NICE JOB ! KP Fortituous Catch!
erikem Hmmm, interesting idea and it makes sense.
Hmmm, interesting idea and it makes sense.
I agree - and it wouldn't take an special measures (beyond the equipment itself) to do so. One set of gates goes down, the other goes up. All the circuitry is already in place - just a couple more relays.
I would opine that the gates should somehow appear different, at least from the road side. Maybe black and yellow vs red and white. That way motorists would (hopefully) see them as different from crossing gates.
They should also not contain any lights, except possibly facing oncoming trains as an indication that the gate is down.
A down side of this is crossing failures. Currently, if crossing warning equipment fails, the worst that can happen to a train (other than hitting a vehicle) is having to stop and flag. This option would completely block the crossing.
I should note that this should not be a universal installation. It should be reserved for those places that have a history of people turning on to the tracks, which is going to be chiefly where there are parallel roads. Your run-of-the-mill 90 degree road crossing shouldn't need it. Anyone who turns onto the tracks there probably meant to.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
ORNHOO In situations like this (Rail line parallel to busy road, intersection with cross street protected by crossing arms) I wonder if it would be useful to install crossing arms across the rail line. These would be triggered by the same track circuitry as the existing crossing gates, but work in the opposite direction (Road gate closes=Rail gate opens...train passes through...Road gate opens=Rail gate closes).
In situations like this (Rail line parallel to busy road, intersection with cross street protected by crossing arms) I wonder if it would be useful to install crossing arms across the rail line. These would be triggered by the same track circuitry as the existing crossing gates, but work in the opposite direction (Road gate closes=Rail gate opens...train passes through...Road gate opens=Rail gate closes).
A number of British "Level Crossings" had gates which swung through 90 degrees, closing across the road for passage of a train and closing off the tracks when open for road traffic. In Britain the railways are generally fenced off for safety, and this feature of the crossing gates continued this idea.
On lesser used lines, these were manually operated, but on main lines they were power operated, but generally in a location where the gate operator could observe the road traffic. A heavy wood and steel gate is not as forgiving as a boom intended to break off on impact.
On the other hand, perhaps motorists would think twice about trying to beat a gate which could write off their vehicle, independent of the effect of any approaching train.
On double track lines there would have been four gates, each swinging through 90 degrees, but on single track lines, one gate each side would suffice.
The gates were painted white with a red circle in the centre with rai crossing markings.
A modern day equivalent could be a boom that swung through 90 degrees in a horizontal plane. Even this might discourage motorists from crossing at the last minute since the boom always remains at the closed height, greatly reducing the opportunity to avoid the boom. If four booms were used closing off the tracks in both directions and both lanes of the road (as appropriate) the chances of entering the crossing at the wrong time would be reduced.
There might be more boom impact incidents initially, but as people became familiar with the new arrangements, safety should be increased.
M636C
Speaking of the Devil
Concerning the Tuesday, February 24, 2015 train wreck that is the subject of this thread, the cab car that collided with the truck at 79 M.P.H. was Metrolink No. 645. The locomotive pushing was Metrolink 870.
A little over a week earlier, on Sunday, February 15, 2015, both the SAME 870 (leading this time) and 645 (trailing) passed the State College Blvd. grade crossing (near Disneyland and where the California Angels play) in Anaheim on Metrolink’s Los Angeles-Oceanside line.
A heavy telephoto of the above train at the Anaheim stop, by Anaheim Stadium: The overhead bridge is the north-south 57 Freeway.
K.P. was at the Anaheim grade crossing photographing the site of ANOTHER grade crossing collision that took place there over 49 years earlier. How ironic that the train that I photographed (power and cab car) was involved in the Oxnard disaster of this thread just 9 days later!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Buxtehude Reuters reports that the driver was released from custody last night and was not charged with any crime. The reason? He hired a smart lawyer...
Reuters reports that the driver was released from custody last night and was not charged with any crime. The reason? He hired a smart lawyer...
I'd wonder if it was his company had hired the "smart lawyer" as the company would likely be the deep pockets in the likely lawsuits.
If I may add a little more conjecture to the conjecturing going on ....
It has been suggested that the driver may have been lost or confused in the dark when he turned onto the track. I have come upon many intersections that are not easy to make out in the dark. They are poorly lit, and you have headlights of other cars and bright lights in adjacent parking lots or brightly lit signs that make it hard to see the road. Maybe a few bright streetlights might be helpful at this crossing.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
The driver apparently made a mistake and drove onto the tracks when he intended to turn onto a cross street. He will probably get a ticket for traffic violation. He won't go to prison. I assume that these news sources would have shouted it from the mountaintop if he were found to be drunk. Thus he was not.
