Metrolink accident and derailment in Oxnard, Ca Febuary 24, 2015

[zardoz]

What's up with all these derailments lately? It sure seems like the cars are causing so many problems. Since when did road vehicles become so dangerous to trains?

Perhaps the front end of locomotives and cabcars need a different design so these vehicles do not become involved with the train's running gear. The plow-shaped pilot used to be sufficient to deflect a struck object. I wonder what has changed lately; or is it just coincidence?

[DS4-4-1000]

Buslist

vsmithUnfortunately the only way to prevent something like this from happening is to separate the grades. Expensive but I suspect within a decade either the roads or the tracks here will either be on a flyover or entrenched. The way the roadway intersections and traffic signals are set up here on this stretch of 5th street, the risk of grade crossing incursions is never going to be eliminated as it is. This is what has happened in other places in SoCal where increased development and increased traffic has occured, and Oxnard/Camarillo is only going to continue to grow. of course we had the case in the UK where an SUV came off the road on the incline to an overpass and ended up on the tracks derailing a train, no problem until the derailed train was in the path of an oncoming train in the other direction. So overpasses don't completely solve it all.

And a similar incident occurred recently in Texas involving a Prison Bus ending up on the tracks at a highway overpass.

[Buslist]

vsmith

Unfortunately the only way to prevent something like this from happening is to separate the grades. Expensive but I suspect within a decade either the roads or the tracks here will either be on a flyover or entrenched. The way the roadway intersections and traffic signals are set up here on this stretch of 5th street, the risk of grade crossing incursions is never going to be eliminated as it is. This is what has happened in other places in SoCal where increased development and increased traffic has occured, and Oxnard/Camarillo is only going to continue to grow.

 

of course we had the case in the UK where an SUV came off the road on the incline to an overpass and ended up on the tracks derailing a train, no problem until the derailed train was in the path of an oncoming train in the other direction. So overpasses don't completely solve it all.

[BaltACD]

Norm48327

Rather than relying on the usually inaccurate media, I would like to see the cab video.

I suspect that may become available through clandestine channels after the NTSB gets fully into their investigation.

[Norm48327]

Rather than relying on the usually inaccurate media, I would like to see the cab video.

[vsmith]

Unfortunately the only way to prevent something like this from happening is to separate the grades. Expensive but I suspect within a decade either the roads or the tracks here will either be on a flyover or entrenched. The way the roadway intersections and traffic signals are set up here on this stretch of 5th street, the risk of grade crossing incursions is never going to be eliminated as it is. This is what has happened in other places in SoCal where increased development and increased traffic has occured, and Oxnard/Camarillo is only going to continue to grow.

[Euclid]

I am exhausted by the torturous semantics of “Stuck on the tracks.” 

Apparently, the driver mistook the tracks for a road that he intended to enter.  He did not get “stuck” in terms of being high-centered on the crossing, or by being stopped by traffic.  Since he drove down the track 80 feet, I assume that the truck was not high-centered on the track as he drove.  Apparently, the train was in sight when the truck stopped on the track. 

Here is what we don’t know:  Whether or not the driver was unable to drive off of the track by climbing over the rails.  I think most people would attempt to do that unless the train was too close.  But the driver might have found it impossible to get the truck to climb off of the tracks.  I would call that being “stuck on the track.”  I cannot image how the NTSB is able to rule that out, as they apparently have. 

It is also possible that the driver never attempted to drive the truck off of the track by turning to one side or the other.  If that is the case, he did exactly what Operation Lifesaver tells drivers to do in that circumstance. 

[BaltACD]

A more measured report -

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Metrolink-Train-Crash-Oxnard-Camarillo-Ventura-County-293835911.html

[ACY Tom]

The TV reporting, as stated above, is pretty poor. 

The train "flew off the tracks."  FLEW?

The train struck the truck, "decimating it"?  Look up decimate.  Destroyed would be closer to the truth.  Incorrect use of decimate is a pet peeve of mine.

Tom

[ricktrains4824]

If, indeed, welders supplies were on board, that would, definitely, cause a fire... You, sir, maybe onto something there. 

[BaltACD]

Being a welding truck & trailer - I suspect there were bottles of acetelyene and oxygen on board that are what caused the fire when they were breached by the impact of the collision.

[narig01]

As of 530pmPST
According to news reports 50 people were on board the train. 38 people were transported to area hospitals. 4 were in critical condition, including the locomotive engineer who was described as being in the worst condition. The engineer is expected to survive.
The driver of the truck was found by police 1.4 miles from the wreck site disoriented. One Jose Alejandro Sanchez Ramirez. Mr Ramirez is from Yuma, Arizona and is in possessed a valid Arizona drivers license. Also found in the truck is what was described as various welding equipment. The truck is owned by a welding company in Arizona. Was described as being properly registered and insured. This afternoon or this evening when Mr Ramirez was released from the hospital he was taken into custody.
According to one released statement it appears Mr Ramirez made a right turn onto the railroad tracks. He was traveling south on S.Rice Ave and was attempting to turn right onto E 5th St and mistook the tracks for the street. The railroad tracks parallel E 5th St. Sunrise in Oxnard this morning was 632am PST.
There are NO fatalities reported in this wreck. Two news outlets said early on there had been a fatality. Earlier reports of the locomotive fuel having been spilled appear to be incorrect as several outlets reported the fire department as stating the locomotive fuel tanks were intact.

