already doing that) and as a secondary routing for UP and BNSF. If BNSF gets too busy with their oil business they could run a couple of trains via the CN from Galena Jct to Chicago.
A couple of years ago CN traded it's Elsdon Sub in Chicago to CSX for a needed piece of CSX track in Memphis. I can see CN doing something to that effect to gain operating leverage...but where would that be?
Speaking of lines on the map...how significant is St. Louis to CN these days? Isnt that a similar situation to the Iowa Line?Ed
The Iowa Northern is a short line. The map shows their territory. Both the Iowa Northern and CN serve Cedar Rapids and Waterloo.
http://www.iowanorthern.com/communities/
What difference is there in the Iowa Northern visa vi CN in marketing and obtaining online business?
greyhounds Victrola1 What are the traffic prospects between Albert Lea and Waterloo? When you talk about Iowa and nearby locations you're primarily talking about food and other ag products (ethanol). Additionally, you've got farm supplies such as fertilizer and chemicals. There is some non agricultural opportunity. But primarily it's food and ag related freight. The big Kahuna for CN's Albert Lea line is Hormel in Austin, MN. The processing capacity at Austin is 19,000 hogs per day. That's a lot of Spam, bacon and pork chops. Austin is 23 miles east of Albert Lea which is an easy intermodal dray. At Waverly, IA (on the line) Nestles has a production facility for dry, condensed, and evaporated dairy products. I don't know the output of the facility. There are other opportunities on the line, but I'd have to reasearch them. On the Cedar Rapids line the city of Cedar Rapids itself is literally an untaped gold mine for intermodal freight. Quaker has what it bills as the world's largest cereal factory in Cedar Rapids. The volume shipped from this one facility is around 100 truckloads per workday. (and it all goes out by truck) In addition to Quaker, General Mills has a large cereal production facility in Cedar Rapids. This General Mills facility is being expanded. Although breakfast cereal consumption is declining, there is still a lot of opportunity in Cedar Rapids cereal freight. The business is there. What's needed is the determination and imagination to get it on the railroad at a profit.
Victrola1 What are the traffic prospects between Albert Lea and Waterloo?
When you talk about Iowa and nearby locations you're primarily talking about food and other ag products (ethanol). Additionally, you've got farm supplies such as fertilizer and chemicals. There is some non agricultural opportunity. But primarily it's food and ag related freight.
The big Kahuna for CN's Albert Lea line is Hormel in Austin, MN. The processing capacity at Austin is 19,000 hogs per day. That's a lot of Spam, bacon and pork chops. Austin is 23 miles east of Albert Lea which is an easy intermodal dray.
At Waverly, IA (on the line) Nestles has a production facility for dry, condensed, and evaporated dairy products. I don't know the output of the facility. There are other opportunities on the line, but I'd have to reasearch them.
On the Cedar Rapids line the city of Cedar Rapids itself is literally an untaped gold mine for intermodal freight. Quaker has what it bills as the world's largest cereal factory in Cedar Rapids. The volume shipped from this one facility is around 100 truckloads per workday. (and it all goes out by truck) In addition to Quaker, General Mills has a large cereal production facility in Cedar Rapids. This General Mills facility is being expanded. Although breakfast cereal consumption is declining, there is still a lot of opportunity in Cedar Rapids cereal freight.
The business is there. What's needed is the determination and imagination to get it on the railroad at a profit.
I can remember when both IC/ICG and then later CC operated intermodal out of Cedar Rapids. I don't recall what the actual volume was but there is definitely potential there - if CN knew how to go after it.
jeffhergert PS, the rumor resurfaced recently (told to us at a union meeting, the info coming from a regular meeting between union and service unit level managment) that the UP may be trying to purchase the CN/IC from Council Bluffs to Arion, IA again. It comes up every so often. Usually it's been said the CN wasn't interested, but that might be changing. I've heard of plans of consolidating the old IC and CNW yards in CB (they are side by side) and turning it into an arrival and departure yard for manifests to/from the north and east.