He became stalled on the tracks and did exactly what Operation Lifesaver tells drivers to do. They tell drivers to make no attempt to extricate your stalled vehicle. Just leave it where it is and run for safety. In this case, I think the driver even did make some attempt to extricate the vehicle and get it into the clear. The driver did contact the police about the situation exactly as he was supposed to do.
The distance from the crossing where the driver was found is a major RED HERRING. The driver did exaclty what he was supposed to do.
English is not the drivers first language. I read in one of the articles, he has trouble communicating in English. He called his son to act as a interperter with his initial dealings with the police.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
So you are suggesting that he is a bad person because he is excersizing his constitutional right to hire an attorney, and a "smart" one at that?
So he sould only be allowed to hire a dumb attorney, or he shouldn't have the right in the first place?
On ABC last night, on of the spokesmen for the PD stated the driver made first contact with them,not the other way around, he went looking for a cop.
What if he was doing what OLS teaches, abandon the car, walk in the direction of the train and call 911?
23 17 46 11
Reuters reports that the driver was released from custody last night and was not charged with any crime. The reason? He hired a smart lawyer, and the Ventura Prosecutor's Office wanted to wait until the entire "complex" investigation finished before they acted one way or the other. He was found many blocks away, talking on his cell phone, and it's acknowledged that he drove 80 feet down the tracks, but he is now free to go wherever he wishes. I'm sure the folks who were injured can appreciate the careful concern of Ventura County.
It was also discovered that the signal equipment was working correctly, the train blew his horn 12 seconds before contact, and pulled his emergency brake 8 second before impact.
petitnjI know the investigators mean well, but here we have a poor driver, lost in the dark on an unfamiliar road, who has no idea where he is. What is there to learn?
Barriers at the side of the road (a la guardrails) are obviously out - the trains still have to get through.
Is there some visual or physical clue (aside from the total lack of road and the existence of railroad tracks) that could be introduced so those people who are blindly following their GPS, or are simply unfamiliar with the area, as this driver apparently was, would be made aware of their mistake before they're stuck on the rails?
That's really kind of a rhetorical question. If such a reminder could be introduced, people would either ignore it or otherwise not heed it.
I'm not even sure that the crossing occupation sensor suggested in another thread would have made a difference, unless the vehicle was in the crossing before the train left the Oxnard station and started accelerating. Sounds like it was already up to speed by the time it hit the curve.
I know the investigators mean well, but here we have a poor driver, lost in the dark on an unfamiliar road, who has no idea where he is. What is there to learn? They will discover that trucks and trains don't mix. Hopefully, all of MetroRail's data is intact; otherwise, the prosecution will claim a cover up and put a bad driver back on the road. Drunk driving should end your driving career -- permanently.
zardoz What's up with all these derailments lately? It sure seems like the cars are causing so many problems. Since when did road vehicles become so dangerous to trains? Perhaps the front end of locomotives and cabcars need a different design so these vehicles do not become involved with the train's running gear. The plow-shaped pilot used to be sufficient to deflect a struck object. I wonder what has changed lately; or is it just coincidence?
What's up with all these derailments lately? It sure seems like the cars are causing so many problems. Since when did road vehicles become so dangerous to trains?
Perhaps the front end of locomotives and cabcars need a different design so these vehicles do not become involved with the train's running gear. The plow-shaped pilot used to be sufficient to deflect a struck object. I wonder what has changed lately; or is it just coincidence?
I'm sure the accident details are available somewhere - and as Mike says, that information would be telling.
If all of the incidents share a common thread it would point to a singular shortcoming in the crossing, one that could likely be dealt with through some engineering process.
If, on the other hand, they're all different (to take the polar opposite situation), then that grade separation project (for which the price tag has likely doubled by now) is due. It sounded like they had major plans for the entire area.
As for fog - I'm not sure about Oxnard, but a little further up the coast fog is a way of life. We called it "Vandenfog" at Vandenberg AFB.
I'm thinking the crossing is basically an accident waiting to happen, with plenty of possibilities for drivers to make mistakes. Short of grade separation, I suspect there is no one (or few) solution.
blue streak 1 6 accidents in 7 years at this crossing. Something needs changing. If vehicles are turnings too soon K rails would mostly stop that. But there definitely needs other changes as well.
