Buslist overall Can tank car trains carry water economically? There has been a discussion on NPR about building a pipeline from the Mississippi River valley, which is flooded at times, to California, which is in the midst of a drought. The thinking is that water could be taken from the Mississippi region, where there is too much, to California, where there is too little. Instead of building a pipeline, could the “111” tank cars now being taken out of oil service be used to transport water between these two places? Obviously, if there was a wreck, water would be harmless How about people move from water poor regions to water rich regions?
overall Can tank car trains carry water economically? There has been a discussion on NPR about building a pipeline from the Mississippi River valley, which is flooded at times, to California, which is in the midst of a drought. The thinking is that water could be taken from the Mississippi region, where there is too much, to California, where there is too little. Instead of building a pipeline, could the “111” tank cars now being taken out of oil service be used to transport water between these two places? Obviously, if there was a wreck, water would be harmless
How about people move from water poor regions to water rich regions?
Not all of us have an entitlement mentality....
As I said before, there is less energy needed to get water from reverse osmosis with the newest membranes than pumping it over the Tehachapi's. Getting water from the Pacific Northwest or the Mississippi or Missouri rivers would be even more energy intensive.
- Erik
Paul_D_North_Jr Crude oil reportedly goes for about $6 to $12 per barrel for a haul of 1,000 to 2,000 miles. As the ratios are the same (1:2) for both sets of figures, let's use $6 for 1,000 miles. Since a barrel of oil is 42 gallons, that works out to $0.143 or 14.3 cents per gallon - just a fraction of the cost of bottled water in either 16 oz. or 1 gal. containers. ("Your Mileage May Vary") - Paul North.
Crude oil reportedly goes for about $6 to $12 per barrel for a haul of 1,000 to 2,000 miles. As the ratios are the same (1:2) for both sets of figures, let's use $6 for 1,000 miles. Since a barrel of oil is 42 gallons, that works out to $0.143 or 14.3 cents per gallon - just a fraction of the cost of bottled water in either 16 oz. or 1 gal. containers. ("Your Mileage May Vary")
- Paul North.
Paul, I think it'd be a big marketing hurdle to convince folks that Mississippi river water should demand the same prices as bottled water "from crystal pure mountain springs".
erikem As I said before, there is less energy needed to get water from reverse osmosis with the newest membranes than pumping it over the Tehachapi's. Getting water from the Pacific Northwest or the Mississippi or Missouri rivers would be even more energy intensive.
But I expect that it's not too energy intensive if it's a backhaul in which empty tank cars have to return from the Mississippi or Missouri rivers anyway. Unfortunately I suspect it's more a case of loaded oil trains from Texas or Montana going to places just shy of Los Angeles's oil fields, and possibly just shy of the mountains. Plus as others have pointed out we might need extra treatment to decontaminate water from an oil tanker's backhaul.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
gardendancePlus as others have pointed out we might need extra treatment to decontaminate water from an oil tanker's backhaul.
With the transition to new oil tankers, there will be a surplus of DOT 111s, once cleaned these can be dedicated to water. Besides, water and oil do not mix unless you are making mayonasse. But they do not transport mayonasse in tank cars anymore, ever since the Mexicans opened a draw bridge and sent a train of mayonasse in to the harbor. They Sinka de Mayo.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
NKP guy I think the very serious problem of water shortages out West could be allieviated, not by water trains, but by a suggestion I once saw offered by a hydrologist. Please take out your maps. The Great Lakes funnel into the St. Lawrence River not far from Massena, NY. At this point the fresh waters of the lakes start running into salt water. In other words, the fresh water from this point on gets "wasted." It is completely doable to build a pipeline or pipelines from Massena, NY to, say, California. Taking this water from the St. Lawrence River would not violate our (fine) treaties with the Dominion of the North and would turn millions of gallons of fresh water from a resource about to be wasted (salted) into a valuable, usable natural resource by our countrymen who need it and would pay for it. I can't imagine anyone seriously arguing the Atlantic needs more water to be salted. Is this a doable project? It depends. It would be to men like Theodore Roosevelt or Franklin Roosevelt, or men like Albert Norris or those who built the TVA. Dangers? Sure; imagine news reports saying, "Pipeline breaks: one million gallons of fresh water spills onto the Great Plains." Take a look at your maps. Then realize the paralyzed country we live in, and with a sigh turn the page as the West slowly burns up for yet another year....needlessly. Just a thought, If you pull water from the St. Lawrence just before the salt water takes over, wouldn't that cause the salt water to migrate upriver. Thus requiring the intake to be moved periodically?
