Trackside Lounge: 1Q 2010 Edition

[CShaveRR]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Carl -

The good news is, I found my photos of that C&O truck - and took some more on my way into the office this morning, before it started raining.

The bad news is - as you'll see in a moment - my memory from 2-1/2 years ago seems to be pretty poor, and I'm imagining things, it seems - no leaf springs in it, and no ''Huntington'' cast on the sideframes.  I have no idea what I've been thinking since back then . . .  

 

Although, the spring arrangement looks a little unusual to me, with those plates on the bottom, and what I supposed is called a 'spring plank' under and parallel to the truck bolster.  Also, the journal sizes are supposed to be 5-1/2'' x 10'' - is that a caboose or freight car size ?  (Oh yeah - ignore the stuff above the top of the bolster level in this photo, and maybe a few other places, too.  It seems that as part of the 'artistic license', the fabricator of this sculpture welded on a coupler shank turned sideways up there, as well as some kind of cylinder on top of the center plate, and a few other abstract added-on pieces.)

Whatever kind of truck this is, it presents a unique opportunity to view and illustrate view and dissect its various parts.  So maybe once we've confirmed that, I'll start a new thread and post some detail photos and we can get expert comments on what's being shown, what iot does, and whether it's still in use or not, etc.

- Paul North. 

Finally getting back to you, Paul. Sorry for the delay.

The 5 1/2 x 10 journal is the size used on 50-ton freight cars. Cabooses usually rode on 30-ton trucks (4 1/4 X 8).

The springs look funny, but may have been normal for 50-ton cars. We're used to seeing heavier trucks, which may have as many as nine group of springs, each with one spring inside another.

One thing that's missing from this truck is the brake beams and brake shoes. I wouldn't be surprised if the brass bearings that supported the truck frame over the axles are also missing (we had people at work who got busted for stealing those for their scrap value).

[Modelcar]

CShaveRR

The park now includes an informative kiosk for the Lincoln Highway. Would you believe that this, the first major "rock road" across the country, was initiated by the Federal government in the 19-teens with incentive money, and the road was named the Lincoln Highway to get the votes? Some things never change...and why on earth do people think that this is such a radical idea when applied to high-speed rail?

 

Carl....Interesting day trip you described.  On the Lincoln Highway.....Just a bit of trivia:  The little home town of ours back in Pennsylvania had the Lincoln Highway {route 30}, as it's main street until 1938 when a 7 mi. bypass took it just outside of town.  And to this day, there remains one of the famous concrete Lincoln Highway markers still standing in that little town.  {Stoystown}.  I believe the Boy Scouts were involved in installing them back in the late 20's....And at the same time Dad decided to incorporate a new ESSO Station adjacent of the town, on the new stretch of highway....Our home property fronted the new highway right of way.

[CShaveRR]

Paul_D_North_Jr

If any one of the red lights in a 3 head signal is replaced by a Lunar light it changes that signal from a Stop to a Restricted signal."

Any time a lunar white signal appears, it is a restricting signal. The westbound absolute signals at Rochelle have only two heads, so red-over-lunar is what I saw. That signal, by the way, changed to an Approach (yellow-over-red) before we left. The Restricting signal, in this case, had to be granted by the dispatcher to allow the following train to proceed into an occupied block. The approach signal just indicated that the preceding train had moved out of that block. For whatever reason, the dispatcher really wanted that second train to get through there.

Chris, a lunar-white signal is projected by a pale blue lens. With an incandescent light behind it, the light is as white as snow. A clear lens would project a white signal (used by some railroads for various reasons--actually an incandescent yellow).

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

See this short  thread - 1 page, 13 brief posts, some from familiar characters here - RE: Lunar Signal from late April 2003 -

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/5071/29249.aspx 

And from Al Krug's generalized explanation of Railroad Signals at -

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/signals/signals.htm  

 - so ''Your Signalage May Vary'': [emphasis added - PDN] 

"The 5th speed is Restricted speed. Restricted speed is defined differently by different railroads but the core element is that a train must be operated in such a manner that it can be stopped before it hits another train or anything else on the track. Restricted speed usually also has a maximum allowable speed associated with it. Maximum speeds for Restricted speed varies from 10 mph to 20 mph depending on the individual railroad. Restricted speed is shown by one of 3 methods. The first way is to use a Lunar colored light instead of a red light. Lunar color is a bluish white or a silverish white. If any one of the red lights in a 3 head signal is replaced by a Lunar light it changes that signal from a Stop to a Restricted signal."

