CBTJust saw a bit underpowerd UP autorack train go by. It seems like all autorack trains now are a bit underpowerd?
Might not have been all that underpowered - although I'm not up to speed on HP/T calculations and certainly have no idea what numbers to plug in for that example.
Underpowered was the ICG train I saw back in the 70's in Rantoul. Normal loaded coal trains had around 90 or so cars, and plenty of power.
One night I saw a rather dim headlight coming south, quite slowly.
Two locomotives passed the station, pulling for all they were worth (there's an upgrade coming south into Rantoul), and on a hunch, I started counting cars (easy - they weren't exactly flying by). I don't recall the exact count, but it amounted to about double a normal loaded coal train.
I figure they were short power but needed the empties, so these two locomotives were left to slug their way south with two trains worth of cars. In today's horsepower terms, that was about 1.5 locomotives worth for a ? two mile long train.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
What is your definition of underpowered?
15000 tons and 2 units is normal operations for CN. .4 or .5 hpt being normal operations.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
ChuckAllen, TX
One up front of 80 loaded autoracks and one in the back isn't unusual across Illinois and Iowa.
Jeff
2 on the head end and 120 loaded auto racks is the norm on my territory.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
traisessive1What is your definition of underpowered?
My definition would be "not enough power to handle the train at normal/expected speeds."
But that's just me.
tree68 traisessive1 My definition would be "not enough power to handle the train at normal/expected speeds." But that's just me.
traisessive1
Your expected speeds or the carriers expected speeds with the power assigned to it.
BaltACDYour expected speeds or the carriers expected speeds with the power assigned to it.
The carrier, of course.
I would expect that a carrier would expect a given train to be able to maintain a certain speed and would normally assign the appropriate power to achieve that speed. Especially on a busy corridor, having all trains running at their "design" speed would be desirable, otherwise things could get balled up even worse than they can otherwise.
Witness the effect Amtrak or a "high/wide" has on a double track corridor.
Crews are an issue as well - while the CSX St Lawrence Division was a 25 MPH line, it took two crews to get a train from Syracuse to Massena. Now, at 40 MPH, they can again do it with one.
I would opine that an underpowered train would likely occur due to one of a couple possibilities - one, the example I gave where the train was bigger than usual, the other, where the normally required power was not available for some reason (power shortage, unit failed enroute, etc).
Just my observations. Corrections welcome.
That doesn't surprise me. The auto industry has had problems with rail transport for a few years now due to engine shortages. That shortage has increased the overall delivery time for new orders getting to the dealers and has caused a lot of complaints.
traisessive1 What is your definition of underpowered? 15000 tons and 2 units is normal operations for CN. .4 or .5 hpt being normal operations.
BaltACD tree68 traisessive1 My definition would be "not enough power to handle the train at normal/expected speeds." But that's just me. Your expected speeds or the carriers expected speeds with the power assigned to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq_EhQt-QU
Here's a video where a underpowered double stack on Indian Railroads as it just tops the hill.
SushiLoverThe auto industry has had problems with rail transport for a few years now due to engine shortages.
A few years? Try 40+ that I know about. There was a GM assembly plant somewhere along the Hudson River (Poughkeepsie? High Bridge? Yonkers?) that frequently had "shutdown" cars. These were car loads, usually of engines but sometimes other parts, that had to be delivered to the assembly plant "yesterday" or the plant would be shutdown and cost GM millions. There were times, of course, when NYC was at fault but it was more normal that the car had not been released by the engine or other parts plant in time to make the cutoff. I remember many times when a crew would be called and a "train" of one or two cars dispatched from Selkirk to that assembly plant.
I think a lot of you guys are so used to seeing well powered trains that when you see one that is 'normal' powered you think it's underpowered. Loaded auto trains are not near as heavy as other loaded trains. An empty auto train will do just fine with one unit where there are no substantial grades.
cefinkjr SushiLover A few years? Try 40+ that I know about. There was a GM assembly plant somewhere along the Hudson River (Poughkeepsie? High Bridge? Yonkers?) that frequently had "shutdown" cars. These were car loads, usually of engines but sometimes other parts, that had to be delivered to the assembly plant "yesterday" or the plant would be shutdown and cost GM millions. There were times, of course, when NYC was at fault but it was more normal that the car had not been released by the engine or other parts plant in time to make the cutoff. I remember many times when a crew would be called and a "train" of one or two cars dispatched from Selkirk to that assembly plant.
SushiLover
Worked territory that served two GM Assembly plants. Daily train originating in Michigan would handle 80-120 car loads of parts for the two plants. In the days of cabooses, a cab would be the 'cut car' between the blocks for the two plant's cars.
Upon arrival at each plant's serving yard, cars would be switched as ordered by GM - some from the arriving train and some from the on hand inventory and they would get placed in the plant to support continuing production of the assembly lines. Frequently some of the arriving cars were considered 'shut down' cars by GM. In some cases the shut down cars had been delayed by the railroad (shopped for various reasons); some times they were 'shut down' for reasons known only to GM - whatever the reason, the carrier cooperated with GM to solve the issues. Worst 'shut down' issue I witnessed, GM sent a truck from their plant to meet a specific car as it came off the Main Track to unload 20 or 30 items that were needed to continue that nights production.