I think the very serious problem of water shortages out West could be allieviated, not by water trains, but by a suggestion I once saw offered by a hydrologist. Please take out your maps.
The Great Lakes funnel into the St. Lawrence River not far from Massena, NY. At this point the fresh waters of the lakes start running into salt water. In other words, the fresh water from this point on gets "wasted." It is completely doable to build a pipeline or pipelines from Massena, NY to, say, California. Taking this water from the St. Lawrence River would not violate our (fine) treaties with the Dominion of the North and would turn millions of gallons of fresh water from a resource about to be wasted (salted) into a valuable, usable natural resource by our countrymen who need it and would pay for it. I can't imagine anyone seriously arguing the Atlantic needs more water to be salted.
Is this a doable project? It depends. It would be to men like Theodore Roosevelt or Franklin Roosevelt, or men like Albert Norris or those who built the TVA. Dangers? Sure; imagine news reports saying, "Pipeline breaks: one million gallons of fresh water spills onto the Great Plains."
Take a look at your maps. Then realize the paralyzed country we live in, and with a sigh turn the page as the West slowly burns up for yet another year....needlessly.
A Water Pipe? From New York to California?
LION does not think so, and this is because your LION knows better.
This is the inside of NYC Water Tunnel No. 3. It has been under construction since 1970 and it is supposed to be finished in 2020. It is about 20 miles long from the Croton Resivoir to Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn and Eastern Queens.
Fifty YEARS to build a tunnel 20 miles long and 500' deep through the bedrock of Manhattan, look at the size of that thing. All to serve just three counties. You cannot build that across the country. Most of the country does not have any bedrock to drill through. And you are going to serve southern California with this thing. Last time I looke there are more than three counties in couthern California.
Let me tell you, it is far cheaper and more efficient to build desalinization plants than to take this stuff across the country. And those plants can be built before the next ice age! Think about that. Instead of looking at a map, look at the engineering and costs involved. Even water by rail is a fantasy. Sad fact is water and California is an oxymoron.
More on the Water Tunnel is here and there.
Here is the Southwest Water Authority project in North Dakota. You can see that it is a big business, all sprouted up in the last 20 years, the largest pipes are 3' in diameter and were burried in one place on our own land. The Raw pipe passes through our land on its way to the treatment plant in Dickinson, and then returns in smaller 1' diameter pipes to the cities and towns as shown. It serves south west North Dakota. That is not a lot of people. You could put the entire population of Adams County on an IRT train in Queens, and the rest of the passengers on that train would not notice the difference.
There are pumping stations and resivour tanks all over the place. Cross Country, LION thinks not.
Please pass the Mayo.
When it comes to water - I don't believe any of us understand just how much water gets used in out daily lives. Every flush is 2 gallons. A shower???? A bath??? Running the dishwasher???? Using the washing machine per load???? Watering the lawn/plants???? Wash the car???? Brush your teeth???? Wash your hands???? Cooking????
I keep track of the petroleum that I use - for my two cars, race car and lawn mower that is approximately 2000 gallons a year, heating oil for the oil burner is approximately 550 gallons a year. My water bill isn't broken down into gallons, but I fully expect I use 10 or more times the gallons of water than I use of petroleum - and this is just home residential use for a single person - add in industrial and agricultural use and I doubt you could run enough water trains to Southern California to affect their real water supply.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Lion, that NYC water tunnel photo shows railroad tracks in the tunnel. Clearly they're planning to move the water by rail :)
gardendance Lion, that NYC water tunnel photo shows railroad tracks in the tunnel. Clearly they're planning to move the water by rail :)
Looks to be narrow gauge - new use for the DRGW narrow gauge steamers?
Only a Chicagoan would know what's really going on. Calling it a water tunnel is just a cover for building a New York version of the Chicago freight tunnels (40 Feet Below).
