Trackside Lounge: 1Q 2010 Edition

[The Butler]

Thanks for the responses, guys.  I never would have guessed sixteen miles per hour would be fast enough to do that to a rail car.  The thought of seeing a rail car teeter to the point of lifting the wheels off the rail is down right scary! 

[CShaveRR]

Today, Railway Age reported that yesterday, March 9, was the anniversary of the lowest point in the recession, based on the Dow Jones Industrial average. As of yesterday, the DJIA closed 65 percent higher than this nadir.

Railroads, on the other hand, have done a lot better than this average. Of the six reporting Class I railroads, only one--CN--failed to double its price over the year-ago figure. The best performer was KCS, which nearly tripled its price over the year (however, it was probably the railroad that had lost the most on its way down). No figures were given for BNSF, since its stock no longer exists on the open market.

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/rails-set-hot-pace-in-stock-market-recovery.html

[CShaveRR]

Noah Hofrichter

Every time I'm track side and think I've found a pretty bad stretch of track, I always just have to remember that, at least compared to the track in the following video, it's probably not that bad. This might have been posted around here somewhere before (as it's not my video):

http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=7404

The interesting part starts about 1 min and 10 seconds in to the video. That's definitely more than 3" out of cross-level!

Noah

Noah, I'm so glad to hear that that isn't your video. Anyone who stands that close to that track is crazy!

James, I think Paul did a good job of answering your question. I'm not sure it is the truck-center dimension that had to be 39 feet. The Pullman Standard 4750-cubic-foot covered hoppers were the worst offenders at rock-and-roll, and they had a truck-center length of 44'9". That would put the distance between the two inside axles at close to 39 feet.

Personally, I've seen freight-car wheels lift off the rail on one side and settle back down (much worse, and they would have gone over!), and I've been on locomotives whose suspension repeatedly bottomed out on some of the "mains" in our yard (back in the old days). Welded rail and better-maintained track have gone a long way toward eliminating sights like this.

[CShaveRR]

CopCarSS

Hey Gang,

I'm back from my trip. Didn't get to much rail activity, but I did get some shots of the old Buffalo Central Terminal while we were on our final approach into Buffalo Niagara International, so I'll get that posted once the shots are processed.

Beyond that, I heard that I-70 had a boulder mishap in Glenwood Canyon while I was away. Anybody know if it's affecting rail operations through the canyon?

Chris, the trains are still getting through without difficulty. There was definitely structural damage on I-70, though (I know we went through on that stretch in 2007, as I recognized the mountainside bridge). Don't know how soon any of it will be open.

[CNW 6000]

Noah Hofrichter

Every time I'm track side and think I've found a pretty bad stretch of track, I always just have to remember that, at least compared to the track in the following video, it's probably not that bad. This might have been posted around here somewhere before (as it's not my video):

http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=7404

The interesting part starts about 1 min and 10 seconds in to the video. That's definitely more than 3" out of cross-level!

Noah

Holy Cow!  Pretty wobbly there Noah. 

[CopCarSS]

Hey Gang,

I'm back from my trip. Didn't get to much rail activity, but I did get some shots of the old Buffalo Central Terminal while we were on our final approach into Buffalo Niagara International, so I'll get that posted once the shots are processed.

Beyond that, I heard that I-70 had a boulder mishap in Glenwood Canyon while I was away. Anybody know if it's affecting rail operations through the canyon?

[Noah Hofrichter]

Every time I'm track side and think I've found a pretty bad stretch of track, I always just have to remember that, at least compared to the track in the following video, it's probably not that bad. This might have been posted around here somewhere before (as it's not my video):

http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=7404

The interesting part starts about 1 min and 10 seconds in to the video. That's definitely more than 3" out of cross-level!

