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Metro North, 6 dead

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:05 AM

wanswheel
The reason she stopped seems to be that she had no choice, except to stop right on the track, and the sign said don’t. I think she made the blunder because she had no experience estimating the speed of a tiny noisy train in the distance, but did know from experience that, if she must move promptly, backing up is a slow, tricky procedure compared  to flooring it in drive.

She knew her reverse, if she had a driveway or shopped much.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:55 AM

M=Manual. Of course, the indication on the dash is the gear that the transmission is in (1,2,3,4,5,or 6), and not "M."

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:48 AM

I know I'm an old fuddy duddy, but what the heck is "M" for?  I have a simple old PRNDL, and it works.  Many years ago, on "Green Acres", Miss Gabor pronounced it "Perndle".

Tom

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:43 AM

LION has been following the thread of this from his email account.

My Brother (the automobile mechanic with a masters degree in forestry) said that those cars have 6 forward speeds in order to increase gas mileage.

Oh well, maybe she got flustered, but she did not say that was the case. Deeper into the issue was an accident on the Taconic State Parkway (200 feet to the east) that diverted traffic onto this road whith which even though a local, she may not have been familiar with. (The town of Valhalla is 90% Cemeteries).

LION suspect (but of course does not know) that with all the traffic on that road at that moment she may not have been able to back up.

If LION was driving (besides the fact that him would not be caugt dead on a track) him would have gone forward fast *anywhere* right, left or shove the car in front out of the way.

But not all drivers are LIONS and so they may not have a nice soft tail to keep out of harms way.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:19 AM

edblysard

I can see where this, added to my first scenario, could contribute to her pulling forward, she may have panicked and decided that going ahead was faster than trying to figure out reverse.

My Challenger has the Mercedes German NIG auto stick transmission, it can be driven just like a automatic or a 5 speed manual.

The gear shift is mounted in the center console, looks just like every console mounted automatic shifter, but when you put it in D for drive, if you pull the shifter to the left, 90 degrees towards the driver, the car shifts into first gear, and the computer drops the automatic, you drive it like a normal 5 speed manual, except no clutch pedal, it has a "double plate clutch" feel, every time you pull the shifter to the left it down shifts, push it right, it shifts up...you have to shift all the way up to 5, then again to go back to D automatic, then and only then can you shift to reverse...confusing till you use it a lot, and if I remember, her SUV has the same transmission, only the shift feature  is on a stalk on the right side of the wheel, and uses buttons to select gears.

If so, there is a lot of lost time, with her going from park to whatever gear she was in.

 

When I bought a new car (a Cruze) going on two years ago, I had quite a bit to learn after the eleven years since I had bought a car. The shift lever is on the floor, with P, R, N, and D going straight back--and M to the left of D, with six ratios (I'm one better than you, Ed). I can shift to M from D at any time, and then I can control the gear ratio; it's quite useful for going the mile and a quarter downhill from home to about 4th Avenue (a drop of close to 800 feet), and I get wonderful gas mileage. Sometimes, the transmission decides that my choice was not wise, and I have to tell it to go back to what I want.

There are other things that are supposed to be improvements; the door covering the gasoline cap has to be pushed in before it can be opened; there is no cylinder for a key in the trunk lid; if the doors are unlocked the trunk can be opened by pressing in the right place. If I unlock the driverside front door with my key, the horn beeps until I put the key into the ignition switch; and other little annoying things.

Johnny

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:52 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Automakers aren't the only people who are mucking things up.  Software designers seem to have a knack for not remembering the people who are actually going to use their program.  System upgrades often appear to be a solution in search of a problem.

Really ? "I'm shocked, shocked" [heavy sarcasm]  More like a problem in search of a stable operation to muck up - witness the alleged 'upgrades' to this Forum from time to time.

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:09 AM
I expect there was panic all right.  I don’t know where the front end of her vehicle was in relation to the track, but if the gate was on the back of her vehicle, the front must have been close to the track.  Even if she was not fouling the track, she might have thought she was.  Otherwise, logically, it would have made the most sense to just stay put until the train passed and the gates lifted. 
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Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:19 AM

Euclid
I doubt that somebody who has driven a vehicle for a month or more would have not figured out how to back up.  We know that initially, the driver was blocked from backing up due to being blocked by the car behind her.  It is reported that the driver behind her backed up to give her room to come back, but it has never been clear how that was timed.  Maybe the driver was back in her vehicle and had already decided to escape forward when the driver behind backed up.
The news reported when the gate came down on her vehicle, the driver got out, looked at the gate, and reached up to wiggle it.  It was also reported that the gate was near the back of her vehicle.  I think it is most likely that she decided that forward would be the best way to disentangle from the gate, and that she did not realize that the time to get across had run out. 
 