Dr D The Great Lakes are the largest consentrated supply of fresh water in the world. Pristine and untouched except by native Americans until the discovery and settlement of the North American Continent by European people just some 300 years ago. The pure runnoff of the glaciers of millions of years ago. Cool fresh water - oceans of it to play in! The mighty ocean liners could bathe in its beauty! Since that time much of it has been severely ravaged by industrial waste and farm chemical "run off." I remember in the 1969 when the Cuyahoga river in Ohio caught of fire from the oil pollution. It was the 13th time in 75 years and was the cause of the US Congress creating the EPA - Enviornmental Protection Act. Lake Erie could not be navagated because of the 25 foot high soap foam run off from public sewers that caused ships to churn the phosphate rich soap water into mountains of un navagatable of soap foam. Unlike constant sewer effluent runnoff into the lakes of the past, presently the City of Detroit sewer system - like other American cities - when it cannot handle the public waste just dumps the overflow into the lakes. Just like they do and have done in Lake Erie or Lake Michigan or Lake Superior. Yes Virginia, the bottom of Lake Erie has heavy metal concentration from industrial waste settled into the mud so many foot deep, that will take centuries to clear it out. And I'm not counting similar industrial run off from Duluth, Minnesota - Gary, Indiana - Milwaukee, Wisconson and Chicago, Illinois. At Port Huron, Michigan and the Canadian chemical plants, the Mercury level in the water and river bottom makes the game fish inediable. Michigan Department of Natural Resources is constantly warning game fishermen not eat more than a certain amount - several fish per year. Unfortunately Lake St. Clair is one of the best producing game fishing areas in the world - Muskellunge, Pike, Walleye, Perch, Bass, Sturgon all are damaged by the heavy metal chemical content found in their body fats. And why is it I see so many poor people in Detroit feeding on the game fish from the Detroit River? Of course, lets not forget that most famous of all toxic waste sights! The one we all live in mortal dread of - "The Love Canal" of Niagara Falls, New York! Its on the Niagara River just before the falls! The former city dump site and for Niagara Power Company and Hooker Chemical which set the very standard for public negligence. Residents of Niagara Falls were found to have highly abnormal birth defects - enlarged feet, hands, legs and heads, and a high miscarriage rate with mental retardation of children. The ground would not grow grass, flowers or any living thing - right where people were living in homes - with 55 gallon drums of chemicals working up from the ground and where residential foundations grew with indescribable black mould. This ground, this river so polluted with so many chemicals - today 50 years later it is still considered a "public health time bomb." If that was not enough - "Love Canal Two!" - brought to you by the same industrial neglegence - today in Detroit - a similar clean up is going on! Thats right boys and girls another large toxic spill in St. Clair Shores, Michigan in the 1970's when that nasty old PCB transformer oil - nasty dangerous Detroit Edison carcinogenic transformer oil was disposed of over a period of years by dumping it into the 10 Mile Canal of Lake St. Clair. Yes, that's right "It's the New Love Canal! all over again!" - for you and I as residents living in this recreational boating wonderland - us - we - you and I? - encountering high rates of cancers and mortality again! - and the property in that area is un marketable! - especially not if they find out! And our local excitement for this year will be watching the Federal govenment spend billions digging up the public streets in a huge clean up - hauling that nasty old toxic lake bed away! Because we so much enjoy living and playing in a toxic dump site that was once the campground of native peoples and French fur trappers like Cadillac. Ah! yes! what was once the boating play place for "rum running millionares of the 1920's" - with all the natural ambiance of the Detroit River industrial centrer for oil refineries, chemical production and steel production for the past 100 years! O mon dois! Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo in Ohio, and Sarnia, Hamilton, and Toronto, Ontario all helping add their 10% - "Oh water wonderland of the world!" O Mon Dois! ------------------------------- Yah thats right! ship that water to Califorina - the Valley will surely love it for irrigation and drinking water. Up till now we have only had to deal with Mexican workers watering the vegetables with human waste! And, Oh yah! - by the way when California gets it's share - well then? - how you gonna say no to Texas, Arizona, Mexico, Utah, Africa, Arabia? - And when you drain down that once pristine watershed of the Great Lakes - well what then? Let em die of thirst in California! - Want the water? - or what's left of it, go live in New York - cause we don't care how they "do it" in California!. People in Michigan got something to say about this too! It's our polluted cesspool and we ain't givin it up! Cause that's what they make shotguns for! Doc
The Great Lakes are the largest consentrated supply of fresh water in the world. Pristine and untouched except by native Americans until the discovery and settlement of the North American Continent by European people just some 300 years ago. The pure runnoff of the glaciers of millions of years ago. Cool fresh water - oceans of it to play in! The mighty ocean liners could bathe in its beauty!