Comments.
The speculation is that the driver turned onto the tracks in error. In the dark. I would speculate that he confused the lines of the railroad crossing for the lines of E 5th St. Then after driving off the pavement his vehicle became trapped on the tracks.
Mr Ramirez appears to have an Arizona drivers license and I would think had to present valid documentation of his legal status as Arizona is being quite persistent on that issue. If not he could have very easily just gone to Winterhaven, Ca across the Colorado river in California if had not had proper documents.
I may be proven wrong on any of these comments. Time will tell.

Rgds IGN

[Deggesty]

this is the link that I read this morning. http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/24/us/california-train-wreck/index.html

On the NBC evening news just now, there was a report of the wreck--there was no report that the driver had turned on to the track in error, and was driving on it. The report gave the impression that he had started to cross the track.

Oh, well, the usual in-depth reporting. 

[blue streak 1]

EDIT  now appears he drove down track ?

 If I had been railfanning on this train would sue the driver only for actual damages paid to metrolink and $1M punatative damages.  Might that get attention of other scoff laws ?

If others wanted to join in the more the merrier.

[ricktrains4824]

CSSHEGEWISCH

It is done that way in some places.  At 130th and Torrence, the CWI formerly paralleled Torrence Avenue about 100 feet to the east.  The stop light for westbound 130th St was placed short of the tracks and was timed to turn red about 5-10 seconds prior to the main intersection.

65th and Harlem in Summit is set up in a similar fashion.

 

Yep, I have a couple in my area set up that same way, and a couple that when a train is approaching all sides go red, to clear any stopped traffic waiting to turn. They also have one where it is set like that, then an audible warning sounds, then parrellel road gets green, but a sign that reads "train approaching, no turns" lights up. The gates are timed a few seconds after the bell and lights activate. Neat feature. Of course, that line they run at restricted speed.... This crash, that line is much faster speed, and more frequent trains. The other sets in my area, lights behind the tracks and timed a few seconds ahead of intersection lights, parallel road gets green, but a no (right/left) turn arrow lights up when the crossing signals activate. A few of these crossings are slower speed, others are 45-55mph train speed, so, could get close calls. And one intersection, where the four way intersection has tracks cut through the middle diagonally. That is a cool intersection to see trains at! All traffic gets red lights, plus crossing flashers, plus bell. That line is a local short line though, so shorter trains, and resricted to no more than 35mph the whole line.... There, doing good at 25mph. But, definitely been some real close calls there, too. And, seen people follow the tracks, instead of the road!  Really unsure how that one happens.....

[ricktrains4824]

Deggesty

How many of us noticed that, according to one news report, the man was driving on the railroad track--and was stuck (high-centered?)?

Yep... I caught that. He "made a wrong turn and got stuck straddling the tracks". Case of "but my GPS said turn right!" (Or left.)?

Also, ABC reports that the conductor noticed him, and put the train into emergency.... Wouldn't that be the engineer? Unless the conductor was in the cab-car, and the engineer was riding the pushing locomotive.... But I don't quite trust that report now...... Sounding like typical report first, fact check later. A certain suspended news anchor comes to mind........ 

(Yes, I know, he made stuff up, but is this type of reporting any better?)

My question though, is why did he run away? Several news reports state the driver was found by police almost a mile away..... Scared? Or, thrown clear of crash and "wandered" away during the fire/rescue effort? 

[BaltACD]

Deggesty

How many of us noticed that, according to one news report, the man was driving on the railroad track--and was stuck (high-centered?)?

Haven't heard that particular report.

[Deggesty]

How many of us noticed that, according to one news report, the man was driving on the railroad track--and was stuck (high-centered?)?

[MikeF90]

rcdrye

On the CNN video, the Hyundai-Rotem cab car is the one on its side next to another H-R coach, also on its side.  The second car (bottom of screen) appears to be an older Bombardier coach.  The fourth coach and the locomotive are the upright ones.

This link from ABC News has a photo showing all of the cars and loco: http://abcnews.go.com/US/photos/train-collides-vehicle-southern-california-29184501/image-29184871 

The Rotem cab car was rotated back toward the pushing loco, showing the tremendous collision forces on the passenger cars - no wonder there are so many casualties. Surprisingly none of the cars shows much deformation.

Per a spokesperson at the noon (PST) briefing, another one will follow at about 4PM.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

It is done that way in some places.  At 130th and Torrence, the CWI formerly paralleled Torrence Avenue about 100 feet to the east.  The stop light for westbound 130th St was placed short of the tracks and was timed to turn red about 5-10 seconds prior to the main intersection.

65th and Harlem in Summit is set up in a similar fashion.

