zugmann ndbprrF on a locomotive stands for front not forward. Obviously telling the engineer to go forward would be in regard to the train direction not the locomotive designation. Not always. Depends on the railroad or situation. For example: I am on a local with one engine pulling some cars. Engine is facing forward, short hood lead, F facing the front, etc. I come up to a facing point switch for a siding. The siding is a simple single track terminating at a bumping block. On this isding are two cars. But the customer is requestiong the cars to have their postions switched. So I stop on the main, cut away from the cars I already have a hold of, then throw the switch to line myself into the siding (after thoroughly tying the train down and testing the hold with all avaliable rules, regulations, notices, and trains.com forum discussions). I then give the engineer the "forward" hand signal. We go into the siding and couple the nose of the engine against the cars. Now I want to pull the cars out. What hand signal should I give? I gave a forward to get in here, so naturally, I would give a reverse to exit, even though I am pulling cars out with the engines. If you think about it too much, you will screw it up. It isn't rocket science.
ndbprrF on a locomotive stands for front not forward. Obviously telling the engineer to go forward would be in regard to the train direction not the locomotive designation.
Not always. Depends on the railroad or situation. For example:
I am on a local with one engine pulling some cars. Engine is facing forward, short hood lead, F facing the front, etc. I come up to a facing point switch for a siding. The siding is a simple single track terminating at a bumping block. On this isding are two cars. But the customer is requestiong the cars to have their postions switched. So I stop on the main, cut away from the cars I already have a hold of, then throw the switch to line myself into the siding (after thoroughly tying the train down and testing the hold with all avaliable rules, regulations, notices, and trains.com forum discussions).
I then give the engineer the "forward" hand signal. We go into the siding and couple the nose of the engine against the cars. Now I want to pull the cars out. What hand signal should I give? I gave a forward to get in here, so naturally, I would give a reverse to exit, even though I am pulling cars out with the engines.
If you think about it too much, you will screw it up. It isn't rocket science.
Zug, you may be pulling cars out, but you aren't a train at that point, you're making a switching move. Not that I disagree with the signals you said. I would use the same lantern signals at night as you said. By day it would be hand signals of "come to me" or "go away from me," so then the engine's direction is irrelevant.
On the Boone & Scenic Valley most of their engines are pointed so that the engine pulls the train out of town running backwards. On the return trip the engines are pulling the train back into town facing forward. They require their conductors to give a back up signal when the train is ready to leave town. I think this is incorrect, although they said that the majority of professional railroaders they talked to say it is. While the engine is indeed backing up when leaving town, the train isn't. At that point you aren't signaling for just the engine but the entire train. I think the conductors should give the Proceed hand signal instead. (Most of the rule books that I can recall don't have a signal for Forward, it's for Proceed. Which is usually figured to mean to go forward.) They are signaling for the train to leave town, to proceed to the other end of the line. Not make a reverse move to the other end of the line.
Jeff
Here is how I used to control movements in switching using hand signals. Depending on what kind of locomotive we were using, whether he was or not, I always considered that the engineer was operating on the right side of the locomotive sitting up straight and facing forward. If I wanted him to move in the direction he was facing, he got a proceed signal (straight up & down). If I wanted him to move in the direction behind him, he got a backup signal (circle). Very simple.
The sad truth is that hand signals are a dying art. All of these young bucks will clutter up the airwaves by useing the radio even when standing right in front of you.
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Worked as a Switch Tender at night at a location in Cincinnati. The switches covered the leads to multiple yards as well as Main track movement for multiple railroads. The lead for all the switches covered 5/8 to 3/4 a mile from the top switch to the bottom switch.
The controlling operator lined me up that the next move would be for a Southern job - coming from the top of my territory to the bottom - I lined the route from the top to the bottom and stayed at the bottom to give the move a 'highball' lantern signal to proceed when it showed. After several minutes of giving the highball, and the train still calling for a signal, I walked back up the ladder to find that the engine was headed backward and the Engineer would only accept a back up lantern signal. I felt like giving him his signal back up where the sun don't shine. From 5/8 of a mile there is no way to tell if the headlight you see is on a engine is operating in the forward or reverse direction.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BigJim The sad truth is that hand signals are a dying art. All of these young bucks will clutter up the airwaves by useing the radio even when standing right in front of you.
I like using hand signals as much as possible (I work with some of the oldest guys on the roster), but there are newer engineers that aren't always paying attention to you on the front step of the engine.
But they were probably the same conductors that hogged up all the radio while moving a lite engine around.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
jeffhergert(Most of the rule books that I can recall don't have a signal for Forward, it's for Proceed. Which is usually figured to mean to go forward.) They are signaling for the train to leave town, to proceed to the other end of the line. Not make a reverse move to the other end of the line.
Different places, different roads, different practices. Where I work, we generally use locomotive direction, after all safety briefings. when working with remotes you HAVE to use the controlling locomotive's direction, because that's how the box is wired up. There are times (on real rains controlled by real people in the cabs) you may deviate from locomotive direction, but those are like BaltACD's situation where it should be painfully obvious what is going on.
Trick is to know what gets used where you work and use it.
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