Since that time much of it has been severely ravaged by industrial waste and farm chemical "run off."
I remember in the 1969 when the Cuyahoga river in Ohio caught of fire from the oil pollution. It was the 13th time in 75 years and was the cause of the US Congress creating the EPA - Enviornmental Protection Act. Lake Erie could not be navagated because of the 25 foot high soap foam run off from public sewers that caused ships to churn the phosphate rich soap water into mountains of un navagatable of soap foam. Unlike constant sewer effluent runnoff into the lakes of the past, presently the City of Detroit sewer system - like other American cities - when it cannot handle the public waste just dumps the overflow into the lakes. Just like they do and have done in Lake Erie or Lake Michigan or Lake Superior.
Yes Virginia, the bottom of Lake Erie has heavy metal concentration from industrial waste settled into the mud so many foot deep, that will take centuries to clear it out. And I'm not counting similar industrial run off from Duluth, Minnesota - Gary, Indiana - Milwaukee, Wisconson and Chicago, Illinois.
At Port Huron, Michigan and the Canadian chemical plants, the Mercury level in the water and river bottom makes the game fish inediable. Michigan Department of Natural Resources is constantly warning game fishermen not eat more than a certain amount - several fish per year. Unfortunately Lake St. Clair is one of the best producing game fishing areas in the world - Muskellunge, Pike, Walleye, Perch, Bass, Sturgon all are damaged by the heavy metal chemical content found in their body fats. And why is it I see so many poor people in Detroit feeding on the game fish from the Detroit River?
Of course, lets not forget that most famous of all toxic waste sights! The one we all live in mortal dread of - "The Love Canal" of Niagara Falls, New York! Its on the Niagara River just before the falls! The former city dump site and for Niagara Power Company and Hooker Chemical which set the very standard for public negligence. Residents of Niagara Falls were found to have highly abnormal birth defects - enlarged feet, hands, legs and heads, and a high miscarriage rate with mental retardation of children. The ground would not grow grass, flowers or any living thing - right where people were living in homes - with 55 gallon drums of chemicals working up from the ground and where residential foundations grew with indescribable black mould. This ground, this river so polluted with so many chemicals - today 50 years later it is still considered a "public health time bomb."
If that was not enough - "Love Canal Two!" - brought to you by the same industrial neglegence - today in Detroit - a similar clean up is going on! Thats right boys and girls another large toxic spill in St. Clair Shores, Michigan in the 1970's when that nasty old PCB transformer oil - nasty dangerous Detroit Edison carcinogenic transformer oil was disposed of over a period of years by dumping it into the 10 Mile Canal of Lake St. Clair. Yes, that's right "It's the New Love Canal! all over again!" - for you and I as residents living in this recreational boating wonderland - us - we - you and I? - encountering high rates of cancers and mortality again! - and the property in that area is un marketable! - especially not if they find out! And our local excitement for this year will be watching the Federal govenment spend billions digging up the public streets in a huge clean up - hauling that nasty old toxic lake bed away!
Because we so much enjoy living and playing in a toxic dump site that was once the campground of native peoples and French fur trappers like Cadillac. Ah! yes! what was once the boating play place for "rum running millionares of the 1920's" - with all the natural ambiance of the Detroit River industrial centrer for oil refineries, chemical production and steel production for the past 100 years!
O mon dois!
Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo in Ohio, and Sarnia, Hamilton, and Toronto, Ontario all helping add their 10% - "Oh water wonderland of the world!"
O Mon Dois!
-------------------------------
Yah thats right! ship that water to Califorina - the Valley will surely love it for irrigation and drinking water. Up till now we have only had to deal with Mexican workers watering the vegetables with human waste! And, Oh yah! - by the way when California gets it's share - well then? - how you gonna say no to Texas, Arizona, Mexico, Utah, Africa, Arabia? - And when you drain down that once pristine watershed of the Great Lakes - well what then?