Noah

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Yes.  Back in the 1970's time frame that caused more than a few derailments, esp. on the IC as I recall.  As I recall, the 'rule of thumb' was something like 3 or more low joints - like 3" or more out of cross-level - would be enough to do it.  Part of the problem was that the common truck-center-to-truck-center wheelbase of the covered hoppers was very near to the length of the 39 ft. jointed rails - thus setting the stage for the harmonic rocking to start and propagate.  One of the remedies - aside from fixing the track - was to have the train accelerate past the speed where this most commonly occurred - something around 16 MPH - and operate either above or below that zone, e.g., below 10 or above 20 MPH.  ConRail had a variation - it changed its specs for the 'stagger' of the rail joints so that they were not across from the center or 1/2 point of the opposite rail, but at the 1/3 point instead.  I know this has been discussed on here before, but it was likely a couple years ago.  It comes under the general heading of "train-track dynamics".  I f you want to know more, perhaps we ought to start a new thread.

- Paul North.

[The Butler]

Has anyone heard of a covered hopper rocking so much on bad track that the car fell over on to it's side?

[CShaveRR]

Paul, those CSX workers were present at another project (Project B-8 was signal upgrading along the IHB, or "Beltway" in CREATE parlance, from CP Canal to Bedford Park). CSX is not a player in the Englewood Flyover, though some of their trains apparently originate and terminate at the NS intermodal facility near there.

Jim, I can go with the "Domino effect". And your scenario is exactly the way things work sometime, as you well know.

______________

Last night the third-shift hump didn't turn a wheel, due to heavy fog. They put on an extra day shift today. (It was foggy in this area all day yesterday, as well as last night and so far today.) The snow has pretty well disappeared in the 50-degree temperatures, except for the banks left by plows and shovelers.

______________

Metra recently published its 25th-anniversary issue of On the Bi-Level, a commuter publication with attitude. This was a sort of "best-of" issue:

http://metrarail.com/content/dam/metra/documents/Bi_Level/OTBLSpecial2010.pdf

It's not likely that commuter railroads in other locales could pull off a publication like this. This is the attitude that helps make Chicagoland what it is. If somebody gets too pompous or arrogant (or whiny), there's someone there to come right back at 'em with the perfect putdown.

Attitude, hot dogs, Metra, and the freight railroads: the rest of you can just eat your hearts out!

______________

Sad news: our car needs about $3000 worth of work on ball-joints, tie rods, brakes, and other such. Got to blame the roads around here for a lot of that (this is another place where infrastructure improvements and job-producing programs could be put to good use! ). I guess the fact that the car is eight years and 117,000 miles old doesn't help things, either.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Links to CREATE news releases on this -

News and Events webpage - http://www.createprogram.org/news.html - click on the ''Click here for more pictures'' link to see photos of the CSX workers who were at/ part of the 'ground-breaking' ceremony, at -

http://www.createprogram.org/picturePAGE2.html 

CREATE Receives $133 million for 63rd and State Flyover -

 http://www.createprogram.org/JanuaryNewsletter.html 

P1 - 63rd and State (Englewood) Flyover Fact Sheet - includes a little map on the 2nd page [2 pages, approx. 117 KB in size] -

http://www.createprogram.org/PDF/P1%20CREATE%20Project%20Fact%20Sheet%20FINAL.pdf 

There's undoubtedly a little more in the lengthy project summaries/ studies, but those can be pretty daunting to wade through to find those nuggets.

EDIT:  See also the regional 'overview' map [1 page, approx. 1.05 MB in size] at -

http://www.createprogram.org/PDF/PDF%201-20-10/CREATE_proj_overview_2010-01-12.pdf 

2nd EDIT:  This project is also briefly described in at least 2 places in the CREATE Final Feasibility Plan of August 2005 at  http://www.createprogram.org/pdf/final_feasibility_plan.pdf [358 pages, approx. 5.53 MB in size] - specifically, pages 108 - 111 of the ''Component Project Preliminary Screening Worksheets'' of the Final Preliminary Screening of August 2005 [pages 216 - 219 of 358 of the 'PDF' format version], and page 51 - Passenger Express Corridor projects [page 51 of 358 of the 'PDF' format version] - but neither adds much to the above information.

