Trains.com

Semi-official Rochelle webcam discussion thread

373237 views
3712 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, July 8, 2015 9:31 AM

Maybe the approach circuit is farther out on the BNSF side.

Jeff

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 8, 2015 2:47 PM

When it comes to 'automatic crossing interlockings' in CTC territory there can be two kinds.  The truly automatic which is first come, first served - PERIOD. 

The second kind is similar, except the Train Dispatcher will control the 'request' by authorizing a signal across the diamond, which says a train is present if it is on the approach circuit.  With this kind of operation, the Absolute Signals protecting the crossing can also be used as 'Hold Out' signals and thus protect facilities that are beyond the crossing interlocking.

I understand Global 3 yard is just West of the crossing on the UP.  UP Dispatcher could hold his request for a signal over the crossing while yard moves were taking place on the main just West of the crossing.  Once the yard moves were completed, then the Dispatcher would request the signal and if no BNSF movements had activated the crossing, then the UP signal would line.  I have no idea what kinds of BNSF facilities are on either side of the crossing, the BNSF Dispatcher may have a similar set up.

This type set up permits trains to be 'paused' closer to terminal facilities rather than at the next control point in advance of the facility being protected.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, July 8, 2015 4:18 PM

tree68
 
blhanel
Maybe it's because of the location of the interlocking control points, but it seems like BNSF gets "preference" when it comes to who's likely to get the green lights. 

 

Someone wrote here at some point who was first at the location, but I forget who it was.  One might presume that they might claim preference in that regard.

Another factor might be that BNSF is only double track through Rochelle - the rest of the line is single track.  Thus they don't have the ability to "stack" trains like UP does on their two tracks.

BNSF's double track only goes from Steward to Flagg Center - maybe 10-12 miles tops.

 

UP Side got here in May 1855 (Chicago & Galena Union); BNSF side showed-up in January 1871(Chicago & Iowa / Ogle & Carroll) along with the IR side to Rockford (also Chicago & Iowa/Chicago Rockville & Northern 7/1/1875) going north out of Flagg Center.

Interlocking plants are always quirky and unpredictable. Some of that is the nature of the signal block and switch circuit rules which are brain damage in their own right.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Thursday, July 9, 2015 8:09 AM

Early morning light seems to be better for seeing detail.

I do not see anything attached to the new wooden pole by the switch, but I see a new electrical equipment near the switch stand. Could BNSF be installing a powered switch there? 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Thursday, July 9, 2015 1:48 PM

1:47 CDST ...  Noticed a large red tank on the other side of the UP tracks.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 267 posts
Posted by CatFoodFlambe on Thursday, July 9, 2015 6:40 PM

rdamon

I do not see anything attached to the new wooden pole by the switch, but I see a new electrical equipment near the switch stand. Could BNSF be installing a powered switch there? 

 

A question about the switch and the circuit layout..

I noticed that when the local comes off the lead, they drop the conductor and/or brakeman , and that the engineer then immedately moves the train farther east.

The ground crewman then relines the switch and has to walk to catch up with the train.   Does the equipment need to move east to clear a street crossing circuit, the interlocking circuit, or for some other reason?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 9, 2015 8:17 PM

I suspect the engine (and cars) are moving to be beyond the signal controlling the crossing, so that they can move at maximum authorized speed on signal indication rather than, restricted speed to the next signal when entering a signaled track at a unsignaled location.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: South Dakota
  • 1,592 posts
Posted by Dakguy201 on Friday, July 10, 2015 8:10 AM

BaltACD

I suspect the engine (and cars) are moving to be beyond the signal controlling the crossing, so that they can move at maximum authorized speed on signal indication rather than, restricted speed to the next signal when entering a signaled track at a unsignaled location.

 

 
Perhaps that is true, but I've noticed the same thing.  Upon exit to the mainline the man at the switch watches the train pull away, but he makes no move to realign the switch until the train is at least four or five car lengths away.  In contrast, to enter that siding they pull up to within a few feet of the switch before throwing it for the siding.
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 267 posts
Posted by CatFoodFlambe on Friday, July 10, 2015 8:33 AM

Dakguy201

 When the crew enters the lead, they leave the switch lined for the lead while they're working, so I suspect alignment the switch for the lead "reds" the BNSF south track in any case.  (I would also guess that it frees up the south track diamonds for the UP to cross (provided another BNSF train using the north track hasn't captured the interlocking).  

 
BaltACD

I suspect the engine (and cars) are moving to be beyond the signal controlling the crossing, so that they can move at maximum authorized speed on signal indication rather than, restricted speed to the next signal when entering a signaled track at a unsignaled location.

 

 

 
Perhaps that is true, but I've noticed the same thing.  Upon exit to the mainline the man at the switch watches the train pull away, but he makes no move to realign the switch until the train is at least four or five car lengths away.  In contrast, to enter that siding they pull up to within a few feet of the switch before throwing it for the siding.
 