Let em die of thirst in California! - Want the water? - or what's left of it, go live in New York - cause we don't care how they "do it" in California!. People in Michigan got something to say about this too! It's our polluted cesspool and we ain't givin it up! Cause that's what they make shotguns for!
Doc
radio ranch Dr D The Great Lakes are the largest consentrated supply of fresh water in the world. Pristine and untouched except by native Americans until the discovery and settlement of the North American Continent by European people just some 300 years ago. The pure runnoff of the glaciers of millions of years ago. Cool fresh water - oceans of it to play in! The mighty ocean liners could bathe in its beauty! Since that time much of it has been severely ravaged by industrial waste and farm chemical "run off." I remember in the 1969 when the Cuyahoga river in Ohio caught of fire from the oil pollution. It was the 13th time in 75 years and was the cause of the US Congress creating the EPA - Enviornmental Protection Act. Lake Erie could not be navagated because of the 25 foot high soap foam run off from public sewers that caused ships to churn the phosphate rich soap water into mountains of un navagatable of soap foam. Unlike constant sewer effluent runnoff into the lakes of the past, presently the City of Detroit sewer system - like other American cities - when it cannot handle the public waste just dumps the overflow into the lakes. Just like they do and have done in Lake Erie or Lake Michigan or Lake Superior. Yes Virginia, the bottom of Lake Erie has heavy metal concentration from industrial waste settled into the mud so many foot deep, that will take centuries to clear it out. And I'm not counting similar industrial run off from Duluth, Minnesota - Gary, Indiana - Milwaukee, Wisconson and Chicago, Illinois. At Port Huron, Michigan and the Canadian chemical plants, the Mercury level in the water and river bottom makes the game fish inediable. Michigan Department of Natural Resources is constantly warning game fishermen not eat more than a certain amount - several fish per year. Unfortunately Lake St. Clair is one of the best producing game fishing areas in the world - Muskellunge, Pike, Walleye, Perch, Bass, Sturgon all are damaged by the heavy metal chemical content found in their body fats. And why is it I see so many poor people in Detroit feeding on the game fish from the Detroit River? Of course, lets not forget that most famous of all toxic waste sights! The one we all live in mortal dread of - "The Love Canal" of Niagara Falls, New York! Its on the Niagara River just before the falls! The former city dump site and for Niagara Power Company and Hooker Chemical which set the very standard for public negligence. Residents of Niagara Falls were found to have highly abnormal birth defects - enlarged feet, hands, legs and heads, and a high miscarriage rate with mental retardation of children. The ground would not grow grass, flowers or any living thing - right where people were living in homes - with 55 gallon drums of chemicals working up from the ground and where residential foundations grew with indescribable black mould. This ground, this river so polluted with so many chemicals - today 50 years later it is still considered a "public health time bomb." If that was not enough - "Love Canal Two!" - brought to you by the same industrial neglegence - today in Detroit - a similar clean up is going on! Thats right boys and girls another large toxic spill in St. Clair Shores, Michigan in the 1970's when that nasty old PCB transformer oil - nasty dangerous Detroit Edison carcinogenic transformer oil was disposed of over a period of years by dumping it into the 10 Mile Canal of Lake St. Clair. Yes, that's right "It's the New Love Canal! all over again!" - for you and I as residents living in this recreational boating wonderland - us - we - you and I? - encountering high rates of cancers and mortality again! - and the property in that area is un marketable! - especially not if they find out! And our local excitement for this year will be watching the Federal govenment spend billions digging up the public streets in a huge clean up - hauling that nasty old toxic lake bed away! Because we so much enjoy living and playing in a toxic dump site that was once the campground of native peoples and French fur trappers like Cadillac. Ah! yes! what was once the boating play place for "rum running millionares of the 1920's" - with all the natural ambiance of the Detroit River industrial centrer for oil refineries, chemical production and steel production for the past 100 years! O mon dois! Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo in Ohio, and Sarnia, Hamilton, and Toronto, Ontario all helping add their 10% - "Oh water wonderland of the world!" O Mon Dois! ------------------------------- Yah thats right! ship that water to Califorina - the Valley will surely love it for irrigation and drinking water. Up till now we have only had to deal with Mexican workers watering the vegetables with human waste! And, Oh yah! - by the way when California gets it's share - well then? - how you gonna say no to Texas, Arizona, Mexico, Utah, Africa, Arabia? - And when you drain down that once pristine watershed of the Great Lakes - well what then? Let em die of thirst in California! - Want the water? - or what's left of it, go live in New York - cause we don't care how they "do it" in California!. People in Michigan got something to say about this too! It's our polluted cesspool and we ain't givin it up! Cause that's what they make shotguns for! Doc You must be a million laughs at parties!
