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What do you think about Canadian National Mergers???

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 10:36 AM
GTW has always been a part of Canadian National. GTW, DW&P, CV and GT in New England were American subsidiaries of CN's predecessor roads. DW&P was part of Canadian Northern and the others were part of the Grand Trunk. All were set up as American corporations owned by CN during the collapse (except for CP) and reorganization of Canadian railroading in the aftermath of overexpansion and the First World War.
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Posted by Saxman on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 9:17 AM
How in the world did the gun issue end up in a discussion about CN meregers? I am always baffled by how these discussions turn form the topic to a totaly unrelated issues that does nothing but "flame" people. The memo from E. Hunter stated very clearly why we were to use just CN in our business dealings. ( I work on the xGTW which was a subsidiary of CN) This is all about business and not nostalgia. I would bet when one calls CSX or the Norflok Southern in Detroit, MI, the pereson does not answer the phone: "CSX, Pere Marqutte or Norfolk Southern, Wabash."
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 9:12 AM
[:-^][:-^][:-^]
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Posted by BentnoseWillie on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 8:46 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates
Boy, it sure seems like I get in more HEATED discussions about "gun control" with Canadians than anyone else.
Sure not heated on my part. We have differing traditions and different histories, so our cultures are different in many places. No surprise there.

We're just smug cause we make better beer. [:o)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 8:16 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kurtconi

Seagrams got involved with that Vivendi/20th Century Fox fiasco.

I understand that Peter Bronfmam lost a pile of the familys money on the deal.

So much money that the family basicly cut him off.

I wish I could remember the whole story about the bronfam family as told to me by my dad.

The old man Bronfam used to operate used car lots on the border in Ontario and Manitoba during prohibition in the U S.

He sold cars "As Is"..

"As Is" was with 30 some cases of whiskey packed in them.

All the Goombas from Kansas City, St Louis ,Chicago and Detroit. would pile into a car and drive up north.

As I recall he got $400.00 per model A.

There were lots of hijackings and shootouts here in minnisota and wisconsin.

My Father could really tell a story.

Kurt.


Thanks Kurt, I just couldn't remember.

The entire Bronfman klan is an interesting, albeit unusual bunch. Though by no means a "fan", I find stories of their exploits fascinating, and if any more "tidbits" of what your dad shared with you come to mind, I'd sure enjoy hearing about them
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 8:10 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

QUOTE: LOL Colt, Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson,..(just kidding, everyone knows how you canadians feel about owning guns....[4:-)]
Ironically, Canadians own at least as many firearms per person as Americans do. We have a lower proportion of murders committed with firearms, however.

Our weapon of choice is a slingshot and a bag of stale TImbits. [:O)]


Really? Well you told me something I didn't know today,...Thanks.

Boy, it sure seems like I get in more HEATED discussions about "gun control" with Canadians than anyone else.

Truth be told, Canadians are good folk, I like you guys. It's just funny (or so it seems to me anyway) how in the areas where the US and Canada differ on matters of public policy, the northern lobby is never too shy about "editorializing" about us knuckle draggers down south. But, lol, just turn the table, and allasudden we're "canada bashing" which is some kinda "foul" according to the complainers.[8]
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Posted by Clutch Cargo on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 7:55 AM
Seagrams got involved with that Vivendi/20th Century Fox fiasco.

I understand that Peter Bronfmam lost a pile of the familys money on the deal.

So much money that the family basicly cut him off.

I wish I could remember the whole story about the bronfam family as told to me by my dad.

The old man Bronfam used to operate used car lots on the border in Ontario and Manitoba during prohibition in the U S.

He sold cars "As Is"..

"As Is" was with 30 some cases of whiskey packed in them.

All the Goombas from Kansas City, St Louis ,Chicago and Detroit. would pile into a car and drive up north.

As I recall he got $400.00 per model A.

There were lots of hijackings and shootouts here in minnisota and wisconsin.

My Father could really tell a story.