- Paul North.

 

[zardoz]

CShaveRR

Oberstar said the current track intersection is "the very symbol of gridlock and congestion."

(End of article) Congestion, yes. I don't see how the crossing can cause gridlock--there's no real "grid" involved here, and most dispatchers strive to keep their crossings clear.

He was probably just using terminology he is familiar with; kinda like how non-rails refer to fusees as flares (or how rails refer to flares as fusees).

Perhaps a better analogy would have been a reference to a "domino effect", where one delay can escalate into a SNAFU situation.

Dispatcher gives priority to a RI scoot (suburban train), causing a long freight to stop.
Long freight takes much time getting going, causing delays to Amtrak.
Amtrak gets priority over all other trains.
RI scoot held for Amtrak.
More freights held due to late scoots.
Someone closes anglecock on stopped freight.
Other freights must run around disabled freight, blocking other tracks.
Freight crews begin to run out of time, waiting for other trains.
etc.
etc.

[CShaveRR]

In what seems to me to be an unusual move, Railway Track and Structures published a revised story about its Englewood Flyover, effectively moving Englewood off the path of the Chicago-St. Louis high-speed service, while still keeping the option open for other high-speed routes. Have a look!

A $133-million federal stimulus project to build a railroad "flyover" at the Metra, Amtrak and freight tracks in Englewood on Chicago's south side will untie a knot in the nation's rail system and make way for high-speed rail, government and rail officials said Friday, according to the Chicago Sun-Times.

"The single biggest source of delays in the Midwest is right here at the Englewood crossing," said Amtrak chair Thomas Carper, at an announcement at the project site at 63rd Street. "This project is going to fix that. That's how important this is."

The project will create a railroad bridge to carry the north-south Metra Rock Island District line over the east-west Norfolk Southern/Amtrak tracks at 63rd St., near the Dan Ryan Expy. Ground will be broken on the project later this year, and it will be completed by 2012, said U.S. Rep. Dan Lipinski (D-Chicago), who has promoted the project as part of the Chicago Regional Environmental and Transportation Efficiency (CREATE) program.

The project is expected to create 1,450 jobs, improve traffic on the Metra Rock Island line and cut Amtrak and freight delays. The triple-tracked bridge will carry Metra operations over all four tracks of the Norfolk Southern, and possibly a fifth track for a high-speed intercity passenger rail connection to points east and/or south. The flyover is also a first step toward future CREATE projects that would cut delays on Metra's Southwest Service line, according to Lipinski.

The crossing sees 78 Metra trains, 46 freight trains and 14 Amtrak trains daily. "With all that traffic, it is unavoidable that we have conflicts and delays," Lipinski said.

The announcement also was attended by Mayor Daley, Gov. Quinn, U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Illinois) and U.S. Rep. James L. Oberstar (D-Minn.), chair of the House Transportation Committee.

Oberstar said the current track intersection is "the very symbol of gridlock and congestion."

(End of article) Congestion, yes. I don't see how the crossing can cause gridlock--there's no real "grid" involved here, and most dispatchers strive to keep their crossings clear.

[CShaveRR]

Actually, MC, there is a connection between the old RI and the old GM&O at the diamond in Joliet, and it would be in the right direction. And many years ago, there was more than talk about a connection from the old PRR (think Amtrak now) to the RI at Englewood, so that the RI commuter trains could have operated out of Union Station and LaSalle Street Station be eliminated (that idea seems totally ridiculous these days!). They went so far as to add structural work to the bridges in the immediate area of the crossing for this. That would be the way to run St. Louis trains through Englewood (as if that were a lofty goal), but a flyover would probably preclude such a connection.

[mudchicken]

CShaveRR

Wait a minute....!