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: Calgary AB. Canada
  • 2,298 posts
Posted by AgentKid on Friday, July 10, 2015 1:44 PM

CatFoodFlambe
(I would also guess that it frees up the south track diamonds for the UP to cross (provided another BNSF train using the north track hasn't captured the interlocking).

That would be corect. I have seen several instances of UP trains crossing the diamonds while BNSF is working the spur. It was intersting once though when a EB UP train just came up to the diamond as BNSF was pushing some centre beam flats around the curve. I know they have the clearance issues worked out, but I bet you the UP engineer was clenching more than his teeth for a couple of moments there.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 10, 2015 2:42 PM

CatFoodFlambe
Dakguy201

 When the crew enters the lead, they leave the switch lined for the lead while they're working, so I suspect alignment the switch for the lead "reds" the BNSF south track in any case.  (I would also guess that it frees up the south track diamonds for the UP to cross (provided another BNSF train using the north track hasn't captured the interlocking).  

BaltACD

I suspect the engine (and cars) are moving to be beyond the signal controlling the crossing, so that they can move at maximum authorized speed on signal indication rather than, restricted speed to the next signal when entering a signaled track at a unsignaled location.

 
Perhaps that is true, but I've noticed the same thing.  Upon exit to the mainline the man at the switch watches the train pull away, but he makes no move to realign the switch until the train is at least four or five car lengths away.  In contrast, to enter that siding they pull up to within a few feet of the switch before throwing it for the siding.

Movement off the Main tracks is at restricted speed anyway and I would expect the best signal indication available to a BNSF train with the switch open would be Restricting.  With the switch closed, the best signal indication would be Clear depending upon conditions on the West side of the diamond.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, July 10, 2015 5:24 PM

I can't get a good look at the switch, guess I'll have to make a trip to Rochelle, but it appears it might have an electric/time lock appliance.  If it does, they probably need to get the engine into the block (interlocking plant) to avoid "running time" on the lock.     

I wonder, being it's an automatic interlocking, if either line's wayside signals can give a Restricting indication through the plant.  If they can't get a restricting, they wouldn't open the switch until the engine is in the plant.  If you have to pull into the plant anyway, you might as well pull up to the switch. 

Not seeing the operation, I'm guessing the engine pulls up and stops.  Leaving, once the train is moving they just might not be in any hurry to restore the switch.  Let the cars get a little distance between them and the switch once it's clear.

Jeff    

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 10, 2015 6:10 PM

jeffhergert

I can't get a good look at the switch, guess I'll have to make a trip to Rochelle, but it appears it might have an electric/time lock appliance.  If it does, they probably need to get the engine into the block (interlocking plant) to avoid "running time" on the lock.     

I wonder, being it's an automatic interlocking, if either line's wayside signals can give a Restricting indication through the plant.  If they can't get a restricting, they wouldn't open the switch until the engine is in the plant.  If you have to pull into the plant anyway, you might as well pull up to the switch. 

Not seeing the operation, I'm guessing the engine pulls up and stops.  Leaving, once the train is moving they just might not be in any hurry to restore the switch.  Let the cars get a little distance between them and the switch once it's clear.

Jeff 

With the BNSF track speed being over 20 MPH, the hand throw switch would have to be Electric Locked.  The move I normally see is the engine (both with and without cars) coming from the West.  Stopping to let the conductor off to operate the switch after the move clears the switch.  The move moves onto the spur - I have not noticed the switch being closed at this time, however, I suspect in some cases it does get closed.  Engine returns with cars trailing it.  Movement proceeds East of the plant and the Conductor closes the switch and (most likely) on signal indication the movement moves West across the diamond to its destination.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Friday, July 10, 2015 6:36 PM

Could the pole just be there to move to commercial power so they can decomission the code line?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 10, 2015 8:33 PM

rdamon

Could the pole just be there to move to commercial power so they can decomission the code line?

Don't know about BNSF.  Most locations on my carrier have gone to radio code line. 

What can be seen from the camera position would make me think the signal bungalow in the camera foreground is the control unit for the BNSF signals, and is probably connected by underground cable with the UP signal control unit so that both units can communicate with each other.

The pole adjacent to the BNSF bungalow and pole line, I would think is carrying power and controls to the BNSF signals for the control point that is the Rochelle diamond.  It is possible that BNSF is still using hard wire code line, I have no knowledge if they are or not.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, July 10, 2015 8:48 PM

BaltACD
Don't know about BNSF.  Most locations on my carrier have gone to radio code line. 

The area around the North Baltimore IM facility went satellite, I'm told.  Now there's a "hole" in the ATCS feed...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2015
  • 26 posts
Posted by Jim611 on Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 PM

In my observations, when the BNSF local comes out of the siding, it continues East.  I speculate that the local pulls East to get out of the interlocking and to not block the first road crossing.  Once the local is out of the interlocking, the conductor closes the switch and walks East to the train and most of the time, the local continues East. 