Kurt.
Next to Duluth....We`re Superior. Will Rogers never met an FBI Agent.
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Posted by BentnoseWillie on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 6:14 AM
QUOTE: LOL Colt, Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson,..(just kidding, everyone knows how you canadians feel about owning guns....[4:-)]
Ironically, Canadians own at least as many firearms per person as Americans do. We have a lower proportion of murders committed with firearms, however.

Our weapon of choice is a slingshot and a bag of stale TImbits. [:O)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 6:03 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CliqueofOne

Highrise Office buildings for one thing, and a number of VERY cherished Department stores.... Also, one of the MAJOR hollywood studios.



Names, please, names. Signal Mechanic. Signal Department. Canadian.[?]


LOL Colt, Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson,..(just kidding, everyone knows how you canadians feel about owning guns....[4:-)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 5:52 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CliqueofOne

Highrise Office buildings for one thing, and a number of VERY cherished Department stores.... Also, one of the MAJOR hollywood studios.



Names, please, names. Signal Mechanic. Signal Department. Canadian.[?]


The Broadway, Emporium Capwell,Neiman Marcus for Dept Stores (all bought by Carter Hawley Hale, based in LA but Cannuck funding),

I forget which studio Seagrams bought

And as for office buildings, its been 20 years since I even lived there, so the names are fuzzy, but does the "name" DENVER ring a bell with you? During 85-86 Canadian Paper companies bought up most of the major new highrises in the downtown area...first inspiring outrage, then jokes because their buildings ende up being the empty ones people could "see through" during the office glut.

A pattern that was not limited to Denver, that just happened to be where I lived when the feathers hit the fan.

Best I can do, without more work than I'm willing to do.
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Posted by BentnoseWillie on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 5:44 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by macguyRenaming CN to IC would require them to re-paint the vast majority of their loco's and thousands of pieces of rolling stock, and I'm sure that's the only thing that's stopping them from renaming the railroad.
I disagree - they'd just repaint 'em when they were due for paint anyway. Granted, that would take years - look at the condition of the paint on most CN GP38-2's.

QUOTE: It's one thing to change your name for easier brand reconition, and a whole nother thing to send out memo's to all your employes saying that they can no longer refer to CN as Canadian or Canadian National, just CN.
Again I disagree - I'd bet you that IBM and AT&T did exactly the same thing when they rebranded.

It wasn't just "Canadian National" that employees were instructed to cease using, it was all predecessor names. I'm told that until last year there were employees still using the name "Chicago Central and Pacific" in telephone conversations. That's fine at the local level, but as the system integrates it confuses customers.
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Posted by CliqueofOne on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 2:07 AM
Highrise Office buildings for one thing, and a number of VERY cherished Department stores.... Also, one of the MAJOR hollywood studios.



Names, please, names. Signal Mechanic. Signal Department. Canadian.[?]
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Posted by Clutch Cargo on Monday, June 7, 2004 11:34 PM
Oh Goodness Yes.

Anyone who puts money in Hollywood deserves to be taken for a ride.

(Whoo, Whoo, Chuga ,Chuga.)

C.N.stock is still listed as a "Buy" by major brokerages here in the U S .
nevermind that they are just eating up the plant of the Railroads they buy out.
12% return on capital is all investors care about..

(Whoo, Whoo., Chuga ,Chuga)

Disclamer...Kurt owns stock in B N ..U P
and N S.

Kurt.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 7, 2004 9:05 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CliqueofOne

Funny, but when Canadian interests were buying up USA "trophies" back in the 1980's, it was considered "bad form" if we ugly americans protested the workings of the "free market"


Could you please refresh my memory as to what USA "trophies", Canadian interests were buying back in the 1980s. Thanks in advance for the enlightenment. Signal Mechanic, Signal Department, former Canadian National Railways. [?]


