What do you think about Canadian National Mergers???

[Junctionfan]

That is a very shallow thing to say.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

So I have noticed. It would appear than my fears have come true in that the few out number the needs of the many. It bothers me that thease same people who believe in that are supposed to be "good Christians" as if that is supposed to make a world of difference. I apoligies for the ranting but I hate to see people suffer and I get frustrated when people are unwilling to comprimise. I don't see anything wrong with making money but can't there be moral medium in how you achieve it. There must be another way than to reduce workforces and customers in order to make more money. I get capitalism but I have to wonder if it is worth the aggrivation. To me it is an archaic form of life that we should get over as it has no real basis on the grand scheme of things. That form of greed slows the process of advanced thought and technological breakthroughs that we may desperatly need. I am sure if we were not plague by rampid capitalism, we would have found the cure for cancer by now.

Just wait until you actually have to earn a living. You'll change your mind as you figure out what it takes to have nice things and live decently.

LC

[Junctionfan]

So I have noticed. It would appear than my fears have come true in that the few out number the needs of the many. It bothers me that thease same people who believe in that are supposed to be "good Christians" as if that is supposed to make a world of difference. I apoligies for the ranting but I hate to see people suffer and I get frustrated when people are unwilling to comprimise. I don't see anything wrong with making money but can't there be moral medium in how you achieve it. There must be another way than to reduce workforces and customers in order to make more money. I get capitalism but I have to wonder if it is worth the aggrivation. To me it is an archaic form of life that we should get over as it has no real basis on the grand scheme of things. That form of greed slows the process of advanced thought and technological breakthroughs that we may desperatly need. I am sure if we were not plague by rampid capitalism, we would have found the cure for cancer by now.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Does that make it any more right? News flash! If this was any other industry related forum, I would say the same thing. I am not a big fan of waste; I detest it more because it is a major important mode of transportation that is depended on by literaly millions of people. I am really sick to death of hearing how much money the railroads are making while at the same time ex railroad workers are now unemployed with a family that has got bills to pay while at the same time the investors and management are sitting down in their nice homes, drinking and eating without a care in the world except how they will do in the next quarterly. Where in the hell is the justice in that?

It is capitalism we are talking about and as you will learn, it has little to do with justice.

LC

[Junctionfan]

Does that make it any more right? News flash! If this was any other industry related forum, I would say the same thing. I am not a big fan of waste; I detest it more because it is a major important mode of transportation that is depended on by literaly millions of people. I am really sick to death of hearing how much money the railroads are making while at the same time ex railroad workers are now unemployed with a family that has got bills to pay while at the same time the investors and management are sitting down in their nice homes, drinking and eating without a care in the world except how they will do in the next quarterly. Where in the hell is the justice in that?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I wi***hey would work with what they got and less time with what they don't have. They remind me of the Borg except they are not utilizing everything they buy for their own services. I don't recall the Borg saying "we are the Borg; resistance is futile, you will be assimilated unless we just what a few things that we will discard don't want". It is to me like buying an apple just so you can eat the stem and than throwing a the useless apple.

News Flash!

This happens in every industry, not just railroads. It is one of the reasons companies have issues growing by acquisition.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

If Canadian(oops! I meanCN) National merged with Union Pacific would it be called Unadian Pacific?

National Union Railroad

LC

[Junctionfan]

I wi***hey would work with what they got and less time with what they don't have. They remind me of the Borg except they are not utilizing everything they buy for their own services. I don't recall the Borg saying "we are the Borg; resistance is futile, you will be assimilated unless we just what a few things that we will discard don't want". It is to me like buying an apple just so you can eat the stem and than throwing a the useless apple.

[wcfan4ever]

I dont like CN, I don't like the way they run things and how they treat customers but I do have to hand it to them...they do know what they are doing. They sure haven't lost any major amounts of money and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Too bad for the WC. At least there are still some WC's around...but get photos while you can cause the SD45's days are numbered.

[espeefoamer]

If Canadian(oops! I meanCN) National merged with Union Pacific would it be called Unadian Pacific?

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Vista Dome Passenger 1

I dont uderstand why. CN can buy these railroads but i believe they should still have there own identity.

My friend, people have been saying that about merged railroads for over 50 years! Other industries as well. Then again, there's always a few companies that we wish we had never seen in the first place (Penn Central anyone ?[swg])...

[2c],
-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Anonymous]

I can tell you on a firsthand basis that CN is the worst thing to ever happen to IC. IC would've been better off staying independant or merging with KCS or being gobbled up by anyone other than CN. And as for these different names answering the customer's phone calls....the customer wants service, they could care less what the name of your silly railroad is, and they don't care if you answer the phone "CN", "IC", "WC", or "Hey what's up." Of course there's not that many customers left to worry about anyway.

[Anonymous]

I dont uderstand why. CN can buy these railroads but i believe they should still have there own identity.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The GLT acquisition included DM&IR, B&LE, Pittsburgh & Conneaut Dock, and the former US Steel Great Lakes Fleet (!). Pittsburgh & Conneaut Dock is a small terminal road that was once known for its F7's used as car pushers.
I would assume everything other than DM&IR will be put up for sale shortly after the acquisition is completed.

[XG01X]

They could of got KCS if the IC-KCS merger would have went through. Now, they better be scrambling before BNSF or NS gobbles KCS.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 12345671234567

I dont understand there taking over of so many lines. Is the illinois Central still a railroad. How about the Soo line they still hold there own identities within CN. im confused.

Well, I tell you what: the Soo Line certainly don't hold its own identity within CN, since it is owned and operated as part of Canadian Pacific!

Similar to the CP, CN is in no huge ru***o obliterate the identities of its new subsidiaries. We'll still be seeing black IC locomotives, blue-n-red "GT"s, and to a lesser extent DM&IR and WC locomotives for years to come. As long as it's a decent paint job, the engines are just fine.

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[RicHamilton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 12345671234567

I dont understand there taking over of so many lines. Is the illinois Central still a railroad. How about the Soo line they still hold there own identities within CN. im confused.

Ummmm I think CP bought Soo if I am not mistaken.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ShaunCN

Canadian National has merged and/or bought out a lot of RR's like:

Grand Trunk Western
Central Vermont(which they sold in 1995?)

GTW and CV, along with the Grand Trunk (which was sold, I believe, to the St. Lawrence & Atlantic) and Duluth Winnipeg & Pacific, have basically been a part of CN since its formation. Basically, they were US subsidiaries and branches of the broke railroads that Canada took over to form the CN.

From my observations, CN didn't sell the CV -- only the tracks it ran on, to the New England Central (part of Railtex->RailAmerica). The CV still exists on paper, as you can still see CV boxcars on the railroads in every condition from damn-near-falling-apart to freshly painted. The newest ones even have the www.cn.ca on them.

QUOTE:
WC
IC
BC Rail
Almost got ON Rail too
they also got Great lakes transportation that I think included a couple RR's

After CN merged with IC (bought IC), the WC acquisition pretty much made sense. Besides, WC was in a management-vs.-investors feud at the time, and management (Burkhardt) lost -- too bad, most of us really miss the WC and its somewhat-eclectic mix of recycled motive power.

I know Duluth Missabe & Iron Range was included in the GLT acquisition, seems to me that it also was Bessemer & Lake Erie and some little switching line that connects to it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

Incidentally, part of me would like to have seen the IC "Deathstar" prevail...simple and effective, and no red to try and match on models. [:)]

Personally, my vote is for the green diamond...

[2c],
-Mark
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Norfolk Southern National? [^]

No, no, no... Burlington Norfolk Southern Fe!!!
[:o)]

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrwatkins

Re the AT&T-American Telephone and Telegraph names. Yes, Ma Bell did buy the physical wires from Western Union, but they do not have any telegraph keys in service. They bought the Telex service, which doed out due to the fax machine which in turn is dying due to Email. Talk about a company who cannot seem to get their act together! A couple of years ago Americal Telephone and Telegraph formally changed their legal name to AT&T.

It sure looks that way on the surface, doesn't it?.

Still, it's pretty hard to write off "Bell" as some bumbling incoragable.... just look at the staggering amount of high tech we depend on everyday that originally was hatched at Bell Labs?

It took a major "whammy" by the federal govt to dethrone Ma bell in the telecomunications dynasty if built, then after divesture, some of the resulting "split" baby bells went national, ultimately with the sum total of the divested parts becoming greater than the original "whole"

And, today, lets not forget "Comcast",..love 'em or hate em, they are AT&T

And, while admittedly speculating, the dramatic failures of the really big 'net' backbone companies (Global Crossing, etc) happened at their expense, BUT to the benefit of someone else. SOMEONE out there was making it very hard for them to "sell" all that , infastructure, they were so sure they would lease when they were putting it in. "AT&T" would as Likely as not have been a capable "fly in their ointment" [2c]

[Anonymous]

Re the AT&T-American Telephone and Telegraph names. Yes, Ma Bell did buy the physical wires from Western Union, but they do not have any telegraph keys in service. They bought the Telex service, which doed out due to the fax machine which in turn is dying due to Email. Talk about a company who cannot seem to get their act together! A couple of years ago Americal Telephone and Telegraph formally changed their legal name to AT&T.

[Anonymous]

I dont understand there taking over of so many lines. Is the illinois Central still a railroad. How about the Soo line they still hold there own identities within CN. im confused.

[jchnhtfd]

Bentnose -- you've got it exactly right. The objective was -- and is -- to project a single corporate identity, and the logic of the situation was -- and is -- that the 'CN' logo and short name had and have some of the best name/logo recognition of any corporate logo, right up there with 'Coca-Cola' and it's world famous bottle. I really don't think there was any design to remove the Canadian affiliation at all. Those of us who are, or were, associated with CN or any of its predecessors are intensely proud of it, and of it's Canadian origins!

As for the general public and shippers? Well... shippers give their business to the company which best fits their needs at the moment. CN hopes to be that, and part of the way to accompli***hat is to have a single corporate identity. Railfans? If they don't know by now, they jolly well should! General public... is generally unaware of the national affiliation, if any, of anything -- never mind railroads!

[BentnoseWillie]

I see what you're getting at, but I think you're overlooking some things. If Harrison really wanted "Canadian" gone from the corporate identity, it would be gone now - he would have changed the name of the company (and probably to "Illinois Central"). He didn't - it's still "Canadian National Railway Company".

My interpretation of the memo that started all this is that the issue is customers hearing one name, regardless of who or where they phone, to communicate a single integrated system that could service customers cross-continent. Two names - no matter what names- are contrary to this objective, which is why AT&T staff no longer answer the phone "American Telegraph and Telephone" even though that was still the name (I don't know if it still is) .

I expect CN to integrate certain functions to act systemwide from single locations where it makes sense to do so: Car Control and Credit come to mind. As that happens, if a customer in Mobile hears "Illinois Central" when he calls his account rep; "Canadian National" when he calls Car Control; and "CN" when he calls the Credit Department; he might wonder how these people who can't keep their name straight can keep his shipments straight.

This was about creating and maintaining a single brand to communicate the scope and integration of the CN system. "CN" was a short name with a good level of recognition across the continent - the "noodle" logo was recognized as one of the most effective corporate logos of the last 40 years - so it made sense to use it.

Incidentally, part of me would like to have seen the IC "Deathstar" prevail...simple and effective, and no red to try and match on models. [:)]

(Edited text in red)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
It wasn't just "Canadian National" that employees were instructed to cease using, it was all predecessor names. I'm told that until last year there were employees still using the name "Chicago Central and Pacific" in telephone conversations. That's fine at the local level, but as the system integrates it confuses customers.

But CN is Canadian National, that's what gets me..... that's what CN stands for!
Chicago Central and Pacific initials don't work out to CN....

Don't you see what I am getting at.... it's the fact that Harrison doesn't want the company to be reconized as Canadian that pisses me off. And that's the impression that I get.

As far as I am concerned CN and Canadian National should be able to be used interchangeably, and that's what Harrison said can no longer be done.

There's no confusion berween CN and Canadian National unlike CN and Chicago Central and Pacific.

[Clutch Cargo]

Yes be nice.

I used to take the G.T.W. from Durand Michigan to South Bend Indiana to visit my sister.

G.T.W. served the best pot pies in the in the World in the dining car.

Kurt

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdomSaying you make better beer than most American beer isn't saying much.

Oh, be nice. [:o)]

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates
Boy, it sure seems like I get in more HEATED discussions about "gun control" with Canadians than anyone else.

Sure not heated on my part. We have differing traditions and different histories, so our cultures are different in many places. No surprise there.

We're just smug cause we make better beer. [:o)]

Saying you make better beer than most American beer isn't saying much.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates
Boy, it sure seems like I get in more HEATED discussions about "gun control" with Canadians than anyone else.

Sure not heated on my part. We have differing traditions and different histories, so our cultures are different in many places. No surprise there.

We're just smug cause we make better beer. [:o)]