The other day there was a Westbound BNSF intermodal steamship container train going by on the North track.  After about 10 cars went by, a Westbound BNSF intermodal domestic container train came up on the other track passing the first train.  The first train stopped for a couple of minutes and then an Eastbound oil train came by.  After the first train left, it was followed by a general freight train.  In looking at satelite, it looks like there is a switch near the end of the double track.  My question is, is it long enough West of the switch to the end of the double track to hold an oil train?

Thanks

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 12, 2015 9:58 AM

tree68
BaltACD
Don't know about BNSF.  Most locations on my carrier have gone to radio code line. 

 

The area around the North Baltimore IM facility went satellite, I'm told.  Now there's a "hole" in the ATCS feed...

 

C&S personnel are always looking for the latest, greatest, most economical way to solve the needs of signalling territory.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, July 12, 2015 1:03 PM

C&S personnel are always looking for the latest, greatest, most economical capital intensive way to solve the needs of signalling territory.

(and they never re-use/ recycle anything ...always gotta be newMischief)

 

 

 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 267 posts
Posted by CatFoodFlambe on Monday, July 13, 2015 12:53 PM

Jim611
In looking at satelite, it looks like there is a switch near the end of the double track.  My question is, is it long enough West of the switch to the end of the double track to hold an oil train?

Thanks

 

 

 

   Looks there's about 9,000  to 10,000 feet between the Route 38 grade crossing just west of the rail junction to the signals controlling the switch at the end of the  double track.   A oil train would likely fit, but a long vehicle or intermodal might not. 

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, July 13, 2015 1:06 PM

deleted

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 13, 2015 2:01 PM

mudchicken

C&S personnel are always looking for the latest, greatest, most economical capital intensive way to solve the needs of signalling territory.

(and they never re-use/ recycle anything ...always gotta be newMischief)

Maybe in your experience - in mine - a new major interlocking was installed about 1/2 mile West of an existing interlocking that was retired.  All the switch machines from the retired interlocking ended up in a new interlocking about 200 miles away - non-dual controlled switch machines, that in my mind should have been scrapped as if the switch won't throw under the dispatchers control, it requires a maintainer to get it to throw under any circumstance.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • 72 posts
Posted by John Liebson on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 3:54 PM

Bucks, does, or perhaps more correctly, John Deere tractors?

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • 59 posts
Rochelle John Deers
Posted by alpinemike on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 3:54 PM

Fun to see all the John Deer Tractors heading southbound on web cam   nice

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • 161 posts
Posted by denveroutlaws06 on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 6:23 PM

about what days and times does BNSF work the spur?

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Champaign, IL
  • 185 posts
Posted by DennisHeld on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 6:42 PM

I don't think that it is a BNSF local.  But it is a switch job from the City of Rochelle Railroad.  Owned by Burlington Junction.  There is a smallish yard SE of Rochelle from which they operate.  They handle all the local switching of BNSF and UP, not including Global III.  

But, I usually see the switch job mid to late mornings on weekdays.  Dunno if they operate the weekends.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 9:09 PM

DennisHeld

I don't think that it is a BNSF local.  But it is a switch job from the City of Rochelle Railroad.  Owned by Burlington Junction.  There is a smallish yard SE of Rochelle from which they operate.  They handle all the local switching of BNSF and UP, not including Global III.  

But, I usually see the switch job mid to late mornings on weekdays.  Dunno if they operate the weekends.

Their website.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:38 AM

Doing a little "driving around" with Google Streetview. I see that the code line is mainly just in the Rochelle city limits.

SE side

https://goo.gl/maps/7kTR9

 

NE Side

https://goo.gl/maps/HkzeT

It appears that the lines are only using two bare wires that are assumed to be 220V for power and the large bundles of signal cables. With the PTC upgrades and that conduit that we saw buried near the diamonds I would imagine that they will no longer need the bundled signal wire leaving just the power lines. 

Getting commercial power directly at the bungalows would eliminate the need to the lines and alow for recycling of all the copper.

Personally I hope this isn't the case, because there is not too much code line left and I use the swinging wire to let me know when my feed had stopped working on the camera!

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • 44 posts
Posted by gp18 on Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:33 AM
Are visitors allowed to trespass on railroad property? I just saw someone wearing a red jacket walking up to the diamonds evidently to take a smoke and some pics of the switcher that just made a shove move west.
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Allen, TX
  • 1,320 posts
Posted by cefinkjr on Thursday, July 16, 2015 12:27 PM

gp18
Are visitors allowed to trespass on railroad property?

Officially?  Absolutely not!  Are visitors allowed to trespass on a steel mill's property?  A mine?  A ship?  For your own safety (and to avoid RR liability), trespassing on RR property is strictly fordbidden.

Do we railfans trespass occasionally?  Wellllll ... , yes. Oops

Chuck
Allen, TX

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy