It could be possible to link America by rail?

[Overmod]

Let me chime in on this one quick

Anybody remember how Harold Geneen's career with ITT came to a close -- the Amazon paper mill? Turns out that sustainable biomass removal in the rain forest is extremely difficult -- not very much actual soil, all the organics are in the biota. This rules out most of the traditional kinds of 'land grant' economic subsidies (as well as most of the ideas of growing 'fuel' biomass for locomotives).

This is the principal difficulty with the particular economic model you suggest -- which if I understand it correctly is an attempt to implement 'managed forest' programs (a la the one developed by International Paper) for high-value crops. Another potential problem is that most -- perhaps all -- the valuable 'timber' species take a long time to grow and mature. In countries with substantial built-in inflation, the inherent long-term capitalization is tantamount to economic suicide.

Many areas would require periodic, and perhaps regular, seeding with trace minerals and possibly tailored biological packages. Again, this is up-front money and labor for a very uncertain result. (And I might add that politics is going to angle for using the resources to grow 'food' for all those relocated urban masses being 'transported' from favelas or whatever...)


The point probably needs to be repeated that, of all the ground-transportation modes, the railroad represents, potentially, the least intrusive on the rain forest. If high-speed clearance isn't required, the required loading-gauge clearance could be almost ridiculously small, and keeping growth 'mowed back' would be a simple operation for easily-designed maintenance equipment, if done regularly. With some care, the roadbed can be constructed with regular pass-throughs for the (often very territorially-constrained) indigenous rare species. There is little possibility of unchecked erosion due to properly-managed ROW construction or maintenance. It is, of course, trivial to ferry even very large trucks or trailers even on narrow-gauge equipment without measurable ecological damage, while maintaining full mobility at either end of the ferry move (and, if care is taken, free access to the vehicle contents)

One additional point: The supply of 'petroleum' is essentially limitless if price is not a consideration; even at current world prices for easily-pumped 'reservoir' crude, we're very near the economic break-even point for some processes of fuel synthesis. There is utterly no reason why the convenience of independent road vehicles will somehow disappear even if the factor price of fuel quadruples... I haven't seen measurable impediment to automobile use over the period of time in America that fuel went from, oh, about 35 cents a gallon (adjusted for inflation) to the present $2 or so, and that's about a six-fold increase. You'll just see a change in design priority -- much as has already happened in Europe in response to the high taxed fuel price there -- and changes in the economics of various modes. But I would very definitely NOT make book on the disappearance of hydrocarbon fuels, regardless of whether fossil sources are exhausted.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Pedro,

Here in Australia we have just built a new railway connecting our North coast with the South. It may not be justified commercially, but it will contribute to development in remote areas. Already, two new mines are being discussed because the existence of the railway makes them possible.

Passengers are very happy to travel the new line. There is only one train to Darwin at the North end per week, but the trains run with FORTY cars (four dining cars, four lounge cars and four double deck automobile carriers) each week. The train can't be run more than once a week because it turns around and runs to Alice Springs (in the centre of Australia) for the other days. The passenger operator, Great Southern, will need to buy more cars to run more trains.

I've been to Argentina, and it is quite like Australia (although they have less desert than we do). I think that linking South America by rail could work effectively, as long as a common gauge could be decided. Metre gauge is fairly common, certainly in Argentina and Brazil, and could be used in Chili as it is in Bolivia and Peru. But it would have to be a Government project, and getting agreement might not be easy (even if the Argentinians agreed to speak Portuguese at the meetings).

Peter

I did a bit of research on this for another project,, and the line is mostly a freight railway to link to Darwin's new East Arm container facility. It's supposed to cut the journey time of a container from Sydney to Singapore (and presumeably the other way round) from 12 days to 8 and remove 1 handling operation (handling is always expensive). The people operating it are expecting to make money eventually because they can charge a premium rate. The shipper will pay it because they in turn can offer a better service to their customers and they can have lower stock levels because not as much is in transit (which looks good on the books).

On the original topic,, I wouldn't have thought that there was actually that much trade between Canada and Argentina??

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal


In your estimation, would the concept of the land grant work to expand the rail infrastructure in South America? If my idea was implemented (e.g. not a land grant per se but a granting of a "sustainable endowment" of forest reserves in which the proceeds from the sale of timber is used to pay interest and/or dividends on the equity used to finance the project), would that be possible?

I don´t think so. Railroads in South America are doing merger like class 1 in US. ALL join all south brazilian rails with a big part of Argentina network. The companies here use the idea of "big cargo to big distances", so they don´t care about such projects. Today, the most profitable railroads in Brazil are those operate only with ore. The reason is they have cargo all the year. Those companies that transport agricultural products don´t have cargo all the year. Lumber transportation in Brazil exists only at Jari and EFC rr. Jari is a lumber mill inside amazon forest, that was build by an rich guy in US called Daniel Ludwig. The project now is operated by a brazilian company called Jarcel Celulose. They have only two SD38-2 and a fleet of flat and ore cars. The line has about 70 km long. EFC transport some lumber, but its big bussiness is iron ore.

pedro