UP Big Boy

[Anonymous]

Why does UP or some rich fellow not restore a Big Boy to working order? I know that it would be expensive, but I think that it would be worth the effort and money to restore one, so people could see the world's largest and most powerful steam locomotive in action once more.

[thirdrail1]

The UP has stated that it would not because the Big Boy was intended for a specific service, running trains over Sherman Hill, and cannot be turned at most other locations on the UP. Because if its length, it cannot fit on most turntables nor negotiate the curve radius of most wyes. Unlike its larger sibling, the Challenger could run almost anywhere, so it was the locomotive restored.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your response. I always wondered about that.

[Anonymous]

When the UP began to take delivery of the "big boys" wernt some of the engine facilitys modified to handle them? like the turntables lengthend and also some of the roundhouse stalls? I read this a few months ago in Trains mag. The alco issue wich had an article wriiten by steve lee the manager of UP's steam operation. So why arent some of these turntable's and facilitys still used? where they all tore up or abanded after the retirement of the Big Boys?

[thirdrail1]

Yes, the turntables and roundhouses were modified, at Cheyenne and Green River, Wyoming. The 4-8-8-4's were never used outside of Wyoming on the UP - they were specifically built to conquer Sherman Hill. The 4-6-6-4's were used everywhere else, although the turntable in Ohama could handle Big Boys that came East for shopping.

[Anonymous]

That's what I know : today there's no way of turning a Bigboy. That's why UP decided to keep a Challenger running.
Want to see two beautiful Bigboy models ? Then check out my homepage www.sschaer.com
in the picture galleries there are two Brass Bigboys. One in N-Scale and one in O-Scale (25pounds....)

have fun
Sandro

[alangj]

I'm fairly certain that I've seen a photo (in someone's published collections?) of one of the Big Boys in Denver with a "regular" train, i.e., not a fantrip or other "special", nor diverted there for any servicing. If memory serves me, the photo's caption read that they were occasionally run down there off the Sherman Hill line, and upon returning back north, might either head back to Cheyenne, or else take the "cutoff" line toward the west and Rawlins/Laramie. If I can locate where I saw that photo, I'll pass along the reference.

[Anonymous]

With the railroads going to diesel locomotives, the need for turntables diminished since a diesel locomotive can run long or short hood forward without any decrease in performance(but it does create problems for the crew running it). Now most all of the operating turntables are owned by museums, etc. I only know of one turntable used by a major railroad(CN/IC in Memphis, TN) but there may be more.

Also, the turn radius of a Big Boy is so great that many of the wyes for turning locomotives are too sharp for a Big Boy.

[BRAKIE]

There is avery nice article in the spring issue of Classic Trains.

[BRAKIE]

Man,Its to early in the morning for me to do this.I meant to say in the sring issue of Classic Trains there is a very good article on the big boys.

[Anonymous]

The turtable is by no means a fading relic. Not only do most of the class ones use them at some facility but new turntables have been built in the last decade. UP,if my memory serves,is particularly keen on these devices.

[REDDYK]

My father-in-law, now deceased, told of an incident where a locomotive went on the ground in Indianapolis on a turning wye. All he could recollect was it was a western RR loco, too large for the radius. Reportedly the rail creeled over and it took much effort to re-rail it. Wish I knew whose RR it was. Any historians out there?

[Soo2610]

CP has an active turntable at their engine facility in Bensenville, Il. yard. Takes a telephoto lens to get a good shot of anything on it as access is very limited.

[Anonymous]

I haven't followed this thread all the way, but
does anyone know the status of the Big Boy
restoration started in Texas a few years ago for
use in a movie?

[Anonymous]

I haven't followed this thread all the way, so it may have already been brought, up but does anyone know the status of the Big Boy restoration started in Texas a few years ago for use in a movie?

[thirdrail1]

It died. Ran out of money.

[thirdrail1]

To repeat myself, it died. Lack of money.

[Anonymous]

The "X4018" is at "The Age of Steam Museum"
@ Fair Park, Dallas. It seems I remember reading
in our local rag, that when that project was still
viable that they fired her up and she moved
back and forth 6 or 8 feet. After that the project died because of lack of intrest and funding.

[Anonymous]

Enough with the attitude!!!

[CHESSIEMIKE]

I could be wrong , but I don't think they "fired her up and she moved back and forth 6 or 8 feet". when this locomotive was given by the UP they cut the pistoin rods(or some other part of the running gear) so the cylinders would not overheat during the move to her resting place. I can check my photos to make sure what they cut. I think they moved her with the help of another locomotive.
CHESSIEMIKE

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by overland1

I haven't followed this thread all the way, so it may have already been brought, up but does anyone know the status of the Big Boy restoration started in Texas a few years ago for use in a movie?

Anyone with questions about this project can do an advanced search using the words big boy movie. I did this myself and found that a man from the museum there made a post about the movie and answered the questions concering it. The big boy did not move under its own power, it could not because the rods were cut by UP. The reason the movie wasn't made was an issue about a bond the museum wanted to insure the loco could be put back togather if the movie company failed to do so or couldn't. It all came down to money.