 

From Railway Track and Structures:

 

On March 5, Congressman Dan Lipinski (D-Ill) joined House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee Chairman James Oberstar (D-Minn.), Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn and IDOT Secretary Gary Hannig for the groundbreaking on the Englewood Flyover, which is now expected to begin this year thanks to $133 million in new federal funding.

 

The Englewood Flyover will make high-speed rail possible by building a bridge to carry the Metra Rock Island District line over the Norfolk Southern/Amtrak tracks at 63rd Street in Chicago. It will eliminate 7,500 annual passenger hours of delay for riders on Metra's Rock Island District line, facilitate Chicago-to-St. Louis high-speed rail, and reduce freight delays. In addition, it is the critical first step toward eliminating 32,000 annual passenger hours of delay for riders on Metra's Southwest Service line.

 

Now, why didn't I think of that? If they start the Chicago-St. Louis trains somewhere out around Porter, they can build up quite a bit of speed before they shoot through Chicago!

Must be a stealth crossover and interlocking at Joliet involved!

[CShaveRR]

Wait a minute....!

From Railway Track and Structures:

On March 5, Congressman Dan Lipinski (D-Ill) joined House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee Chairman James Oberstar (D-Minn.), Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn and IDOT Secretary Gary Hannig for the groundbreaking on the Englewood Flyover, which is now expected to begin this year thanks to $133 million in new federal funding.

The Englewood Flyover will make high-speed rail possible by building a bridge to carry the Metra Rock Island District line over the Norfolk Southern/Amtrak tracks at 63rd Street in Chicago. It will eliminate 7,500 annual passenger hours of delay for riders on Metra's Rock Island District line, facilitate Chicago-to-St. Louis high-speed rail, and reduce freight delays. In addition, it is the critical first step toward eliminating 32,000 annual passenger hours of delay for riders on Metra's Southwest Service line.

Now, why didn't I think of that? If they start the Chicago-St. Louis trains somewhere out around Porter, they can build up quite a bit of speed before they shoot through Chicago!

[The Butler]

 Well, guys, I took a trip up to Desloge (day off) to check out that sign and the area.  Low and behold, the sign had been moved to the other side of the pole (now right-hand side of tracks for a south bound train) and a maintenance crew had the signal box open and a trench dug under the tracks next to the grade crossing just south of the sign.  There was a similar sign protecting the other side of the crossing.  Now, we know what it was for!

Thanks for all your input. 

[CShaveRR]

I know those red/yellow signs pretty well, MC. What James saw sounds a bit different--and I'll bet our Houston correspondent has nailed it (or posted it).

We came to work this morning to find our yard trashed, as it were--classifications with no place to put them, three tracks with rehumps on them, and other classifications in very strange places. The second shift worked twelve hours last night, and wasn't given the time to clean up after themselves, or to make room for the cars they had to hump. So we felt like we stepped into it, with almost 800 cars in the receiving yard. Well, we got the place straightened out, and the Yard 9 count down to under 500. Rumor has it that the third shift on Friday nights will be reinstituted next week. Also got the news that the son of one of our CROs was called back to work for his job on the main line, so things are looking up.

[mudchicken]

Carl:

Sounds like a weed weasel was in the 'hood or you had the old absolute "stop" sign with a red/yellow sign for a form "B" somewhere up to two miles in advance. (Don't go past the red sign without permission of the person who set it.)

[CShaveRR]

Nice to hear about these from a railroader who's seen them! Good explanation, Ed!

Brutal day at work today; I was apparently not at my best. No major disasters, thankfully, and I did catch a switch failure that could have put us out of business for a lot more than the ten minutes or so that it took to fix.

[edblysard]

We use them to warn of contractor crossings, temp crossings, hidden or obscured crossings in plants...sometimes our MOW have to jerry rig a temp crossing of our main to reach a siding or a industry track to affect repairs, and they install this sign to warn us, the T&E folks, that a crossing is there now whene before there was none.

With out a photo of the flag or sign and the surrounding area it is hard to say what it would be protecting.