PS, the rumor resurfaced recently (told to us at a union meeting, the info coming from a regular meeting between union and service unit level managment) that the UP may be trying to purchase the CN/IC from Council Bluffs to Arion, IA again. It comes up every so often. Usually it's been said the CN wasn't interested, but that might be changing. I've heard of plans of consolidating the old IC and CNW yards in CB (they are side by side) and turning it into an arrival and departure yard for manifests to/from the north and east.
That would indeed be interesting if that were to happen. I've long advocated that the CN's Iowa Division mainline and the UP's "Overland Route" mainline should have been operated as a paired track arrangement DECADES ago. On the other hand, I would hate to see CN sell this to UP and leave the Council Bluffs/Omaha market. Big mistake there, IMHO.
schlimm jeffhergert the rumor resurfaced recently (told to us at a union meeting, the info coming from a regular meeting between union and service unit level managment) that the UP may be trying to purchase the CN/IC from Council Bluffs to Arion, IA again. It comes up every so often. Usually it's been said the CN wasn't interested, but that might be changing. I've heard of plans of consolidating the old IC and CNW yards in CB (they are side by side) and turning it into an arrival and departure yard for manifests to/from the north and east. Would that change the routing of some UP trains to the old, single-track (but in some stretches, in good shape) IC line to Chicago?
jeffhergert the rumor resurfaced recently (told to us at a union meeting, the info coming from a regular meeting between union and service unit level managment) that the UP may be trying to purchase the CN/IC from Council Bluffs to Arion, IA again. It comes up every so often. Usually it's been said the CN wasn't interested, but that might be changing. I've heard of plans of consolidating the old IC and CNW yards in CB (they are side by side) and turning it into an arrival and departure yard for manifests to/from the north and east.
Would that change the routing of some UP trains to the old, single-track (but in some stretches, in good shape) IC line to Chicago?
I doubt it. It would give UP a second track into Council Bluffs from the east. Normally there are only about 3 manifests and one local that go from Missouri Valley to CB. Bucking the eastward flow can cause those trains to sit for hours at Mo Valley waiting for a slot to go down. If they had a second route into CB, I could also see some westbounds going the "long way" to Fremont when there is heavy eastbound intermodal traffic coming the "short way" via Blair.
Jeff
Victrola1What are the traffic prospects between Albert Lea and Waterloo?
The old IC line from Waterloo, IA to Albert Lea, MN has been improved.
This line's days as a Twin Cities to Chicago partnership with the M&StL are long past. What are the traffic prospects between Albert Lea and Waterloo?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
greyhounds schlimm Judging by the typical consists, ethanol, oil and grain trains are the low-hanging fruit. Marketing and loose-car operations are apparently too taxing. It's more than that. The railroads tend to be less than adequate at market development. If someone shows up offering unit trains or even a new oil field a railroad can generally put together a service/ price/ equipment package for the opportunity. But aggregating several cutomers into a market opportunity requires an expertise that is gone from railroad marketing. It's not so much that they're avoiding work, it's that they don't know how to do the work. Second, railroads tend to be too risk adverse when it comes to marketing. A failure can doom a career. Well, that is not the way to do market development. You don't want a lot of failures, but if you have no failures you're not being agressive enough. These are part of a corporate culture that needs to change. But it's hard to change a corporate culture. So we are where we are.
schlimm Judging by the typical consists, ethanol, oil and grain trains are the low-hanging fruit. Marketing and loose-car operations are apparently too taxing.
It's more than that. The railroads tend to be less than adequate at market development. If someone shows up offering unit trains or even a new oil field a railroad can generally put together a service/ price/ equipment package for the opportunity. But aggregating several cutomers into a market opportunity requires an expertise that is gone from railroad marketing.
It's not so much that they're avoiding work, it's that they don't know how to do the work.
Second, railroads tend to be too risk adverse when it comes to marketing. A failure can doom a career. Well, that is not the way to do market development. You don't want a lot of failures, but if you have no failures you're not being agressive enough.
These are part of a corporate culture that needs to change. But it's hard to change a corporate culture. So we are where we are.
So true. Changing corporate or institutional culture [really hate that term] is very hard. Often easier in some sectors to start from scratch.
It's the class one mentality, that might be starting to filter into regionals, too. Possibly because no matter how good of service the regional/short line offers, once it's interchanged to another railroad, it's beyond that small railroads control.