[sooblue]

Originally the Big boy was developed to run the eastern grade through weber canyon east of Ogden Ut.
After diesels took over there the Big boy was moved to run between Laramie and Cheyenne Wyoming (Sherman hill)
The claim that the big boy was the largest heaviest and most powerful of all the steam locomotives can be debated.
The 2-6-6-6 Allegheny was heavier, and had a higher tractive effort.
The 4-8-4 Niagara tested out at 6700 hp the Big boy tested at 6000hp.
Back a few years Trains mag. ran an interesting article comparing the big boy to the Allegheny.
The weight of the Allegheny was kept secret for many years because it was falsified at the factory.
Sooblue

[Anonymous]

Big Boy was the Longest Articulated (not considering the turbines for N&W and C&O) and was over 8 feet longer than the H-8.

the H-8 was limited to a wheelbase length with tender, of 115 feet, which would allow it to fit on the C&O's turntables.

Engine Weight, regardless of which exact weight the H-8 came it at, still makes it the heaviest articulated (minus the turbines again)

Tractive Effort went to the Big Boy though... as most of the weight on the H-8, came from the firebox back :)

Horsepower.. whether you want drawbar, or at speed... the H-8 dominated..

Loyd L.

[Anonymous]

About the turntable issue, UP recently overhauled the Cheyenne turntable..it is still in use. As for the restoration of one, the UP wanted a steam engine that could go to various parts of the country without extra trouble. Also the nearest big boy is in a park in Cheyenne, and would have been very expensive to overhaul. Those guys in the steam shop fight hard to keep the program going...and the bottom line is always being looked at. Oftern when the challenger goes out it is made to pull some freight as well.

[eastside]

QUOTE: Because if its length, it cannot fit on most turntables nor negotiate the curve radius of most wyes.

Didn't the Pennsy S-1 class 6100 have a similar problem? It was 140 feet from end-to-end and weighed 304 tons. The fixed components may have been shorter, though.

BTW, has anyone ever seen a picture of the S-1 running with a passenger train? I never have.

This is one I wi***he PRR had kept for posterity. Like all the other of their magnificent failures, Pennsy scrapped it after too brief a life.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainman70

Why does UP or some rich fellow not restore a Big Boy to working order? I know that it would be expensive, but I think that it would be worth the effort and money to restore one, so people could see the world's largest and most powerful steam locomotive in action once more.

As long as we are going to resurrect a topic that has been dead for almost a year, and was started more than two and a half years ago, let's go back to the original question, which in my opinion was never really totally addressed. We know that the UP has no real interest in restoring a Big Boy, FINE!!!

What if someone came along with $20 million and wanted to make one live again?? Hell, for the sake of arguement, let's say that Bill Gates has just decided to become a railfan, and is backing the project!!![:0][:p][:D][8D][;)][^]

The first question is which one of the 8 remaining locos would be made available for the project? Keep in mind that everything is for sale, FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.

What museum would want to part with their treasure?

Forget about where it could be run!!! To demonstrate a working Big Boy, a suitable track could be found. This whole question is hypothetical and moot until someone takes on the restoration project anyway.

Here are the candidates:

1. 4004 in Cheyenne (City Park)
2. 4005 in Denver (Forney Museum)
3. 4006 in St. Louis (Museum of Transportation)
4. 4012 in Scranton (Steamtown)
5. 4014 in Los Angeles (Pomona Fair Grounds)
6. 4017 in Green Bay (National Railroad Museum)
7. 4018 in Dallas (Age of Steam)
8. 4023 in Omaha (Western Heritage Muesum)

The other 17 were scrapped.[:(]

How did this question ever get into a debate about turntables????[}:)][;)]

Let's have some fun here!!!

[miniwyo]

I think that the best option would be the 4004 in Cheyenne, it would probably be sent there to get rebuilt any way and the city would still want thier price for it but would know that it would be an even better treasure if it were running for all to see instead of sitting there. I believe that the turntables came about when it was mentioned that there weren't any tunrtables big enough for the Big Boy. The Big Boys are great machines and i am sad that they lived before my time, I would have loved to see them thundering through downtown Rock Springs the way that the diesels do today.

[Overmod]

Stated this way, 4012 in Scranton is right at a well-run, active steam restoration operation. Admittedly 3713 has priority... but once she's done, bring on the first draw against that $20M! There is also no problem with politics in extracting the engine from a park, playing politics with UP for operation, etc. etc. etc.

I do have to admit that a Big Boy across Nicholson would be a splendid thing to see.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Stated this way, 4012 in Scranton is right at a well-run, active steam restoration operation. Admittedly 3713 has priority... but once she's done, bring on the first draw against that $20M! There is also no problem with politics in extracting the engine from a park, playing politics with UP for operation, etc. etc. etc.

I do have to admit that a Big Boy across Nicholson would be a splendid thing to see.

That sounds good! Maybe one of us should go ask Bill for the money. I'm sure he has given more money to less worthy causes.[swg]

So far we've got one vote for 4004 as the sentimental faforite, home town as it were. And one vote for 4012 as perhaps the logical, most viable player.

By the way, my personal connection is to 4005 in Denver of course. I spent many years in an HO train club in it's shadow. Unfortunately the club is gone, and I've heard that the 4005 was moved across town when the museum moved, and finally is housed indoors. It was in rough shape back then, but I guess it looks much better now. I suspect that it's a mechanical disaster, but money can solve any problem if you have enough of it.[;)]

I wonder what it would cost to build one from scratch these days?[:p]

[eastside]

QUOTE: I wonder what it would cost to build one from scratch these days?

Is there any company that can cast such a large frame still around?