....Original home area being in southwestern Pennsylvania we did get to see snow plows in Winter....several different kinds. And often.
Even back in the 30's and 40's, we'd see big 4X4 State trucks equipped with hefty angle plows and even some with angled blades on the right side. Some of the earliest 4X4s I saw were Federal brand trucks. They must have been a monster to drive....{steer}, without power steering}.
When main and or county roads would be closed with monstrous drifts it would bring out big trucks with massive size "V" plows.
Beyond that, if it required more....the "blower" type trucks came to do the job....With a separate engine to drive the "blower" mechanism. They could bite into massive drifts similar as the pic's we've observed with RR rotaries.
They had {have}, a series of horziontal augers rotating across the front and a spinning wheel behind them with proper blades to blast the snow up and out to either side they needed to throw the snow.
It was slow going for them in massive drifts, but it was just a matter of time they would grind their way thru and open the closure.
Quentin
The most common configuration here is a single main plow with a wing on the right side:
Note that the left end of the plow (right as you look at the picture) is short and that the plow gets bigger toward the discharge end.
The plows on the Interstates often have a front plow that can be turned (like a pickup truck plow, only bigger) and wings on both sides. That way they can work either lane, plowing either to the median or the shoulder. The state now runs them in echelon on the Interstates - too close together to pass. That results in some huge backups behind them.
Airports will often use rollover plows, which can be flipped over so they throw the snow in either direction. Note that there are two cutting edges on the plows:
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Larry, just saw your post. I think I remember the plows having a straight blade that could be angled left or right. They did have a left and right wing plow, however, they only used one wing or the other. I do not remember the trucks ever using both at the same time, most likely because of what you stated.
James
Mookie BC - 22 here and full sun - but no wind! Can spring be far behind?
BC - 22 here and full sun - but no wind! Can spring be far behind?
Yep.
Paul, thanks for the photo! It has been a long while since I've see a plow like that. I lived in Orchard Park, New York, outside of Buffalo back in the mid-seventies. I can remember those wing plow equipped trucks. They are so cool!
Well, there is 2" of snow on the ground and it is still coming! This is a "major" storm to the folks here. With the 18 degree temperature (bitter cold by local standards), this is believed to be the worst storm of the season (for us). I will be back at work tomorrow at eleven a.m. I wonder how the county and city will have handled the roads by then. As of an hour ago, there was no signs of plows anywhere.
You must remember that I live not far from the birthplace of the steel highway snow plow:
Since the 1920’s the company had manufactured the Frink snowplow. Acting on a dare from a friend, bus line owner Fred Daily, Carl Frink, a tire shop owner, invented and constructed the first steel snowplow in order to clear the bus route from Clayton to Watertown, New York. This plow was created to fasten to the undercarriage of a car or truck. It was a hit. By the 1930’s the Frink snowplow was being manufactured for local orders and orders around the state, the country, and the world. As time went on the company remained the “premier manufacturer of heavy duty highway, airport, and commercial snowplows.”
Frink closed in 2000, but I'd bet you can still find a bunch of them out there.
Running a wing takes some skill and practice - there are three controls and a definite order to putting a wing on the ground. If you do it wrong the nose will dig in and slap the plow up against the side of the truck. The state now runs most of their plows with just a driver, but most of the towns, etc, use a driver and a wing operator. In the case of a plow such as you have pictured, the driver runs the main plow, the left side wing, and still has to drive...
We don't see many V plows here. If we do, it's because we're digging out from a really big storm. Most highway departments have a couple available, though. Double wings aren't real common, but there are a fair number in regular use.
As for the pictures - always glad to help out!
Mookie Can spring be far behind?
Can spring be far behind?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
CShaveRRFive above, as we get ready for work. We may have gotten a dusting of snow so far, but this is broom stuff. However, I was pointing out to Pat that I have yet to see the moon during this cycle, and it's just about full already.
tree68 [snip] Ironically, that's about how much I blew out of my driveway this morning, and life around here has hardly slowed down (a few people didn't at all, but they've been towed out of the ditches now). Sometimes (actually most of the time) I'm glad I live in a place where the local township probably has more snowplows than all of Dallas...
Sometimes (actually most of the time) I'm glad I live in a place where the local township probably has more snowplows than all of Dallas...
to both paragraphs !
And those are serious snowplows, too ! I've long admired the NYSDOT plow truck set-ups - they look like they took a few pages from the railroad's Jordan spreader concepts with a heavy-duty structural box frame around the cab and big wing plows, etc. As just one example, from - http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/ryan_pedone_snow_plows01.htm -
By the way, Larry - thanks much for your help with figuring out how to post photos here. As you can see from this and may have noticed on other threads elsewhere, I've now done that successfully a few times, though so far mostly with 'Other People's Photos' from on-line sources. But I'll be posting some more of mine soon, too. Thanks again !
- Paul North.
CShaveRRI guess if you've got that whole inch of snow and call off school, the kids had better have sleds, right? I know I wouldn't have the time or desire to go sledding on a school night (we had a 300-foot driveway with a decent hill near the house, on which we could take a few runs, but the real sledding hill required a walk of several blocks).
Growing up in South Carolina, I knew of sledding, but never had the snow for such. When I went off to college in Bristol, Tennessee, things changed. The main entrance to the campus was up a long hill with a good grade (it provided a challenge to a single-speed bicycle rider)--and was wonderful for coasting down. If there were no traffic on the street when you reached the bottom of the hill, you could go on across the street to a field--with a two or three foot drop on the other side of the street (very exciting to the bottom rider in a stack of three). While the snow lasted, we would be out there almost every night. I do not know why, but after my first year, there was very little sledding done, even after a good snowfall.
Johnny
-5 as as I head out for work today. Feeling about 85% of 'normal'. Not supposed to get any of the white fun until possibly Tuesday, and even then not much is expected. The teacher's union up here seems like they get a day off just about every week...and then they complain when a snow day happens! Can't figure that one out.
Hopefully I can get trackside sometime this weekend. Sit and watch sounds good about now...
Dan
Just let the dogs out and noticed the flurries have started. It is sticking. They are calling for 6"+ in the counties just South of me, 1"-4" for my town. I guess I'll get to watch this through the windows at work today. Saint Louis is calling for an inch or less for the city proper. The news is reporting the hardware stores here are sold out of ... snow sleds!
The Weather Channel is focused on Texas and Oklahoma right now. OKC got 6-8" of snow, which, of course, paralyzes them (I know, I lived there for two years). Ironically, that's about how much I blew out of my driveway this morning, and life around here has hardly slowed down (a few people didn't at all, but they've been towed out of the ditches now).
Thanks, guys, for all that info.
Carl, that "nasty" weather should hit here. The weather guy on TV has got us in the 3-6" of snow area. After living in far Northeastern Wisconsin for five years and twenty years prior in Northwest suburban Chicago, I still smile when the locals start clearing the grocery shelves with a 1" forecast of snow.
Your right, Dan, I somehow managed to miss that sentence when I read it the first time (and it was even underlined!).
Glad to hear you and Misty are feeling better, and here's to hoping Aedan doesn't catch anything!
Noah
I believe the answer to your question, Noah, was given in Paul's last post above.
I thought I'd pop in now that I'm able to sit up w/o issues. Got a (hopefully) 24 hour flu bug yesterday...it's almost done mopping the floor with me. At least today was a good day to stay inside at a (currently) balmy 4 above. Misty got this on Tuesday and I think I got it from her. Aedan has been at G&Gs house as much as possible to keep him away from the bug. I miss the little bugger tho..
Curiosity makes me ask, what's the function of the shoe on the hopper? Does it have something to do with being able to automatically open the doors when the car is in a certain position?
CShaveRR [snip] Paul, the quick-discharge hoppers are probably rare in your neck of the woods, but lots of coal trains out of the Powder River Basin have them. They're best unloaded at power plants that unload from a trestle instead of a rotary dumper. The "shoe" is what triggers the unloading of the car (I'm not intimately familiar with this); when it's out, the doors are opened by air from the charged reservoirs on each car. Opening is nearly instantaneous, and the doors on the hoppers are such that the effect is like the bottom dropping out of the car! Unloading actually takes only a few seconds per car. In unit coal trains, they're actually fairly common, but the power plants that employ this type of unloading seem to be toward the Southeast. The actual shoe is at the lower right corner of the side, above the truck. The most versatile coal cars around are quick-discharge hoppers with a rotary-coupler end--those can be used at just about any unloading facility around. [snip] Perhaps someone would be able to post pictures showing a clearance plate stencil or the unloading shoe on a quick-discharge hoppers. I have neither available, but would appreciate not having to post the next thousand words per topic! [emphasis added - PDN]
The actual shoe is at the lower right corner of the side, above the truck. The most versatile coal cars around are quick-discharge hoppers with a rotary-coupler end--those can be used at just about any unloading facility around.
[snip]
Perhaps someone would be able to post pictures showing a clearance plate stencil or the unloading shoe on a quick-discharge hoppers. I have neither available, but would appreciate not having to post the next thousand words per topic! [emphasis added - PDN]
OK Carl - I'm not quite there yet, but getting closer. Oddly, it's the model railroad people who seem to have the most info on these. But here's one, from http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=37259 :
The NOTES to the photo say:
" Excerpt from blue block on right side of car:"THIS CAR EXCEEDS PLATE "F" WHEN PICK-UP SHOE IS IN EXTENDED POSITION. BUT IS WITHIN PLATE "C" WHEN GAGGED." "
Here's a description that's apparently from Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, as downloaded from - http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:6AbnQh3LUiIJ:www.rrmodelcraftsman.com/tt_ath_ort_5bay.html+ortner+hopper+car&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1
[emphasis added - PDN]
The prototype for this model is the 100-Ton capacity rapid-discharge hopper car built by the Ortner Freight Car Company (which subsequently became part of Trinity Industries) beginning in the 1970's. These cars were designed for use in unit train service with continuous unloading capability. In addition to the usual air brake system, these cars were equipped with a second air system that would automatically open and re-close the 5 sets of bottom hopper doors. Each car has small shoes that contact a third rail mounted about 3 feet above the running rails at the unloading facility. A low voltage on the third rail causes the car doors to open over the unloading pit, and a second third rail at the end of the facility causes the doors to re-close. This set of cars is lettered "CSDU" with CSUX reporting marks, representing the fleet of Ortner cars now operated by Colorado Springs Utilities.
Athearn has added the hopper door air tank and actuating cylinder to the "A" end of the car, and the two door actuating shoes on the lower edge of the car sides. . . . Athearn has made even more improvements to the underbody. . . . The hopper door detail has been completely revised and new detail parts have been added between the hoppers representing the door operating mechanisms.
Plans for the Ortner rapid-discharge hopper cars appeared in the July 1981 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman and in the August 1981 issue of Model Railroader. The RMC plans were for a special four-bay version of the car delivered to the Southern Railway. The old Roundhouse and revised Athearn models closely match the plans for the five-bay version that appeared in MR."
Thanks much for your help with this one, Carl !
CShaveRR You first, James: the notification of clearance plates is usually shown on the sides of the car, just to the right of the reporting mark and number. [snip] Perhaps someone would be able to post pictures showing a clearance plate stencil or the unloading shoe on a quick-discharge hoppers. I have neither available, but would appreciate not having to post the next thousand words per topic!
Perhaps someone would be able to post pictures showing a clearance plate stencil or the unloading shoe on a quick-discharge hoppers. I have neither available, but would appreciate not having to post the next thousand words per topic!
As a favor to Carl, here's a photo of the ''Plate F'' stencil, from - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3769409164_8085d3faa3.jpg
Please excuse/ ignore the graffitti, but it seems unavoidable in all the photos I looked at to try to find an example.
Still looking for a photo of the 'shoe' for those hopper cars . . . next I'm going to try looking at Western Fuels Association = WFAX reporting marks, since I understand they have a fleet of quick-discharge bottom-dump cars.
CShaveRRJohnny, I don't see any references to clearances in our timetables any more, though I do remember this in the C&NW timetables. Although gross rail loads are shown on a system map available to the public on UP's web site, I don't see anything about clearances. There used to be a publication entitled Railway Line Clearances (put out by the same folks who produced the Official Railway Equipment Register) that covered the entire country.
Carl, I was looking in Southern Western Division timetable from 1984, and found the section on excessive dimension equipment. I have no idea if NS has such a section now, and it is not in my older tt's (say, in the sixties). Also, when I had my first opportunity to read a foreign road tt, I found that its special instructions were laid out quite differently from those in the Southern tt's with which I was familiar, not everything that the Southern covered was covered--each road has its own ideas as to what should be included in its tt's.
Carl, Johnny, Thanks. The reason for the question was I have seen the term "Plate F" in different posts.
Where on the cars are plates posted?
Carl -
I think that's as concise an explanation of the subject as I've ever seen - thanks !
For a little more detail on the various 'Plates', see the Wikipedia article on 'Loading Gauge - North America' at -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge#North_America
That article also references a diagram of some of them - the AAR Passenger and Plates B through H inclusive - in a 'PDF' format file, approx. 652 KB in size, from a 28'' x 40'' size sheet, at -
http://www.emdx.org/rail/Gabarit/ComparaisonGabaritsEuropenEtAAR.pdf
Finally, I'd like to know more about those quick-discharge coal hoppers, and the contact shoe for that. Can you provide more information on them - reporting marks, who uses them, from and to where, etc. ? Thanks in advance.
I do not know if the Railway Equipment Register (I think that was its name, I just looked for an issue that I have, but could not find it) is still published or not; it (along with quite a variety of other publications) was put out by the same company that published the Guide. It listed the freight cars owned by the various roads, and it showed the dimensions of the various plates. Carl gave us the basic idea of "plates." Employee timetables will usually show where excessive dimension equipment (plates C, E, and above), may not be operated.
Edit, add: "Plate _" is something like the "wide load" or "oversize load" that you see on some highway vehicles, but it is a little more specific as to how much oversize the equipment is.
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