Trackside Lounge: 1Q 2010 Edition

[Noah Hofrichter]

The following link was posted to a yahoo group I'm on, and I thought some of the folks in the lounge might be as interested in it as I was. I don't recall seeing it posted around here before anyway. The UP has apparently recently rebuilt and modernized, from the frame up, some former SP Jordan Spreaders, presumable for use in Donner Pass. Apparently the UP is having a documentary produced on the whole processes, and a preview video is availible online:

http://www.vimeo.com/8586713

Kinda neat, since it's rare you see a full documentary style video done on such a railroad project. Plus I've always been interested in railroad snow fighting operations. The preview video works too - it makes me want to see/buy the whole thing!

While I haven't posted here much lately, I have been reading the posts when I can. School and family events seem to keep me busy most of the time (this college thing is a lot of work!). I'm glad to hear the several of the lounge's regular patrons are returning to full health again however.

Noah

[CShaveRR]

Noah, thanks for that link. There's another thread here wondering what's happened to railroad snow plows--seeing something like this in action would answer all of his questions.

Dan, I wish I had your luck! I missed the first two of this week's three perishable trains, both of which came through today (within twelve hours of each other). One sneaked behind me while I was at work, and the other went past while I was at a church function.

[Modelcar]

Add my best wishes for those who have been thru some health issues lately and now back.

[zardoz]

CShaveRR

Willy, check out what Jim (Zardoz) said about cats in the thread about the poor running dog. I'd rather think of the kitty as sticking out her tongue at you from a safe--and warm!--distance!

(And welcome back, Jim! Let's hope that the events that precipitated your absence don't repeat themselves--or need to.)

Thank you very much, Carl.  I was quite surprised at the number of forum members that sent me messages regarding my departure.  Many thanks to you all. 

I hope I can be as successful in my return as Bret Favre was (?) in his.

T

[zardoz]

Willy2

CShaveRR

Interesting weather we've been having, reportedly thanks to El Nino sending those storms at the Pacific Coast.

 

Willy, you can post your comments here without fear of persecution!

Thanks Carl! I appreciate it. Although, I have a feeling that the kitty is lurking, waiting to punish me, no matter where I go!

It's not just kitties that are lurking, waiting to pounce....

[CShaveRR]

UP 1995 (the CNW heritage unit) is probably close to Wallula by now. Meanwhile, we're getting another rare visitor from the same area. UP 1996, the SP Heritage unit, is on a train bound for Global 2 (Proviso, basically) from Seattle. Should arrive tomorrow afternoon. I can't tell whether it's leading, because I can't access the info from here--by the time I get back to work it will probably be headed elsewhere.

[CNW 6000]

Send one of those up to Green Bay via CN Carl, would ya?  LOL...sigh...

[CShaveRR]

Not much railroading to report in yet today (I get to go to Elmhurst in an hour), so I thought I'd give you the latest words of wisdom from my eldest grandchild, Katelyn (5):

We were at a restaurant for lunch yesterday with daughter and grandchildren. Grandson Nico (19 months) was getting antsy after having eaten, so Pat took him for a walk around the place. Ellen took Emily (3) to the bathroom, leaving Katelyn alone with me.

"It's just you and me," she said. Then she added, "It will be just you when I go potty."

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Carl - and others -

If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at the assemblage of retarders in Charles Freericks'/ Erie Lackawanna photo of the UP's hump power lash-up at West Colton yard - it's the 3rd one in his thread captioned as Some So Cal Railroading at - http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/167811.aspx  The unusual ones are all in a line in the foreground track just in front of the locos, and there appear to be some more typical 'group' retarders behind the EC-4 track inspection car in the background.  The hump power is noteworthy too, as he points out.

- Paul North.

[CShaveRR]

I am not sure what the layout of the yard at West Colton is, but those retarders in the foreground are not for slowing cars down during classification (you're right about the group retarders behind the EC-4, Paul--I'm more familiar with those). If the tracks in the foreground are part of the receiving yard, these retarders might be to hold cars in after they've been bled...saves the problem of applying--and neglecting to release--hand brakes. ut then, why not on every track?

I eagerly await a more authoritative answer.

I thought the yard at West Colton employed tangent-point retarders in each of the classification tracks (as well as the group retarders), so that cars could move down the leads more quickly and still be at the proper speed when they rolled into their track (that would increase humping capacity). However, I don't see anything that looks like that here. Another good idea with bad side effects?

[The Butler]

Hi, Carl, since you seem to be a freight car guru , what is meant by the term, "Plate F?"

[CShaveRR]

Plate F is essentially a clearance diagram. You saw a tall car, probably a box or an auto rack.

Cars with no clearance markings are generally Plate B. They can travel anywhere on American Railroads. Plate C is only slightly taller, and has a few differences toward the bottom; you'll see lots of Plate C cars around. Plate D has little to do with standard clearances--it simply shows that longer cars have to be narrower, to clear curves. Plate E has more height added, and Plate F still more, if I remember correctly. Plate G is the diagram for loaded double-stack cars, the excess-height auto racks (TTQX and a few others--becoming rare again).

If you saw a coal car with clearance markings on it, it's a quick-discharge hopper--when the contact shoe is out, it's wider than any clearance diagram. Normally, with that shoe where it belongs, the car would be a Plate B or Place C car.

I'm sure somebody can explain all of this more accurately and concisely.

[Deggesty]

I do not know if the Railway Equipment Register (I think that was its name, I just looked for an issue that I have, but could not find it) is still published or not; it (along with quite a variety of other publications) was put out by the same company that published the Guide. It listed the freight cars owned by the various roads, and it showed the dimensions of the various plates. Carl gave us the basic idea of "plates." Employee timetables will usually show where excessive dimension equipment (plates C, E, and above), may not be operated.

Edit, add: "Plate _" is something like the "wide load" or "oversize load" that you see on some highway vehicles, but it is a little more specific as to how much oversize the equipment is.

Johnny

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Carl -

I think that's as concise an explanation of the subject as I've ever seen - thanks ! 

For a little more detail on the various 'Plates', see the Wikipedia article on 'Loading Gauge - North America' at -

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge#North_America 

That article also references a diagram of some of them - the AAR Passenger and Plates B through H inclusive - in a 'PDF' format file, approx. 652 KB in size, from a 28'' x 40'' size sheet, at -

http://www.emdx.org/rail/Gabarit/ComparaisonGabaritsEuropenEtAAR.pdf 

Finally, I'd like to know more about those quick-discharge coal hoppers, and the contact shoe for that.  Can you provide more information on them - reporting marks, who uses them, from and to where, etc. ?  Thanks in advance. 

- Paul North.

 

[The Butler]

Carl, Johnny, Thanks. The reason for the question was I have seen the term "Plate F" in different posts.

Where on the cars are plates posted?

[CShaveRR]

You first, James: the notification of clearance plates is usually shown on the sides of the car, just to the right of the reporting mark and number.

Paul, the quick-discharge hoppers are probably rare in your neck of the woods, but lots of coal trains out of the Powder River Basin have them. They're best unloaded at power plants that unload from a trestle instead of a rotary dumper. The "shoe" is what triggers the unloading of the car (I'm not intimately familiar with this); when it's out, the doors are opened by air from the charged reservoirs on each car. Opening is nearly instantaneous, and the doors on the hoppers are such that the effect is like the bottom dropping out of the car! Unloading actually takes only a few seconds per car. In unit coal trains, they're actually fairly common, but the power plants that employ this type of unloading seem to be toward the Southeast.

The actual shoe is at the lower right corner of the side, above the truck. The most versatile coal cars around are quick-discharge hoppers with a rotary-coupler end--those can be used at just about any unloading facility around.

Johnny, I don't see any references to clearances in our timetables any more, though I do remember this in the C&NW timetables. Although gross rail loads are shown on a system map available to the public on UP's web site, I don't see anything about clearances. There used to be a publication entitled Railway Line Clearances (put out by the same folks who produced the Official Railway Equipment Register) that covered the entire country.

Perhaps someone would be able to post pictures showing a clearance plate stencil or the unloading shoe on a quick-discharge hoppers. I have neither available, but would appreciate not having to post the next thousand words per topic!

[Deggesty]

CShaveRR

Johnny, I don't see any references to clearances in our timetables any more, though I do remember this in the C&NW timetables. Although gross rail loads are shown on a system map available to the public on UP's web site, I don't see anything about clearances. There used to be a publication entitled Railway Line Clearances (put out by the same folks who produced the Official Railway Equipment Register) that covered the entire country.

Carl, I was looking in Southern Western Division timetable from 1984, and found the section on excessive dimension equipment. I have no idea if NS has such a section now, and it is not in my older tt's (say, in the sixties). Also, when I had my first opportunity to read a foreign road tt, I found that its special instructions were laid out quite differently from those in the Southern tt's with which I was familiar, not everything that the Southern covered was covered--each road has its own ideas as to what should be included in its tt's.

Johnny

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

CShaveRR

  You first, James: the notification of clearance plates is usually shown on the sides of the car, just to the right of the reporting mark and number.

[snip]

Perhaps someone would be able to post pictures showing a clearance plate stencil or the unloading shoe on a quick-discharge hoppers. I have neither available, but would appreciate not having to post the next thousand words per topic!  

As a favor to Carl, here's a photo of the ''Plate F'' stencil, from - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3769409164_8085d3faa3.jpg  

Please excuse/ ignore the graffitti, but it seems unavoidable in all the photos I looked at to try to find an example.

Still looking for a photo of the 'shoe' for those hopper cars . . . next I'm going to try looking at Western Fuels Association = WFAX reporting marks, since I understand they have a fleet of quick-discharge bottom-dump cars.

- Paul North.

[CShaveRR]

Thanks for the favor, Paul!

Little to report here; we seem to be keeping up with the business. The first few furlough call-backs have begun showing up on the training board; I guess that means they're in the classroom. They'll probably be out working with some of the other crews in a week or so.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

CShaveRR

  [snip] Paul, the quick-discharge hoppers are probably rare in your neck of the woods, but lots of coal trains out of the Powder River Basin have them. They're best unloaded at power plants that unload from a trestle instead of a rotary dumper. The "shoe" is what triggers the unloading of the car (I'm not intimately familiar with this); when it's out, the doors are opened by air from the charged reservoirs on each car. Opening is nearly instantaneous, and the doors on the hoppers are such that the effect is like the bottom dropping out of the car! Unloading actually takes only a few seconds per car. In unit coal trains, they're actually fairly common, but the power plants that employ this type of unloading seem to be toward the Southeast.

The actual shoe is at the lower right corner of the side, above the truck. The most versatile coal cars around are quick-discharge hoppers with a rotary-coupler end--those can be used at just about any unloading facility around.

[snip]

Perhaps someone would be able to post pictures showing a clearance plate stencil or the unloading shoe on a quick-discharge hoppers. I have neither available, but would appreciate not having to post the next thousand words per topic!   [emphasis added - PDN]

OK Carl - I'm not quite there yet, but getting closer.  Oddly, it's the model railroad people who seem to have the most info on these.  But here's one, from http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=37259 :

The NOTES to the photo say:  

" Excerpt from blue block on right side of car:"THIS CAR EXCEEDS PLATE "F" WHEN PICK-UP SHOE IS IN EXTENDED POSITION. BUT IS WITHIN PLATE "C" WHEN GAGGED." "

Here's a description that's apparently from Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, as downloaded from - http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:6AbnQh3LUiIJ:www.rrmodelcraftsman.com/tt_ath_ort_5bay.html+ortner+hopper+car&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1 

[emphasis added - PDN]

"Streamlining the process of rapidly loading and discharging has led to the development of an entire range of specialized equipment that sees common usage today. The Ortner Corporation has been on the leading edge of rolling stock development and in the 1970s this led to the introduction of their 100 ton 5-bay rapid discharge hoppers. . . .

The prototype for this model is the 100-Ton capacity rapid-discharge hopper car built by the Ortner Freight Car Company (which subsequently became part of Trinity Industries) beginning in the 1970's. These cars were designed for use in unit train service with continuous unloading capability. In addition to the usual air brake system, these cars were equipped with a second air system that would automatically open and re-close the 5 sets of bottom hopper doors. Each car has small shoes that contact a third rail mounted about 3 feet above the running rails at the unloading facility. A low voltage on the third rail causes the car doors to open over the unloading pit, and a second third rail at the end of the facility causes the doors to re-close. This set of cars is lettered "CSDU" with CSUX reporting marks, representing the fleet of Ortner cars now operated by Colorado Springs Utilities.

[snip]

 Athearn has added the hopper door air tank and actuating cylinder to the "A" end of the car, and the two door actuating shoes on the lower edge of the car sides. . . . Athearn has made even more improvements to the underbody. . . . The hopper door detail has been completely revised and new detail parts have been added between the hoppers representing the door operating mechanisms.

[snip]

Plans for the Ortner rapid-discharge hopper cars appeared in the July 1981 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman and in the August 1981 issue of Model Railroader. The RMC plans were for a special four-bay version of the car delivered to the Southern Railway. The old Roundhouse and revised Athearn models closely match the plans for the five-bay version that appeared in MR."

Thanks much for your help with this one, Carl !

- Paul North.

 

 

[CShaveRR]

Oh, I'd say you're there, Paul...the shoe is the metal object (semi-cylindrical) directly underneath the blue box.

Now we have to find out what they use this car for--something not as heavy as coal, with those extensions on the sides and ends (coke?)

[Noah Hofrichter]

 Curiosity makes me ask, what's the function of the shoe on the hopper? Does it have something to do with being able to automatically open the doors when the car is in a certain position?

Noah

[CNW 6000]

I believe the answer to your question, Noah, was given in Paul's last post above. 

I thought I'd pop in now that I'm able to sit up w/o issues.  Got a (hopefully) 24 hour flu bug yesterday...it's almost done mopping the floor with me.  At least today was a good day to stay inside at a (currently) balmy 4 above.  Misty got this on Tuesday and I think I got it from her.  Aedan has been at G&Gs house as much as possible to keep him away from the bug.  I miss the little bugger tho..

[Noah Hofrichter]

Your right, Dan, I somehow managed to miss that sentence when I read it the first time (and it was even underlined!).

Glad to hear you and Misty are feeling better, and here's to hoping Aedan doesn't catch anything!

Noah

[CShaveRR]

I hope it's going away, Dan. Those little bugs are no fun. The one I had, which showed up after my pneumonia-clearing antibiotic cleansing, decided to make itself comfortable (and me uncomfortable) for over a month. Fortunately for me, it was more of a "southern discomfort", but it cleaned everything out, including the hydration, the electrolytes, and the prescription medications. I was a mess for a while.

Coffee will keep you awake, though. Are you sure you want that?

Our temperature right now is 10 above; they're saying it could get close to zero tonight. But after that it should slowly warm up, at least through Sunday. News reports were talking about nasty weather, which appears to be going to the south of us.

[The Butler]

Thanks, guys, for all that info.

Carl, that "nasty" weather should hit here.  The weather guy on TV has got us in the 3-6" of snow area.  After living in far Northeastern Wisconsin for five years and twenty years prior in Northwest suburban Chicago, I still smile when the locals start clearing the grocery shelves with a 1" forecast of snow.

[tree68]

The Weather Channel is focused on Texas and Oklahoma right now.  OKC got 6-8" of snow, which, of course, paralyzes them (I know, I lived there for two years).   Ironically, that's about how much I blew out of my driveway this morning, and life around here has hardly slowed down (a few people didn't at all, but they've been towed out of the ditches now).

Sometimes (actually most of the time) I'm glad I live in a place where the local township probably has more snowplows than all of Dallas...

[The Butler]

Just let the dogs out and noticed the flurries have started.  It is sticking.  They are calling for 6"+ in the counties just South of me, 1"-4" for my town.  I guess I'll get to watch this through the windows at work today.  Saint Louis is calling for an inch or less for the city proper.  The news is reporting the hardware stores here are sold out of ... snow sleds!

[CShaveRR]

I guess if you've got that whole inch of snow and call off school, the kids had better have sleds, right? I know I wouldn't have the time or desire to go sledding on a school night (we had a 300-foot driveway with a decent hill near the house, on which we could take a few runs, but the real sledding hill required a walk of several blocks).

Five above, as we get ready for work. We may have gotten a dusting of snow so far, but this is broom stuff. However, I was pointing out to Pat that I have yet to see the moon during this cycle, and it's just about full already.

[CNW 6000]

-5 as as I head out for work today.  Feeling about 85% of 'normal'.  Not supposed to get any of the white fun until possibly Tuesday, and even then not much is expected.  The teacher's union up here seems like they get a day off just about every week...and then they complain when a snow day happens!  Can't figure that one out.

Hopefully I can get trackside sometime this weekend.  Sit and watch sounds good about now...