I'm finding that statement hard to agree with. Looking at the street view https://goo.gl/maps/3ZXjl confirms my recollection that this area is very flat with few visual obstructions. If the driver is turning right, how could he miss hitting the crossing gate and the beefy light bar mast? Right turn from the left lane?
Left unsaid by the generalizations about "six / twelve / many accidents have happened there" are other critical details such as driver impairment or fog. No reports of the latter but the former remains to be determined.
IMO since the driver has a valid CDL he probably has at least average driving skills; agricultural communities here are known for being 'demolition derbies' featuring unlicensed drivers and poorly maintained vehicles.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
BaltACD Truck driver had previous indicents with law http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Metrolink-California-Train-Crash-Derailment-NTSB-Ventura-County-294015831.html
Truck driver had previous indicents with law
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Metrolink-California-Train-Crash-Derailment-NTSB-Ventura-County-294015831.html
Johnny
To drive off a track, one has to cut the tires hard to the side or the rails will just cause them to slide along the rail. They won't climb up unless they face them at almost a right angle. It is not intuitly obvious to someone to do that. So perhaps he tried to move to the side and the tirse just slid along the rails and he felt he was trapped (stuck) and so chose to evacuate the truck for his safety.
Sam, are you sure that the driver comprehends English?
MikeF90 Per the above nbclosangeles post, the truck driver's lawyer stated that "He does not know how or why the truck he was driving stopped on the tracks ..." Hmmm. I would have noticed, say within one car length, the SEVERELY ROUGH RIDE from being on railroad ties spaced two feet apart. Maybe not in a 1968 Cadillac El Dorado, but certainly in a Ford F-450. Any experienced railroad tie drivers care to comment?
Per the above nbclosangeles post, the truck driver's lawyer stated that "He does not know how or why the truck he was driving stopped on the tracks ..."
Hmmm. I would have noticed, say within one car length, the SEVERELY ROUGH RIDE from being on railroad ties spaced two feet apart. Maybe not in a 1968 Cadillac El Dorado, but certainly in a Ford F-450. Any experienced railroad tie drivers care to comment?
Or, MikeF90;
You might have had a situation line the one pictured on this link (?) @ http://www.wctrib.com/content/train-stops-brainerd-moments-it-would-have-hit-truck
Maybe, The BNSF engineer in Brainerd,MN was going slow enoght to stop for the truck on his tracks(?) Or then you have one like the one here in Wichita this day when the BNSF train clipped a truck on the tracks(?) See @ http://www.knssradio.com/Train-Clips-Semi-Truck-in-S-Wichita/21014172
Could it also be part of the problem that "Driver Training", and an ability to read, and understand signs in English has gone away,,lately?
I am not sure if having one such ride qualifies me as a railroad tie driver, but one midnight when I left work I was in a fog dense enough for me to miss a right-hand turn that I knew I had to make to get home. Knowing that the street I was on merged with another street that was at a right angle to the one I should have turned on to, I kept going until I thought I had reached the point at which I was to make a sharp right turn. However, I soon knew, from the bump-bump-bump that I was on the railroad that pararelled the street I thought I was turning on. Had I kept on, I would have reached the street I had missed. However, I thought better of that, and backed up until I was on pavement--and made it home safely from there.
Do I miss spel Czech! After posting, I saw a spelling error--and found several more when I came back to correct that one.
zardozWhat's up with all these derailments lately? It sure seems like the cars are causing so many problems. Since when did road vehicles become so dangerous to trains?
Back in the 60's, a car hauler with a load of Ford Econoline vans all prettied up for "Wynn's Frictionproofing" took a wrong turn and high centered on a crossing in Milford, MI. Of course, a train came along and hit it (I have no idea of the time frame, all I recall is the aftermath).
Nowadays, that probably would have made the news cycle.
Back then, it probably didn't rate a column inch or two in the Detroit Free Press, or Detroit News.
Of course, there was no explosion or other devestation. Just a bunch of red and yellow vans scattered around.
That crossing (Liberty Street) has been closed for years, although there is talk of putting a pedestrian tunnel there.
I'm not so sure anything's changed, except we're in what's been called a "24 Hour News Cycle" nowadays. Local incidents and accidents that may have gone unreported by the national media as recently as 25 years ago now get covered as they've got to fill all that air time with SOMETHING.
Throw the internet into the mix and then there's even more coverage.
Considering that it's no mystery why an incident that used to be strictly local now goes national.
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