- Paul North. 

[blhanel]

CShaveRR

It is automatic, Brian, and I suspect that it was just lucky that the UP dispatcher got this chance. After the first westbound train cleared, I saw the lunar light, but before the following westbound (all empty well cars, by the way), an eastbound manifest came through. He probably got the green while the westbound was going through--after the westbound had gotten the green, at any rate. And so forth. That lunar signal, however, has to be given (or at least encouraged--by the UP dispatcher. Perhaps someone with more dispatching experience (wake up, RWM!) can chime in here. All I think of when I see a lunar signal at a control point is, boy, how I love a parade!

I don't think it would be practical to treat an automatic interlocking like a four-way stop. I'm sure that as soon as UP's fleeting possibilities evaporated, that BNSF train got a signal. By the way, they were holding him clear back by the BNSF's yard--something made possible by the fact that the grade crossing south of that yard is in the process of being replaced with an overpass (had the crossing still been opened, it would have been blocked).

Ahhhhh... the part of your story that didn't initially register was the presence of the eastbound coming through.  Makes sense now- might as well give opposite direction traffic the green as long as they've got the diamond tied up anyway.

Chris, I believe that lunar is just a white light from the signal, but I don't know what it means versus a green light.

EDIT:  BTW, I remember watching on one outing to Rochelle when a BNSF stacker proceeded westbound through the diamond only to be stopped at the next signal, which left the rear of his consist blocking the diamond for about 20 minutes.  It was obvious from the scanner traffic that UP was getting antsy, and just before the stacker got the green you could hear UP trains approaching from both directions.  The diamond finally cleared, and within a minute two sets of UP engines hit it at the same time from both directions.  I was impressed...

[CopCarSS]

Dumb question time. What's a lunar signal?

[CShaveRR]

It is automatic, Brian, and I suspect that it was just lucky that the UP dispatcher got this chance. After the first westbound train cleared, I saw the lunar light, but before the following westbound (all empty well cars, by the way), an eastbound manifest came through. He probably got the green while the westbound was going through--after the westbound had gotten the green, at any rate. And so forth. That lunar signal, however, has to be given (or at least encouraged--by the UP dispatcher. Perhaps someone with more dispatching experience (wake up, RWM!) can chime in here. All I think of when I see a lunar signal at a control point is, boy, how I love a parade!

I don't think it would be practical to treat an automatic interlocking like a four-way stop. I'm sure that as soon as UP's fleeting possibilities evaporated, that BNSF train got a signal. By the way, they were holding him clear back by the BNSF's yard--something made possible by the fact that the grade crossing south of that yard is in the process of being replaced with an overpass (had the crossing still been opened, it would have been blocked).

[Mookie]

Owner's rights? 

[blhanel]

CShaveRR

The diamond was UP's the whole time we were there--as soon as the first westbound cleared the diamond itself there was a lunar-white signal for the next one. A BNSF train was being held east (south) of town for all of this.

Carl, this has me somewhat confused- I thought that the Rochelle diamond interlocking was totally automatic; as such, if the BNSF train had been waiting, he should've gotten preference over the second UP westbound, unless there's a wrinkle in the controlling software that gives preference to UP in some situations?

[CShaveRR]

Trip report:

As mentioned in the thread about the restaurant/tavern with a view, Pat and I decided that our day could be kept clear enough for us to take a day trip up that way, and possibly see some of those long CN freights that Dan keeps mentioning. We were looking forward to eating at that Marina, but it was closed. There were no signs on the entrances to suggest its hours (we'd gotten there between 11:00 and noon or whether it was closed on Mondays). With a controlled siding in the area, it was possible to see how two trains could be seen so quickly on this single-track line.

We decided to follow the tracks (more or less) up to Burlington. In the downtown area we took a turn toward the tracks--sort of a reflex action whenever lowering crossing gates are seen!) A southbound CN train went through--I don't think it was one of those 800-axle jobs, but it was decent-sized. Lots of box cars and potash covered hoppers. When the train cleared, we saw the Charcoal House just over the tracks! As we were finishing our meal, a northbound train came through--about the same mix of cars and roughly the same size. The view toward the track wasn't the greatest, but it was still good enough to see car numbers. Outside the other window was a patio for outdoor dining in the season, overlooking a river-walk and the White River. They had a Monday special--buy a burger and get one free: Pat and I each had different burgers (these were big things--probably half-pound; Pat's was a turkey-burger), and we got out of there for under twenty bucks, including a tip based on the higher price. I think this place more suited us than the restaurant at Silver Lake would have.

We then went to Elkhorn to visit a quilt shop, and decided to continue west to Beloit, where we found another quilt store in the downtown. From there, we decided to head down to Rockford, then Rochelle, before heading home. Would you believe that we discovered a freshly-opened Dog-'N'-Suds in Rockford? It was the wrong time for a dog, but we had to stop in for a drink!

We got to Rochelle just after the house/gift shop had closed (4:00). But we stayed at the park for a little while, and caught two trains while sitting there (one UP in each direction). The diamond was UP's the whole time we were there--as soon as the first westbound cleared the diamond itself there was a lunar-white signal for the next one. A BNSF train was being held east (south) of town for all of this.

The park now includes an informative kiosk for the Lincoln Highway. Would you believe that this, the first major "rock road" across the country, was initiated by the Federal government in the 19-teens with incentive money, and the road was named the Lincoln Highway to get the votes? Some things never change...and why on earth do people think that this is such a radical idea when applied to high-speed rail?

Anyway, the next westbound came through as we were headed out, and on the way home we encountered three more westbound moves. Then, after DeKalb, everything was eastbound and stopped (presumably due to the rush-hour curfew). The one eastbound we had seen at Rochelle was just outside DeKalb, and there were three more eastbounds sitting between there and Elburn--and a coal train sitting at LaFox on the triple-track. We stopped to do some shopping in Geneva, and were caught by an eastbound stack train east of there (it may have been part of the backup we'd seen earlier). We also saw three scoots on the trip, east of Elburn.

If spontaneous trips like this are among the possibilities when I'm not tied to a work schedule, that retirement gig might not be so bad after all!

[CNW 6000]

Jim-
I know I hear dynamics all the time...so that's pretty likely.  What's "power braking"?

CShaveRR

Dan, it might take a lot of experience to determine loads according to the car type. You have to know a bit about the geography--paper products probably go south in the box cars, kaolin comes north (to coat the paper) in small tank cars, or possibly covered hoppers. If you see the flat cars with lumber on them, it's probably coming from northwestern Canada. Covered hopper cars of smaller capacity (up to 4750 these days) probably have potash in them, from Saskatchewan. Tank cars from Canada: sulfur (sorry...sulphur!) in small ones, lp gas in the great big ones. Tank cars are more specific in what they carry, so you won't see, for example, tank cars carrying Kaolin north and sulfur south.

 

That makes sense for the majority of what I see.  Thanks Carl.  I will begin to keep a sharper eye out.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Carl -

The good news is, I found my photos of that C&O truck - and took some more on my way into the office this morning, before it started raining.

The bad news is - as you'll see in a moment - my memory from 2-1/2 years ago seems to be pretty poor, and I'm imagining things, it seems - no leaf springs in it, and no ''Huntington'' cast on the sideframes.  I have no idea what I've been thinking since back then . . .  

 

Although, the spring arrangement looks a little unusual to me, with those plates on the bottom, and what I supposed is called a 'spring plank' under and parallel to the truck bolster.  Also, the journal sizes are supposed to be 5-1/2'' x 10'' - is that a caboose or freight car size ?  (Oh yeah - ignore the stuff above the top of the bolster level in this photo, and maybe a few other places, too.  It seems that as part of the 'artistic license', the fabricator of this sculpture welded on a coupler shank turned sideways up there, as well as some kind of cylinder on top of the center plate, and a few other abstract added-on pieces.)

Whatever kind of truck this is, it presents a unique opportunity to view and illustrate view and dissect its various parts.  So maybe once we've confirmed that, I'll start a new thread and post some detail photos and we can get expert comments on what's being shown, what iot does, and whether it's still in use or not, etc.

- Paul North. 

[The Butler]

Chris,

  Was this park part of a right-a-way or was the track put down for the locos. and the depot moved to that spot?  I love the gray painted track!

[Modelcar]

A beautiful group of photos.  Loved the view of inside the RR car.  And just a great pic of the Centennial....What an appearance of brute strength...!

[CopCarSS]

Mook,

My congratulations to you and Driver! You guys should have a blast at the Tower. I did, although I wish I could have spent a little more time there. One of these days I'll get back.

If you get a chance, the Cody Park Railroad Museum on the north side of town is worth a stop, too. They've got a Challenger in the Greyhound Scheme:

A Centennial:

You can get into the cab of both. What really neat, is everything is marked. This was especially fun on the Challenger. I've been in steam locomotive cabs before that marked the throttle, Johnson Bar, Brakes, etc. But every valve in the cab was marked on this one:

Additionally, there's a short train with a few cars of displays that you can check out too. Here's a shot from inside the RPO:

And some of the displays in one of the other cars (baggage car, perhaps?):

The depot is also tourable. Unfortunately, I don't have anything good from the depot, but you can see it on the right side of this photo:

Everything is free, too. Definately worth a stop if you're in the North Platte Area.

Enjoy your trip!

EDIT: I agree with Carl, too, that US 30 should be utilized for at least part of the trip. I took it all the way from Lincoln to North Platte, and was glad I did. The parade of stuff was most impressive! I stopped a couple places along the way and just sat and watched the action. Cozad (the 100th Meridian City) is a particular favorite of mine:

[CShaveRR]

Uh-oh!

Ed, if you're around, could you provide some enlightening thoughts?

This came from the UTU web site this morning:

HOUSTON — Officials are trying to find out what went wrong after a Union Pacific train started moving Sunday morning with no one at the controls, the KHOU Web site reports.

The runaway train traveled through downtown Houston on its own for about 15 minutes before crews could get it to stop.

The train traveled from 902 Washington to the 2000 block of Rothwell, where it stopped just south of Interstate 10 East.

No one was hurt.

[CShaveRR]

Paul, the journal size (two dimensions) ought to be stamped on the frame as well, but the leaf springs are pretty much a giveaway. Huntington, West Virginia, was a major shop location on the C&O (been in those shops a couple of times), as well as the location of a manufacturing plant of American Car and Foundry--home of a majority of the pre-1995 Center Flow covered hoppers.

Woke up to an inch or so of snow on the grassy places (and all over our crocuses). It will probably go today, if it doesn't get added to. Streets and sidewalks are just wet.

Today's my Friday--I get to work with my favorite hump conductor today, too! And the "running conversationalist" in one of the lower towers also laid off. It ought to be a nice, quiet day.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Carl, "C&O" - as well as "Huntington" (sp ?) - are cast into the truck sideframe, and it does have leaf springs as I recall - that was the clue for me.  The journal sizes might be tough - I believe they welded the journal box lids shut - kids, you know.  Monday afternoon, if it's not too rainy - or Tuesday, then.

- Paul North.

[CShaveRR]

Wow--I'm going to be busy here for a while!

SJ--congratulations to DE from both of us. Be sure and take U.S. 30 at least one direction along your route! And, I noticed that you're going to visit the Golden Spike on May 10--which happens to be the 141st anniversary of the driving of the original golden spike at Promontory.

Paul, I'll be looking forward to the information off the castings: if it has "C&O" on the casting, you're pretty safe at guessing its origin. A date might be helpful in determining the actual series from which it came. And the size of the journal (as well as the presence of leaf springs instead of coil springs) might help in determining whether it's in fact a caboose truck. Thanks for the quilt references...glad to know there are things for non-railfans to visit!