You must be a million laughs at parties!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm radio ranch Dr D The Great Lakes are the largest consentrated supply of fresh water in the world. Pristine and untouched except by native Americans until the discovery and settlement of the North American Continent by European people just some 300 years ago. The pure runnoff of the glaciers of millions of years ago. Cool fresh water - oceans of it to play in! The mighty ocean liners could bathe in its beauty! Since that time much of it has been severely ravaged by industrial waste and farm chemical "run off." I remember in the 1969 when the Cuyahoga river in Ohio caught of fire from the oil pollution. It was the 13th time in 75 years and was the cause of the US Congress creating the EPA - Enviornmental Protection Act. Lake Erie could not be navagated because of the 25 foot high soap foam run off from public sewers that caused ships to churn the phosphate rich soap water into mountains of un navagatable of soap foam. Unlike constant sewer effluent runnoff into the lakes of the past, presently the City of Detroit sewer system - like other American cities - when it cannot handle the public waste just dumps the overflow into the lakes. Just like they do and have done in Lake Erie or Lake Michigan or Lake Superior. Yes Virginia, the bottom of Lake Erie has heavy metal concentration from industrial waste settled into the mud so many foot deep, that will take centuries to clear it out. And I'm not counting similar industrial run off from Duluth, Minnesota - Gary, Indiana - Milwaukee, Wisconson and Chicago, Illinois. At Port Huron, Michigan and the Canadian chemical plants, the Mercury level in the water and river bottom makes the game fish inediable. Michigan Department of Natural Resources is constantly warning game fishermen not eat more than a certain amount - several fish per year. Unfortunately Lake St. Clair is one of the best producing game fishing areas in the world - Muskellunge, Pike, Walleye, Perch, Bass, Sturgon all are damaged by the heavy metal chemical content found in their body fats. And why is it I see so many poor people in Detroit feeding on the game fish from the Detroit River? Of course, lets not forget that most famous of all toxic waste sights! The one we all live in mortal dread of - "The Love Canal" of Niagara Falls, New York! Its on the Niagara River just before the falls! The former city dump site and for Niagara Power Company and Hooker Chemical which set the very standard for public negligence. Residents of Niagara Falls were found to have highly abnormal birth defects - enlarged feet, hands, legs and heads, and a high miscarriage rate with mental retardation of children. The ground would not grow grass, flowers or any living thing - right where people were living in homes - with 55 gallon drums of chemicals working up from the ground and where residential foundations grew with indescribable black mould. This ground, this river so polluted with so many chemicals - today 50 years later it is still considered a "public health time bomb." If that was not enough - "Love Canal Two!" - brought to you by the same industrial neglegence - today in Detroit - a similar clean up is going on! Thats right boys and girls another large toxic spill in St. Clair Shores, Michigan in the 1970's when that nasty old PCB transformer oil - nasty dangerous Detroit Edison carcinogenic transformer oil was disposed of over a period of years by dumping it into the 10 Mile Canal of Lake St. Clair. Yes, that's right "It's the New Love Canal! all over again!" - for you and I as residents living in this recreational boating wonderland - us - we - you and I? - encountering high rates of cancers and mortality again! - and the property in that area is un marketable! - especially not if they find out! And our local excitement for this year will be watching the Federal govenment spend billions digging up the public streets in a huge clean up - hauling that nasty old toxic lake bed away! Because we so much enjoy living and playing in a toxic dump site that was once the campground of native peoples and French fur trappers like Cadillac. Ah! yes! what was once the boating play place for "rum running millionares of the 1920's" - with all the natural ambiance of the Detroit River industrial centrer for oil refineries, chemical production and steel production for the past 100 years! O mon dois! Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo in Ohio, and Sarnia, Hamilton, and Toronto, Ontario all helping add their 10% - "Oh water wonderland of the world!" O Mon Dois! ------------------------------- Yah thats right! ship that water to Califorina - the Valley will surely love it for irrigation and drinking water. Up till now we have only had to deal with Mexican workers watering the vegetables with human waste! And, Oh yah! - by the way when California gets it's share - well then? - how you gonna say no to Texas, Arizona, Mexico, Utah, Africa, Arabia? - And when you drain down that once pristine watershed of the Great Lakes - well what then? Let em die of thirst in California! - Want the water? - or what's left of it, go live in New York - cause we don't care how they "do it" in California!. People in Michigan got something to say about this too! It's our polluted cesspool and we ain't givin it up! Cause that's what they make shotguns for! Doc You must be a million laughs at parties! Perhaps he is related to the late Dr. Josef Mengele, the notorious "Angel of Death" of Auschwitz infamy? He also knows nothing about the current condition of the Great Lakes. For example, most of metro Chicago drinks treated Lake Michigan water and has for years.
