Back in 1967, My Dad, and I rode the "Golden State" from Coolidge, Arizona to Chicago, Ill via the Southern Pacific-Rock Island Golden State route. I was 10, and I can still remember when it pulled up to the depot. a "Rock Island" F- unit was in the lead. I can remember the Conductor and the Porter entertained the pasengers with songs... It was a good trip through El Paso, Kansas, Rock Island, Ill all the way to The Station in the Windy City! to quote from a song,' It was a mighty good line!'.
@aricat ... Noteworthy indeed. DesMoines' Rock Island station was better located for city access and was a great example of "prarie station architure". Train frequency was better too ! Don't know if the station is still there ... but it was a favorite of mine for years while stationed in Iowa. Miss it alot.
samfp1943, I, too, grew up on the RI Choctaw Route where it crossed the Katy at McAlester, OK., 1940 to 1954 when I grad from HS. It ws a great interchange an I always thought RI business was good. Went straightwest to connect w/ SP at Tumcancari,NM. Rode the Passenger to Calif in summer of 1950, Memphis to a wedding in winter 1951. I barely recall WW II and business was really good then. Very sad to see it go. I seem to recall they had a lot of labor problems that the Katy (my family worked on the Katy) did not seem to have.
Northtowne
Bus: It seems logical; but have you seen a news story that we haven't, one comparable to the one shown us by Schlimm on Chicago-Rockford?
Electroliner 1935 Now the new governor has put a hold on the Chicago to Rockford Amtrak route, I expect that the Quad Cities route may be next.
Now the new governor has put a hold on the Chicago to Rockford Amtrak route, I expect that the Quad Cities route may be next.
The governor but a hold on all transportation capital expenditures, it's all ready done.
sigengr The Rock only had two passenger trains when Amtrak started. Chicago-Peoria and Chicago-Quad Cities. The Illinois Commerce Commission wouldn't allow abandonment of those routes.
The Rock only had two passenger trains when Amtrak started. Chicago-Peoria and Chicago-Quad Cities. The Illinois Commerce Commission wouldn't allow abandonment of those routes.
I have read that was an issue raised during the deliberations by Rock management on whether they would join Amtrak or not. The idea of a temporary extension of the QC Rocket across the Mississippi to Davenport, IA was apparently considered. I'm fairly sure that they could have found some way to join if the will had been there regardless of the wishes of the IL DOT since that was the whole point of Amtrak's creation. My understanding is that the cost of joining coupled with the cash flow problems caused by the loss of the IL subsidy payments tipped the balance to staying out.
I have tried to find part 2 of the article I linked, but have had no luck.
Search engine quiries have turned up other articles relating to the condition of the Rock Island from the era subsequent to the Reid Moore collapse. An academic library may have part 2, but not available online.
Search engine quiries also linked to I. C. C. reports on Reid - Moore's financial manipulations of the Rock Island and the Frisco. There are doubtless court decisions to be found relating to sorting out the Rock Island's financial mess related to Reid - Moore's mismanagment
I remember talking with a retired Rock Island Engineer almost 50 years ago. Ironically, that gentleman's last name was Reid, no relation to Reid of Reid - Moore. He hired on as a fireman during Reid - Moore's management of the Rock Island.
Engineer Reid would raise his voice in anger when talking about Reid - Moore syndicate and what they did to the Rock Island. After over 50 years with the Rock Island, Engineer Reid was worried about his old employer finding a suitable merger partner when I knew him.
Engineer Reid died a few years before his beloved Rock Island Railroad.
Victoria,
The item you supplied is the first part of a two part article.
Can you also supply part 2?
Mac
The Reid-Moore Syndicate took over the RI in the early 1900s and had control until 1915 when their house of cards collapsed. I've seen period articles saying that the property was already run down. Those articles were from the point of view of Wall Street. Most other observers view the R-M Syndicate as taking a good property, looting as much money for their own purposes as they could and letting the physical condition slide.
(For a modern example, think what might have happened if The Children's Fund had gotten control of CSX a few years back.)
I've often wondered if R-M hadn't taken control, things might have turned out different.
One might say that in one thing for most of it's life, at least in the 20th century, the RI excelled in was bad management.
Jeff
That Rock Island Fiasco
The Dream of Railroad Empire Which Failed - How the Steel Barons Bought a Railroad "Lemon" - The Ill Fated Rock Island Pyramid.
https://books.google.com/books?id=j2LPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA876&dq=The+Magazine+of+Wall+Street+Rock+Island+Railroad&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YDPRVK7kM4-SyATejoDQCw&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Magazine%20of%20Wall%20Street%20Rock%20Island%20Railroad&f=false
The Magazine of Wall Street's take on the state of the Rock Island Railroad in 1916. The Rock Island survived despite the odds until 1980. That the Rock Island took so long to finally die is amazing.