Feeding a production line is the epitome of JIT - just in time inventory management and with that being the case, there will always be 'shut down' cars - it is the way the system is designed.
I think the GM plant was in Tarrytown, NY - methinks they made minivans there. Really bad minivans...
Back in the 1980's and early 1990's, a lot of so-called JIT systems were that in name only - in a lot of cases, it was just a matter of using the same old supply chain and forcing your vendors to shoulder all the costs of inventory and supply management. The suppliers eventually learned how to identify the real costs in this process, and today's systems usually drive the overall costs right down to the optimum level, no matter who is paying the bill.
Having been a operations manager for a large less-than-truckload trucking company in terminals that supported major vehicle plants, I can verify that "shutdown shipments" were the bane of our miserable lives. Typically, we'd see 40-50 LTL shipments from as many suppliers arrive at the delivering terminal every day. The phone would start ringing about 4 AM, telling us which particular parts were needed at which dock at what time that day. If all or part of a shipment wasn't needed that day, we were expected hold it until directed for delivery. At times, we could have 40-50 trailerloads of LTL shipments stacked up in the yard - and of course, they never called for them in the order we had loaded them. It wasn't unusual to handle a given shipment 5-6 times before we delivered it. Sometimes we'd have as much as a month of shipments from a particular supplier stacked up, especially for parts that were used only when a plant was producing a certain option package for a few days a month (say, rear spoilers for a "sport model" package). Of couse, we'd get the dreaded 11 am call telling us to pull the all eight pallets of the Wombat Widgets shipment from four days ago, the two pallets of part ABD from their shipment made sixteen days ago, and just 1 pallet of part CED from nine days ago - and have 'em at dock X by 2 pm or we'd have to pay a shutdown penalty.On the long-haul OTR runs to Ohio from the west coast staging forwarders (import parts) and domestic suppliers, at least once a week we'd have to hunt down a linehaul team somewhere out in the wilderness (in the days before cell phones, this wan't easy), have them duck into one of our terminals or a for-hire crossdock faciliy in someplace like Missoula or Tulsa, dig out a few pallets of parts, and arrange to to take said parts to meet a chartered plane to fly the stuff to an assembly plant.
I can only imagine what the corresponding process would be like on the railroad. . And they wonder why we leave...
Would the loss of tractive effort on a single engine 120 car train have any effect on the engines performance?? just courious.
switch7frg
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
CatFoodFlambeI think the GM plant was in Tarrytown, NY
Yes, the GM plant was indeed in Tarrytown, NY. I grew up in Yonkers which is about fifteen miles south of Tarrytown. The GM plant was in the shadow of the Tappan Zee bridge on the east bank of the Hudson River and I passed by it many, many times as a kid and young adult.
I just clicked onto the Rochelle webcam and a split second later I heard a horn and what did I see coming eastbound but the UP office car special train with one G.E. unit (couldn't tell what model as it is still somewhat dark here) and a whole pile of office cars including at least three or four domes. Such a nice thing to wake up to on a Saturday morning.
switch7frg Would the loss of tractive effort on a single engine 120 car train have any effect on the engines performance?? just courious. switch7frg
The loss of tractive effort on a single engine anything - even a light engine move will have at a minimum near catastrophic results ending in lack of movement. If the engine doesn't have the abiltity to move it isn't much good as an engine.
Was kind of cool to watch a BNSF roll by in the dark while being silhouetted by a waiting UP's headlights.
Anyone know when the UP will activate the new signals they have erected and remove the old ones?
Nice Photo of the local on RailPictures ..
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=552002&nseq=100
rdamon Nice Photo of the local on RailPictures .. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=552002&nseq=100
I'm not a real big fan of Diseasels but I have to admit this is a very nice photo. But, help us out here; wouldn't the park pavilion (where the web cam is located) be visible if BNSF 2008 were not there?
cefinkjr http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=552002&nseq=100 I'm not a real big fan of Diseasels but I have to admit this is a very nice photo. But, help us out here; wouldn't the park pavilion (where the web cam is located) be visible if BNSF 2008 were not there? This photo seems to be facing East. But, the park pavilion is to the left, behind the trees and outside the view of view even if the trees weren't there.
This photo seems to be facing East. But, the park pavilion is to the left, behind the trees and outside the view of view even if the trees weren't there.
No--the edge of the pavilion's roof is visible to the right of the locomotive, about on a line with the swoosh on the hood. We're looking toward the diamonds.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR No--the edge of the pavilion's roof is visible to the right of the locomotive, about on a line with the swoosh on the hood. We're looking toward the diamonds.
Yeah, I believe that you are correct. The photo faces west and the concrete slab is the rise to the pavillion.
Is that a GP40? And what are the two white blisters on top of the cab?
/Mr Lynn
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