They seem to pass up opportunities from smaller volume shippers, even where they already have yard engines or local freights already established. I think they even try at times to discourage (drive away) that type of business they already have.
Loose car/small block traffic is going to require more infrastructure, more equipment (locomotives) and more employees. I think all they see is the cost involved, not any money that they could make. I've always felt they want the cream off the top, but they don't want to milk the cow to get it.
schlimmJudging by the typical consists, ethanol, oil and grain trains are the low-hanging fruit. Marketing and loose-car operations are apparently too taxing.
It does seem a relaxed way of doing business in this hard-charging day. In other businesses, administration seems to raise the performance bar every year, and if lower management can't rise to the challenge, the administration will find somone who can.
Sounds as if people on the IC think they are semi-retired, odd behavior in the wake of Hunter Harrison.
greyhoundsIt all adds up to hundreds of truckloads per day.
Judging by the typical consists, ethanol, oil and grain trains are the low-hanging fruit. Marketing and loose-car operations are apparently too taxing.
Have to echo Greyhound's sentiments here as well as there is a TON of traffic potential on the CN's Iowa Division mainline. The secondary mainline from Manchester down to Cedar Rapids has seen traffic grow over the years which is good to see and, remembering how ICG let the Iowa Division mainline deteriorate in the early 80's before Jack Haley's purchase in 1985, it's definitely good to see that CN has brought the mainline and associated lines back up to standard. Now, if they would JUST go after some more traffic.....
I happened to talk with a guy who had done some consulting work for communities and industries wanting rail service after the IC bought it back. He said service for some smaller industries had deteriorated. That the CC&P was willing to work with them, the IC less so. (Even so, a couple of places that can be served either by UP or CN, usually send more business over the CN.)
There is grain and ethanol in western Iowa. There is a coal move, received from the BNSF at Sioux City, going to Williams IA. From there it's trucked to the municipal power plant at Ames, IA. (Used to be served direct by UP, but the plant can't take an entire train at once. It had to be yarded and then brought in 13 car blocks to the plant.)
The Sioux City line is busier than the Omaha line. Because they have to use the UP bridge, and the associated fees, they prefer to do most of their BNSF interchange at SC. The Omaha line normally only sees a local train. I see it fairly often. A big train is more than 20 cars on it.
Those packing plants may not be shipping fresh meat, although some frozen meat might be going by rail, they do ship by-products.
Once I was talking to the late Doug Hagestad at a Sandhouse meeting. Doug had been VP Marketing for the ICG. Our talk turned to the old Iowa Division and Doug said: "I'll never understand why Hunter bought it back." So, I guess someone is going to have to catch EHH in the right mood and ask him why he bought the line back.
The line does have traffic potential. The area served by the CN's Iowa line produces a very large significant share of the beef and pork consumed in, and exported from, the US. Virtually all this animal protein moves by truck. The railroad could be competitive for much of this freight. But getting someone interested at CN has proven problematic.
In addition to the meat, Iowa produces around 18% of the eggs in the US. These eggs are also produced in areas close to the CN and could move by rail. They all go by highway.
It all adds up to hundreds of truckloads per day.
I guess it's perceived as all too risky and unorthodox for anyone in CN's marketing department to bet their personal reputation and future on.
Illinois Central spun off its Chicago to Iowa line and then re-purchased the line in the mid 90s. I understood the reason for the spin off, it just didnt seem to fit in with the North -South basic railroad (I am sure they had kept the Meridian E-W line tho).
Does anyone have insight into this line and how it fits into the CN system? It just doesnt seem to generate much traffic with just one mainline movement in each direction. Is there more than meets the eye with this line (ethanol, coal, grain etc)?
I was in Western Illinois for a few days on business and pleasure trip in the Galena area and saw a couple of trains daily. The pull out of the Mississippi River Valley to Scale Mounds is pretty significant. Does anyone know the gradient %? The wife and I stumbled on a former IC depot at Council Hills Station, Il which is now a combination bar, museum, convenience store which is step back in history. I would recommend anyone in the area to stop in for a cold refreshment and a talk/tour with Diana, the proprietor....and if you enjoy fishing, the adjacent East Branch of Galena River is a good smallmouth river per Diana.
Any info on the line is appreciated.
Ed
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