The Rock Island certainly excelled at being abused and staying alive. The title the Rasputin of railroads may apply.
http://www.historicmysteries.com/the-mysterious-death-of-grigori-rasputin/
Chicago & North Western reached Council Bluffs, IA 1867. Union Pacific's transcon opened 1869. Later the same year, the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific Railroad reached Council Bluffs. (Council Bluffs, IA, being the eastern terminus of the UP transcon rather than Omaha, NE.)
Not sure who got to Omaha first, but the Rock Island line is now owned and operated by Iowa Interstate RR.
Would it be fair to say the Rock Island excelled at its parts being worth more to others than the sum of the whole?
The other line UP was apparently interested in was KC-StL. Of course the MoPac was eventually a better grab. In the end, no one wanted the RI thru MO.
The Union Pacific ended up with almost all of the Rock Island they would have acquired through merger. The biggest exception is what they wanted most back then, the Chicago - Council Bluffs line.
They even ended up with a part that they had agreed to sell to the SP. The Golden State route west of Kansas City.
Ruppert Baird It has always occured to me that if the Rock Island could have changed its corporate mindset and reorganized itself as a regional/shortline holding company, it would still be with us. Look at all the ex-CRI&P lines that are still extant. But, the trunk line corporate mindset killed The Rock.
It has always occured to me that if the Rock Island could have changed its corporate mindset and reorganized itself as a regional/shortline holding company, it would still be with us. Look at all the ex-CRI&P lines that are still extant. But, the trunk line corporate mindset killed The Rock.
I'm not sure that the Rock Island could have pulled off a transformation of that sort during the bankruptcy proceedings. In reality, that isn't too far from what actually happened. The surviving parts were sold off, the creditors paid in full and the bankruptcy was lifted, and the corporate shell of the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific Railroad became the Chicago Pacific Corporation.
The Iowa Interstate owns/leases the track from Blue Island to Council Bluffs. Portions of the track is leased to the IAIS from the CSX* and Metra**(*Bureau to Joliet, **Joliet to Blue Island and *Bureau to Henry, IL).
IAIS has track rights over the CRANDIC former Milwaukee Road Amana Main from South Amana to Cedar Rapids.
http://www.iaisrr.com
The Rock excelled in having better routes in the sense that of the grangers (Q, IC, C&NW, Milw, etc) more original RI miles are still be place than the others. It's main thru Iowa touched more pop. centers than the others as well as another gentleman pointed out.
The Rock Island didn't exactly excel at merger delay, it was more of a victim. You need to remember that FOUR railroads were involved in the RI merger case, UP and SP on one side and C&NW and Santa Fe on the other side.
The Rock Island excelled at attempted merger delay.
The Rock Island's attempted merger with the Union Pacific dragged on for almost ten years. While the merger process dragged on, the Rock Island literally had rails descending into rotted ties and weeds. After all the manuvering by other railroads and other interested parties the I. C. C. finally approved the merger.
By that time, why marry with no dowry?
The Rock Island did excell at rescuing other American railroads. The Rock Island's demise and dismemberment pointed out the need for and helped lead to the passage of the Staggers Act.
Is it possible the The Rock Island could afford to service those marginal grain lines longer, because they didn't have as much invested in them? It seems the old RI lines in our area were nothing special as far as construction or facilities.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Victrola1 The Rock Island excelled at retaining marginal branch lines longer than most grangers.
The Rock Island excelled at retaining marginal branch lines longer than most grangers.
[quote user="carnej1"]
richhotrain And let's not forget Lonnie Donegan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXQgG98VSOs Rich Leadbelly had the first "hit" with that tune, I gather it is an older traditional song..
And let's not forget Lonnie Donegan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXQgG98VSOs
Rich
Leadbelly had the first "hit" with that tune, I gather it is an older traditional song..
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Island_Line
'The earliest known version of "Rock Island Line" was written in 1929 by Clarence Wilson, a member of the Rock Island Colored Booster Quartet, a singing group made up of employees of the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad at the Biddle Shops freight yard in Little Rock, Arkansas. The lyrics to this version are largely different to the version that later evolved and became famous, with verses describing people and activities associated with the yard.
John Lomax recorded "Rock Island Line" sung by prisoners in Arkansas twice in 1934.
Lead Belly recorded the song at Washington, D.C. on June 22, 1937"
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
[quote user="richhotrain"]
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
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