And when did this Lake Erie unnavigable event happen. How did all that iron ore get to those unloading docks along the southern shore? OMG! who isn't this guy and what's he on?
I'm going to get dangerous and think.
Wouldn't it make more sense, before working out the logistics of getting water to California, to find out WHO is willing to sell them some?
Pass the popcorn.
Norm
And who is willing to buy California water?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/11/us-forest-service-investigating-expired-nestle-wat/
An investigation by the Desert Sun found that Nestle Waters North America’s permit to transport water across the San Bernardino National Forest expired in 1988. The water is piped across the national forest and loaded on trucks to a plant where it is bottled as Arrowhead 100 percent Mountain Spring Water.
Maybe we can get a backhaul operation like I've mentioned for the oil trains: water trains to take Mississippi river water to California, then take California water back to the Mississippi valley.
Previous and current efforts to obtain water for CA from the Columbia River have been hindered by political obstacles, but this source is currently the most viable for large volume according to those who have been working on this. Meanwhile, we have heard from at least one source elsewhere in the U.S., within reasonable proximity of CA, who has their own water source, their own rail loading facility, and customers from CA who are already knocking at their door. Stay tuned...
Schlimm,
I can't believe you are a retired psychologist, as you sure resort to "character assassination" much too easily for that professional calling! I can't imagine you as a professional counselor - how did your short temper effect your clients! I call malpractice! Mostly you seem to write criticism of others on this site and offer little of your education and understanding of the human personality - short of irritation with it.
I wrote my post, which you quote, on March 19th and it has taken you a month to pull up your Dr. Josef Mengele insult - give me a break! Maybe you would want to accuse me of "mother rapin and father beatin" also!
Minus my editorial twist, the incidents I desribed are factual and lead to the establishment of the Enviornmental Protection Agency of our national government. The real issue is that the Great Lakes have been serously enviornmentally abused, and once a world treasure like the Great Lakes becomes saleable there is no satifying the need for it - around the world. It is already common practice for foreign tanker ships to come into the lakes and fill their holds taking the water cargo with them while polluting the lakes with foreign species of fish and water creatures. Nestle Corp. bottler of purified water has located in Michigan and has droped the water table in the state selling its product nationally - the State of Michigan has reacted to this legally.
The New York Times has also reported several public interest organizsations have also raised concerns about the health and safety of such bottled water, both in comparison to municipal tap water and in contrast to the industry's marketing image of pure water products. While the public often perceives such water as being of higher quality than tap water, at least one prominent enviornmental organizsation has directly attacked this perception. In 1999 the National Resources Defence Council ("NRDC") issued a report entitled "Bottled Water: Pure Drink or Pure Hype." In the report NRDC warned the public that "no one should assume that just because he or she purchases such water in a bottle that it is necessarily any better regulated, purer, or safer than other common tap water. NRDC performed "snapshot" testing of more than 1000 bottles of 103 brands of water by three independent labs and found that most water tested was of good quality, but of some brands this was not so. It is not surprising that Michigan and other states have established serious controls over the use of water within the state boundaries as a saleable commodity. Some of the risks of Great Lakes water are serious.
Next time you run out of logical arguments you might try the old psychological ploy of "kicking the dog" it's probably handier that I am - you are hopeless in your ability to be a creative writer? Calling me a Nazi! I protest!
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.