Dan, it might take a lot of experience to determine loads according to the car type. You have to know a bit about the geography--paper products probably go south in the box cars, kaolin comes north (to coat the paper) in small tank cars, or possibly covered hoppers. If you see the flat cars with lumber on them, it's probably coming from northwestern Canada. Covered hopper cars of smaller capacity (up to 4750 these days) probably have potash in them, from Saskatchewan. Tank cars from Canada: sulfur (sorry...sulphur!) in small ones, lp gas in the great big ones. Tank cars are more specific in what they carry, so you won't see, for example, tank cars carrying Kaolin north and sulfur south.

Our rules now prohibit trains from being overly heavy on the hind end: the rear quarter of the train may not contain more than a third of the weight (when the train weighs more than 7000 tons).

I've heard rumors that the third-shift hump will begin working seven days a week again soon. They'd probably be able to stay busy most of the time; we have hardly been able to keep up with the incoming trains lately.

[Mookie]

BC - et al:  I am all twitterpated.  Driver told me he will retire 5/7 and 5/10 we are heading to North Platte and the Golden Spike at the UP yard.  Just the two of us!  Imagine that!  Last time we were there was just before they decided to build the new tower.  So we are going to go check it out. 

[zardoz]

CNW 6000

Speaking of monster trains (I have the recording of the 181.1 detector again if anyone wants to see it...caught another big 'un yesterday SB from Neenah.  205 cars and three six-axle motors = 838 axles.

I bet they use a lot of power-braking on those trains. Or does CN require the use of dymanics, regardless of train size and/or blocking??

[CNW 6000]

I'll show some inexperience here...but I can't tell what's in the various boxcars by name/number like some folks can or know what's in them.  I can tell loads vs empties and the different types of car (boxcar, flat, tank, etc).  About a third of the time I remember to look at the springs on the cars and it seems that sometimes I see loads closer to the rear and empties in the middle/front...sometimes more loads up front and empties mid/rear.  I can't figure out a rhyme/reason why that is.

Speaking of monster trains (I have the recording of the 181.1 detector again if anyone wants to see it...caught another big 'un yesterday SB from Neenah.  205 cars and three six-axle motors = 838 axles.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

CShaveRR

I finished editing a book today--it's the second edition of a book on the C&O's steel cabooses. Anyone who's acquainted with "Mr. Caboose"--a.k.a. Dwight Jones--knows how good this is going to be!  [snip]

Carl, this is a little 'off-the-wall', but here goes -

A modern abstract art sculpture in a nearby Allentown park is built around a railroad car truck.  From the components and marks on the truck sideframe, I've been suspecting it came from a C&O caboose.  When I have a chance early next week, I'll take and upload a photo of it so that you can see for yourself.  (I did have a few, but can't find them, somewhat surprisingly.)

- Paul North.

[CShaveRR]

I'll watch 'em, Jim--but they have rules against that sort of thing now! Those bulkhead flat cars probably weighed a heck of a lot more than the 40-foot CN box cars that were also in those trains. I used to hate humping those trains from Itasca--all CN cars, either lumber in box cars, lumber on those green-and-black DWC bulkhead flats, or potash in those cylindrical gray covered hoppers. Boring and confusing, regardless of how they were positioned.

[zardoz]

CNW 6000

zardoz

CNW 6000

Trains on the CN are definately back to 'longer' lengths.  I've heard 650+ axle-count trains almost daily lately.  Even a few in the low 700s. 

I have to give credit to the locomotive engineers that run those trains.  To operate a train of 170+ cars over the roller-coaster profile of CN trackage in Wisconsin without getting knuckles or drawbars shows the high level of skill those engineers possess. 

I heard of another monster but didn't actually witness it.  A "reliable source" informed me that there was a 192 car train from Stevens Point to Superior within the past week.  I would hate to be the conductor on something that size and get nailed by a detector anywhere near the rear.

Dan or Carl,

Have either of you noticed how those monster CN trains are blocked? 