Think panic.

Norm


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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:53 AM
I doubt that somebody who has driven a vehicle for a month or more would have not figured out how to back up.  We know that initially, the driver was blocked from backing up due to being blocked by the car behind her.  It is reported that the driver behind her backed up to give her room to come back, but it has never been clear how that was timed.  Maybe the driver was back in her vehicle and had already decided to escape forward when the driver behind backed up.
The news reported when the gate came down on her vehicle, the driver got out, looked at the gate, and reached up to wiggle it.  It was also reported that the gate was near the back of her vehicle.  I think it is most likely that she decided that forward would be the best way to disentangle from the gate, and that she did not realize that the time to get across had run out. 
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:10 AM

Automakers aren't the only people who are mucking things up.  Software designers seem to have a knack for not remembering the people who are actually going to use their program.  System upgrades often appear to be a solution in search of a problem.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:07 AM

There is much to be said for simplicity and I wonder why the auto-makers have to keep mucking things up. Could it be that the fools are not behind the wheel but in the engineering department?

I bought a new (to me) car last fall and the computer does everything. All I can do is point it where I want to go. I suppose that'll change soon.

Norm


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Posted by erikem on Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:02 AM

zugmann

Lessee, there was a case a few years back where someone was killed because of a stuck accelerator and no simple way to kill the engine (Toyota, IMHO criminal negligence in the design of the engine control software). Another incident died of heat exposure because there was no way to open the doors from the inside with the doors locked (IIRC, BMW).

I can't imagine MBZ in the days of Rudy Uhlenhaut foisting such an abomination of a "shift lever" on the driving public. He was the one who insisted that the headlight switch be on the driver's door side of the steering whel to keep passengers from monkeying with it.

 - Erik

 

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Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:17 PM

I can see where this, added to my first scenario, could contribute to her pulling forward, she may have panicked and decided that going ahead was faster than trying to figure out reverse.

My Challenger has the Mercedes German NIG auto stick transmission, it can be driven just like a automatic or a 5 speed manual.

The gear shift is mounted in the center console, looks just like every console mounted automatic shifter, but when you put it in D for drive, if you pull the shifter to the left, 90 degrees towards the driver, the car shifts into first gear, and the computer drops the automatic, you drive it like a normal 5 speed manual, except no clutch pedal, it has a "double plate clutch" feel, every time you pull the shifter to the left it down shifts, push it right, it shifts up...you have to shift all the way up to 5, then again to go back to D automatic, then and only then can you shift to reverse...confusing till you use it a lot, and if I remember, her SUV has the same transmission, only the shift feature  is on a stalk on the right side of the wheel, and uses buttons to select gears.

If so, there is a lot of lost time, with her going from park to whatever gear she was in.

23 17 46 11

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:08 PM

Even today there are a wide variety of shift patterns for big trucks.

My pickup has a fairly standard "PRNDL," except that there's no "L" (no pun intended).  Instead, there's a little switch on the shift lever with which to manually shift gears if so desired.

Our fire department brush truck, however, adds an "M" to the mix for such manual shifting.  It's a pain, as the shifter seems to find that more easily than "D."

Back in the day there was a series of movies called "The Bowery Boys."  I saw them as syndicated reruns on TV.

One of the characters ran a garage.  When first confronted with an automatic transmission, he was a bit confused.  He managed to sort it all out in his own inimitable way, however, and the car finally left the garage set up for "D for Day Driving, N for Night Driving, and R for Right Straight Ahead."   With the obvious comical results.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:55 PM

There used to be an advertisement that declared, "It isn't nice to fool Mother Nature." Certainly it is not nice to introduce a new pattern of shifting in a motor vehicle without giving careful instruction to all drivers of such a vehicle.

Back when more car manufacturers were beginning to put automatic transmissions into their products, it seemed that each manufacturer had its idea as to the shift pattern--which could well have caused confusion to buyers. Eventually, all manufacturers realized that there should be one pattern, no matter who made the vehicle.

And, when car manufacters began putting three on the floor, some built them with reverse and low on the left and second and high on the right--but Buick built them with second and high on the left and reverse and low on the right (no, I am not old enough to remember when these came out, in the late twenties; I have ridden in one or two,though).

The most sophisticated gear pattern that I have used was one with "grandma," or double low, which used a toggle on the stick to put it into use--and I do not remember now just how it was used (more than fifty years since I drove the truck).

There is the tale of man who, in the late forties, was seen driving a Model T with pieces of the manila paper used to wrap it when it was sold sticking to it in places--when he had learned that Ford was going to start building cars with a "new-fangled shift," he decided to buy two or three of the car he knew how to drive so he would not have to learn how to use the three on the floor.