Highrise Office buildings for one thing, and a number of VERY cherished Department stores.... Also, one of the MAJOR hollywood studios.
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Posted by CliqueofOne on Monday, June 7, 2004 6:06 PM
Funny, but when Canadian interests were buying up USA "trophies" back in the 1980's, it was considered "bad form" if we ugly americans protested the workings of the "free market"


Could you please refresh my memory as to what USA "trophies", Canadian interests were buying back in the 1980s. Thanks in advance for the enlightenment. Signal Mechanic, Signal Department, former Canadian National Railways. [?]
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 7, 2004 5:36 PM
Bah...

It's Cn...
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 7, 2004 5:10 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy



Renaming CN to IC would require them to re-paint the vast majority of their loco's and thousands of pieces of rolling stock, and I'm sure that's the only thing that's stopping them from renaming the railroad.



How so? I still see a lot of "southern" rolling stock on NS trains. I bet UP has quite a bit of "MoPac" , "CNW", "Southern Pacific" And even "Cotton Belt" rolling stock not getting fresh paint anytime soon.


Fair enough,

They would still have over a thousand loco's to do.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 7, 2004 4:46 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy



Renaming CN to IC would require them to re-paint the vast majority of their loco's and thousands of pieces of rolling stock, and I'm sure that's the only thing that's stopping them from renaming the railroad.



How so? I still see a lot of "southern" rolling stock on NS trains. I bet UP has quite a bit of "MoPac" , "CNW", "Southern Pacific" And even "Cotton Belt" rolling stock not getting fresh paint anytime soon.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 7, 2004 2:54 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguyAs far as I'm concerned CN outbid UP when they sent out the memo saying they no longer want any of their employees to refer to CN as Canadian or Canadian National, just CN.
True - but they also banned the names "Chicago Central & Pacific", "Wisconsin Central", and "Illinois Central" (to name a few), many of which had much more history than "Canadian National" did. The privatization legislation didn't specify a retention of the name - if they really wanted to exterminate the Canadian part of the corporate identity, they'd rename it Illinois Central...[:O)]

All CN did was settle on a name that matched their logo more closly, for easier brand recognition - just like Industrial Business Machine and American Telegraph and Telephone did. The full name isn't dead, - in fact, the index page of CN's website (which, by the way, is a .ca domain) includes "Canadian National" in the title bar.


Renaming CN to IC would require them to re-paint the vast majority of their loco's and thousands of pieces of rolling stock, and I'm sure that's the only thing that's stopping them from renaming the railroad.

It's one thing to change your name for easier brand reconition, and a whole nother thing to send out memo's to all your employes saying that they can no longer refer to CN as Canadian or Canadian National, just CN.

That, to me, was very un-patriotic of CN to do.... but what the hell does Harrison care anyway.
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Posted by ShaunCN on Monday, June 7, 2004 2:43 PM
Canadian National has merged and/or bought out a lot of RR's like:

Grand Trunk Western
Central Vermont(which they sold in 1995?)
WC
IC
BC Rail
Almost got ON Rail too
they also got Great lakes transportation that I think included a couple RR's

derailment? what derailment? All reports of derailments are lies. Their are no derailments within a hundreed miles of here.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 7, 2004 11:01 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

QUOTE: CN seems to have interest in the resources we have here in the US.
'Scuse me? Canada-US trade balance is the other way 'round - the US imports Canadian resources (we were their second-largest supplier of crude oil in 2002). Meanwhile, we import US manufactured goods. We sell more than we buy, because they outnumber us ten to one.

I don't see a surprise in CN integrating more US roads. US investors bought most of CN nearly a decade ago, and the majority of its business is cross-border, so further integration was inevitable, as was "Americanisation" at the top executive level. "Y'gotta dance with the one what brung ya", after all. Integration has been going on for a century or longer, but it's more overt recently because of evolving regulatory environments.

Like it or not, it was bound to happen. Change is the only constant.


that is the voice of wisdom,....you are absolutely correct.

Funny, but when Canadian interests were buying up USA "trophies" back in the 1980's, it was considered "bad form" if we ugly americans protested the workings of the "free market"

It's sad, yet at the same time gratifying to see the ugliness now that the shoe is on the other foot.