Possible there was a crossing that has been removed and they simply forgot to remove the flag (sign)

[The Butler]

edblysard

James,

red flag with a corner to corner X, which may be white paint or a reflective white tape, with or without an edge border, is a crossing warning, usualy installed to warn train crew of a hidden or obscured crossing, often inside industries or a plant.

Thanks, since it recently showed, is it reasonable that there is a new grade crossing?  It is set just North of the existing grade crossing that has "whistle" signs, crossbucks, flashing lights and bell.  The line is the former single track main line of the Mississippi River and Bonne Terre (pronounced bon tare) Railway that no longer goes North of Bonne Terre.  It is rather open terrain, however the line does curve a little North of the crossing.  I did not think any trains traveled North of Desloge (pronounced d-loge where the "g" sounds like a "j").  I know there is a glass plant that gets covered hoppers in Desloge (South of the crossing).  I am not aware of any industries beyond the glass plant.  That doesn't mean there aren't any!

Well, it's probably more information than you need.  I am in a bit of a "Railroad Desert"  and that is the closest "active" line to where I live.  I use the term "active" loosely because, in four years, I have only seen a train there once.

[edblysard]

James,

red flag with a corner to corner X, which may be white paint or a reflective white tape, with or without an edge border, is a crossing warning, usualy installed to warn train crew of a hidden or obscured crossing, often inside industries or a plant.

[CShaveRR]

James, we have a rectangular white sign with a black "X" to the corners, that's a flanger signal (lift the flanger; an obstruction like a switch or grade crossing is here). It doesn't sound like your sign, except for the "X".

Dan, good luck in your observations. Only thing I can report is that the signal bridge at Finley Road has been put up. Still doesn't help me theorize where the crossovers will be, but I can look forward to having something to interpret very close to home.

[CNW 6000]

Hey folks,

I thought I'd pop in and say hi.  Been pretty busy at work and home lately thus no time for online fun and games.  Finally had a day somewhat 'off' and here's it's 10 to 6 and I'm finally with some 'down' time.  About the only thing to report is what I think is a 'new' intermodal train on the CN (118/119?) and lots of potash and autorack movements.  I'll hopefully have more time this weekend and keep up on the goings on.

Later,
Dan

[The Butler]

CShaveRR

The railroad term would be a Stop Sign, but this variant doesn't appear in my Special Instructions. Was the sign in the middle of the track or alongside the track? In the middle of the track, a solid read sign would indicate that the trackage beyond was out of service.

It was on the left side of the track, attached to a line side post.  If I had to guess, it was a foot and a half to two feet square.

[CShaveRR]

The railroad term would be a Stop Sign, but this variant doesn't appear in my Special Instructions. Was the sign in the middle of the track or alongside the track? In the middle of the track, a solid read sign would indicate that the trackage beyond was out of service.

[The Butler]

Hey, y'all, I've got a question.

The other day I saw on the UP's Bonne Terre Industrial Spur a large, red, square sign.  It had a white border (similar to a Stop sign) and a white "X" going from corner to corner.  Is this a "STOP" sign, a "DO NOT ENTER" sign, or something else and what is the railroad term for this sign?

Thanks, y'all.  

[CShaveRR]

Before the weekend is over, our temperatures might be pushing 50. We only got to (not above, just "to") 40 once during the entire month of February--40 is the normal high for March 1. In spite of temperatures that got into the (lower) 30s today, it feels nothing like spring.

Car repaired, income taxes filed today. Relatively little money was involved in any of the transactions (fortunately for the former, unfortunately for the latter). Now I can listen to all of those income-tax commercials with a clear conscience.

Nothing unusual observed on the rails today...we'll see what tomorrow brings after I've started the new work week.

Larry and Chris, safe travels this weekend...I envy you folks.

[tree68]

If Buffalo is anything like my area, you'll be seeing patches of grass...

I'm headed to Maryland this weekend - I'll see if they're dug out yet.