[BaltACD]

blue streak 1

BaltACD

Looking at the crossing and the parralell highway that the cross street has a traffic light to observe - there doesn't appear to be more than 2 automobile lengths between the railroad and the stop line for the street.  I see this kind of crossing way too frequently for my personal liking - it is an accident waiting to happen as they always do.

 

 

 

 

Balt:  That is my feeling as well.  Do you keep a picture in mind of those crossings in your territories ?  Can imagine your pucker factor if an oil train reported going to hit a TT at one of those crossings. Worse still the report of a collision there.

These crossings are not easy to mitigate.  Florida DOT has replaced a few over Tri - Rail but they overpasses are massive.  Cannot imagine the cost.

This collision remines one of the nearly same lay out as the MNRR derailment.

 

I don't know why they don't put the STOP line for these type crossing/intersections on the far side of the railroad along with the attendent Red Light.  Anyone occupying the space between the railroad and the parralell street is guilty of running the red light.  Since municipalities are always looking for revenue sources, set up a red light camera to enforce the space.

[blue streak 1]

BaltACD

Looking at the crossing and the parralell highway that the cross street has a traffic light to observe - there doesn't appear to be more than 2 automobile lengths between the railroad and the stop line for the street.  I see this kind of crossing way too frequently for my personal liking - it is an accident waiting to happen as they always do.

 

Balt:  That is my feeling as well.  Do you keep a picture in mind of those crossings in your territories ?  Can imagine your pucker factor if an oil train reported going to hit a TT at one of those crossings. Worse still the report of a collision there.

These crossings are not easy to mitigate.  Florida DOT has replaced a few over Tri - Rail but they overpasses are massive.  Cannot imagine the cost.

This collision remines one of the nearly same lay out as the MNRR derailment.

[rcdrye]

On the CNN video, the Hyundai-Rotem cab car is the one on its side next to another H-R coach, also on its side.  The second car (bottom of screen) appears to be an older Bombardier coach.  The fourth coach and the locomotive are the upright ones.

[tree68]

From the published images, I conclude that the truck had a utility-style body on it and was towing a box-style trailer.

.  

The questions of the hour would be why the driver of the truck left it on the crossing, and where he actually was at the time of the collision.  He was apparently located a couple of miles from the scene.

By all indications, the engineer (or conductor, as reported in one story ) saw the situation fairly early - possibly because the trailer was on fire (as noted elsewhere).  The line of sight there (N 34.19715 W 119.14228) is fairly long.

 

[Bruce Kelly]

I'm told that CNN's Jake Tapper will have a somewhat in-depth report today at 4pm EST.

[Buxtehude]

But now their latest report said that only 28 of the 51 total number of passengers were injured, with 4 in critical condition, with the engineer as the most seriously injured, although they did not list his injuries or his present condition.  The conductor was also seriously injured.  Initial reports were that the truck was on fire before the train hit it, but now the officials are discounting that.  They also said that the train was traveling at its cruising speed of 79 MPH, but that the long stretch of straight track allowed the engineer to see the truck from a "great" distance away, so he had time to pull the emergency brake, etc.  I can imagine the poor engineer, having done everything he could to stop, just sitting there for however many seconds it took, watching the truck get closer and closer, and being able to do nothing.  

[wanswheel]

L.A. Times says the truck was already on fire before it was struck.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-california-trail-derails-30-injured-20150224-story.html

[samfp1943]

[quote user="narig01"]Here is CNN report with video.

 http://www.cnn.com//2015/02/24/us/california-train-wreck/index.html

 
For those of you looking as to the actions of the cars, the video is overhead from the air. It shows various marks in the dirt of the path of what I would suspect is the lead car.

One of the other pictures shows the remnants of a van truck. Also one report stated it was a utility truck (?) . Looking at the pictures and video of the remnants of the truck a smaller truck NOT an 18 wheeler. I did not see anything that looked like a cab of a truck.

Three of the Metrolink cars are on their sides.The train was in push mode. Two of the overturned cars were the newer Hyundai Rotem cars (I think that is what their called). The third overturned car was one of the older Bombardier cars.

Rgds IGN

 

[/quote]

Just saw an udated report @ 10Am Central:  They are reporting 51 were transported from the scene, including the Engineer and Conductor; The driver of the truck hit at the crossing apparently tried to run from the sene but was captured by the police. The truck was destroyed by fire after it had exploded.

 

http://www.cnn.com//2015/02/24/us/california-train-wreck/index.html
[heated up the link previously provided.]

[BaltACD]

Looking at the crossing and the parralell highway that the cross street has a traffic light to observe - there doesn't appear to be more than 2 automobile lengths between the railroad and the stop line for the street.  I see this kind of crossing way too frequently for my personal liking - it is an accident waiting to happen as they always do.

In this instance I hope none of the injuries are too serious.

[schlimm]

Questions:  1.Is the intersecting road a busy one?  2. Speed of metrolink trains there?   

Comment:  If above are 'yes' and '55+mph,' needs grade separation.