I remember getting the CNW trains from Itasca (ITPRA) that were frequently 135+ cars, which doesn't sound too bad until you realize that those trains were usually 10,000 tons, and to make it much worse, they always had a big cut (~50 cars) of bulkhead flats full of lumber right on the rear end.  It made for a very difficult train to operate smoothly.  If the CN trains are blocked similarly, I am amazed that they get over the road without generating any scrap metal.

[CShaveRR]

I finished editing a book today--it's the second edition of a book on the C&O's steel cabooses. Anyone who's acquainted with "Mr. Caboose"--a.k.a. Dwight Jones--knows how good this is going to be!

I wish I could have stayed in Elmhurst for a while after work today. En route to mailing Dwight's manuscript back to him, I was blocked by a westbound stack train coming from Global 1. As I was crossing the tracks, I could see the lights of two more westbounds waiting to leave Proviso. (Lights aren't uncommon here, but often it's yard engines or outbounds getting their air tests or otherwise not ready to go. I ignore the lights unless it's headlights on bright and ditch lights illuminated--as it was with the two trains in this case.)

Still nice here today--above 60 as we speak--but there's a cloud bank to our west, and I understand Iowa's down into the 30s. We're supposed to get about an inch of wet, slushy stuff over the weekend.

[CShaveRR]

I don't think it's going to get as warm today as they thought--maybe that will soften the blow that we get Saturday, when there might be snow in the mix.

Well, I had a decent day today...was able to route a couple of cars to their destination with a little detective work (would you believe a wrong city name on the billing address--caught using the ZIP code?), no equipment issues, and (unlike some fellow operators) no in-wrongs and no locomotives stubbing their toes on a switch. That's nothing to hold over their heads--just reporting that I seem to be the only one who made lemonade out of the lemons. And that's this time...if I keep tempting fate like this, I'll be having "one of those days" before long. But as far as that detective work, I suspect that I'm the only one who could have pulled it off as quickly as I did, just using available information.

[AgentKid]

CShaveRR

a lot of those Canadian covered hoppers look just like the ones I remember seeing when I hired out

 

I was just looking at the Canadian Freight Railcar Gallery and the oldest Canadian Wheat Board hoppers they list are CPWX 600700-601073 built by National Steel Car in 1972. So I was rushing things saying they were 40 years old yet. But they are looking pretty ragged.

 Bruce

 

[CShaveRR]

Bruce, I agree with you--a lot of those Canadian covered hoppers look just like the ones I remember seeing when I hired out, if not before. I know some are newer, but it's hard to keep track of just how old which groups are. And some of these cars have probably gone by the wayside and I just haven't noticed.

I know how exciting it was to see a train--any train--where I was growing up, and vowed to go to places where I could see more--and even more! It was big stuff when I got to see meets between two trains, or see how they were set up, back then. I don't get that in multiple-track territory--it's more like keeping trains out of each other's way.

By the way, I may have mentioned that the weather yesterday was beautiful. Today was even warmer, and tomorrow's going to be the best of all, with highs tickling 70 (from there it goes downhill--cooler Friday, precipitation that will eventually become snow over the weekend). But...it sure was nice yesterday! And yesterday was six weeks, to the day, after Ground Hog Day!

(I got a hair cut in honor of that momentous occasion--the rest of the hairs were cut out of sheer necessity.)

[AgentKid]

Carl, sounds like you had a really enjoyable day.

For the first time in I can't remember when, when I was on streets with a view of tracks, I saw trains two days in a row (Sunday & Monday). I think this might be a sign of this improving economy they are talking about. It is not like they stopped running trains every day, but with no particular rhyme or reason to my schedule and still seeing two trains in about ten minutes total trackside time is interesting.

They were both big grain trains but I didn't get to see the power on either one. Sundays train was heading north on the Red Deer Sub. with what would be empties for elevators north of Calgary. Yesterdays train was an eastbound coming from Vancouver with more empties. I think there must be a big new sale to some Asian country or to Russia.

Some of those covered hoppers are coming up to 40 years of age and were looking a lot worse for wear. I haven't heard recently how the rebuilding program is going.

Anyway I think I enjoyed seeing my two trains as much as you enjoyed seeing all the trains you did.

Bruce