Johnny

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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:46 PM

edblysard

Maybe Charles Darwin was too much of an optimist?

    In the Gene Pool , it is sink or swim.

 

 


 

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 8:11 PM

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 7:59 PM

As Tom Clancy once wrote a Russian Army general as saying to a Petroleum Minister engineer-type inhis book Red Storm Rising:

"Your precious numbers have their own kind of precision.  People remain people no matter what we try to do with them."

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:06 PM

I received my March issue of Railway Age today.  The editor, in his front column, talks about this accident.  The question has been asked why the driver didn't back off the crossing, but instead pulled forward.

The editor said the design of the vehicle's steering column mounted electronic gearshift may have contributed to the accident.  It operates a little differently then most automatic gearshifts people are used to.  The driver had only purchased the vehicle a few weeks prior and the editor speculates that she may, while in a panic, inadvertently put the vehicle into forward instead of reverse.

Jeff   

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, February 27, 2015 4:44 PM
Who are we to mock the stupid?
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Posted by edblysard on Friday, February 27, 2015 4:29 PM

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, February 27, 2015 4:07 PM

I hope you are not saying "Eliminate People". 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, February 27, 2015 8:53 AM

Jim in Fla
The LIRR had stop signs at some of the "country road" RR crossings out in the Hamptons back in the 1960s. No gates at those crossings though, at the time.
 

Warning signs, Active Crossing Components(gates/lights,etc) are effective, ONLY if the motor vehicle operator is inclined to obey those warnings.  If said motorist is judging their own risk at that time( to make it/or not make it across BEFORE The train arrives).

The argument seems to become somewhat academic.  NO amount of warning signage, or warning devices will be effective in precluding a collision between the train, and the motor vehicle.   Those devices count on the individual, and that person's sense of obeying laws or their own sense risk management.Mischief[

Some time back I worked with a Traffic Engineer whose big complaint then, was that even with the best traffic signal program, the biggest fault was that the motorists could screw it up at every change of the lights.                      It's  People. People are the problem!Sigh

 

 


 

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Posted by Jim in Fla on Friday, February 27, 2015 8:19 AM
The LIRR had stop signs at some of the "country road" RR crossings out in the Hamptons back in the 1960s. No gates at those crossings though, at the time.
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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, February 26, 2015 9:30 PM
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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:50 PM

rdamon

MTA chief calls for safety improvements at railroad grade crossings

 

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/thomas-prendergast-mta-chief-calls-for-safety-improvements-at-railroad-grade-crossings-1.9977486

"Grade crossing safety is one of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's highest priorities, agency chairman and chief executive Thomas Prendergast said, and all strategies to reduce crossing accidents are on the table, including investments in new technology and possibly eliminating some crossings."

 

 

 

 

That is good news.  I will send him my third rail crash protector idea.

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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:33 PM

MTA chief calls for safety improvements at railroad grade crossings

 

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/thomas-prendergast-mta-chief-calls-for-safety-improvements-at-railroad-grade-crossings-1.9977486

"Grade crossing safety is one of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's highest priorities, agency chairman and chief executive Thomas Prendergast said, and all strategies to reduce crossing accidents are on the table, including investments in new technology and possibly eliminating some crossings."

 

 

 

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Thursday, February 26, 2015 11:00 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

There is still the problem that the third rail is energized at 600-750 volts DC.

   I was well aware of the voltage on the third rail, but I still think I would rather have it outside the train than inside.

_____________ 

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Posted by Norm48327 on Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:37 PM

So you think questioning the advisibility of having a 40 ton block of concrete where rail cars can impact it is absurd? I guess you'd prefer to throw safety to the winds.

Norm


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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:34 PM

schlimm

 

 
Murphy Siding

 

 
schlimm

 

 
Norm48327

Using the standard weight of concrete at 150 lb per cu ft, that block would weigh 76,800 lbs. Do you think that would be safe for a rail car to hit at speed?

 

 

 

Perhaps you would volunteer for the test?  Bang Head

 

 

 

 

  Is your snarky, rude comment on norm48327's  post aimed at him; or aimed at euclid?  What's your issue with pointing out a concrete figure- the weight of euclid's prpoposed monolith- into the discussion? 

 

 

 

 
Snarky?  Question  1.  There was an emoji Bang Head suggestive of levity. Perhaps you'd prefer something else?  Wink  or   Hmm  2.  The comment was aiming at the absurdity of both posters' comments.    3.  To paraphrase: If you have to ask, you probably aren't really interested in an answer anyway.
 

  Prefer something else?  Like what?  A semi-colon? Whistling

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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