Carter, Hawley, Hale anyone?
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Posted by zardoz on Monday, June 7, 2004 10:16 AM
At least, for the time being, the talking detectors on the Waukesha sub still identify as "Wisconsin Central, milepost xx.xx....."

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Posted by BentnoseWillie on Monday, June 7, 2004 8:58 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by macguyAs far as I'm concerned CN outbid UP when they sent out the memo saying they no longer want any of their employees to refer to CN as Canadian or Canadian National, just CN.
True - but they also banned the names "Chicago Central & Pacific", "Wisconsin Central", and "Illinois Central" (to name a few), many of which had much more history than "Canadian National" did. The privatization legislation didn't specify a retention of the name - if they really wanted to exterminate the Canadian part of the corporate identity, they'd rename it Illinois Central...[:O)]

All CN did was settle on a name that matched their logo more closly, for easier brand recognition - just like Industrial Business Machine and American Telegraph and Telephone did. The full name isn't dead, - in fact, the index page of CN's website (which, by the way, is a .ca domain) includes "Canadian National" in the title bar.
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Posted by BentnoseWillie on Monday, June 7, 2004 8:45 AM
QUOTE: CN seems to have interest in the resources we have here in the US.
'Scuse me? Canada-US trade balance is the other way 'round - the US imports Canadian resources (we were their second-largest supplier of crude oil in 2002). Meanwhile, we import US manufactured goods. We sell more than we buy, because they outnumber us ten to one.

I don't see a surprise in CN integrating more US roads. US investors bought most of CN nearly a decade ago, and the majority of its business is cross-border, so further integration was inevitable, as was "Americanisation" at the top executive level. "Y'gotta dance with the one what brung ya", after all. Integration has been going on for a century or longer, but it's more overt recently because of evolving regulatory environments.

Like it or not, it was bound to happen. Change is the only constant.
B-Dubya -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Inside every GE is an Alco trying to get out...apparently, through the exhaust stack!
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 7, 2004 8:05 AM
It cinda makes me wounder.,Sometimes.
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Posted by Clutch Cargo on Monday, June 7, 2004 7:27 AM
C N makes me want to Cuss a Blue Streak.

I live in Northern Wisconsin and am affected by the buyout of the Duluth Missabe and Iron Range Railroad.

They are canceling 22 craft positions in the Proctor MN. yards.
Of the 30 jobs left they are transfering them to the Twin Shitties or Wisconsin Rapids.

The word up here is they wanted 17 miles of track outside Babbit MN. ....

So for 17 miles of track you buy the Railroad, the US Steel Great Lakes Fleet and a couple of captive shortlines in Ohio.

It don`t make a whole lot of sence .

Maybee Chicago Pacific is not too far off the mark.
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Posted by Randy Stahl on Sunday, June 6, 2004 10:42 PM
Interesting that the Ontario Northland takeover by CN never happened. the Canadian regulatory agency shot them down because everyone was sure that many workers in Ontario would lose their jobs....I wonder what gave them that idea? Pity the poor guys at the DM&IR they will soon find out for themselves how brutal the CN is. Buy stock in the KCS, it can't possibly last too long inthe land of giants.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 6, 2004 10:36 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF9838

I want to know if the CN & BNSF will still talk "merger" talk's?
BNSFfan.


I'm pretty sure the competition guys said NO WAY to that a few years back, and the talks pretty much died out...

CN wanted BNSF, then CP said they would hook up with UP.

It all fell apart after that.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 6, 2004 9:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bjk041089

Have any of you trainfans noticed that CN has bought so much track that they extend to the Gulf of Mexico. CN seems to have interest in the resources we have here in the US. CN might just make it in South America in some time. Tell me what you think about CN Mergers to the Gulf Coast. [?]


Good gosh yes!! Just look at the network map

http://www.cn.ca/en_index.shtml?ww=800
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 6, 2004 9:22 PM
Norfolk Southern National? [^]

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