Trackside Lounge: 1Q 2010 Edition

[zardoz]

CShaveRR

Oberstar said the current track intersection is "the very symbol of gridlock and congestion."

(End of article) Congestion, yes. I don't see how the crossing can cause gridlock--there's no real "grid" involved here, and most dispatchers strive to keep their crossings clear.

He was probably just using terminology he is familiar with; kinda like how non-rails refer to fusees as flares (or how rails refer to flares as fusees).

Perhaps a better analogy would have been a reference to a "domino effect", where one delay can escalate into a SNAFU situation.

Dispatcher gives priority to a RI scoot (suburban train), causing a long freight to stop.
Long freight takes much time getting going, causing delays to Amtrak.
Amtrak gets priority over all other trains.
RI scoot held for Amtrak.
More freights held due to late scoots.
Someone closes anglecock on stopped freight.
Other freights must run around disabled freight, blocking other tracks.
Freight crews begin to run out of time, waiting for other trains.
etc.
etc.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Links to CREATE news releases on this -

News and Events webpage - http://www.createprogram.org/news.html - click on the ''Click here for more pictures'' link to see photos of the CSX workers who were at/ part of the 'ground-breaking' ceremony, at -

http://www.createprogram.org/picturePAGE2.html 

CREATE Receives $133 million for 63rd and State Flyover -

 http://www.createprogram.org/JanuaryNewsletter.html 

P1 - 63rd and State (Englewood) Flyover Fact Sheet - includes a little map on the 2nd page [2 pages, approx. 117 KB in size] -

http://www.createprogram.org/PDF/P1%20CREATE%20Project%20Fact%20Sheet%20FINAL.pdf 

There's undoubtedly a little more in the lengthy project summaries/ studies, but those can be pretty daunting to wade through to find those nuggets.

EDIT:  See also the regional 'overview' map [1 page, approx. 1.05 MB in size] at -

http://www.createprogram.org/PDF/PDF%201-20-10/CREATE_proj_overview_2010-01-12.pdf 

2nd EDIT:  This project is also briefly described in at least 2 places in the CREATE Final Feasibility Plan of August 2005 at  http://www.createprogram.org/pdf/final_feasibility_plan.pdf [358 pages, approx. 5.53 MB in size] - specifically, pages 108 - 111 of the ''Component Project Preliminary Screening Worksheets'' of the Final Preliminary Screening of August 2005 [pages 216 - 219 of 358 of the 'PDF' format version], and page 51 - Passenger Express Corridor projects [page 51 of 358 of the 'PDF' format version] - but neither adds much to the above information.

- Paul North.

 

[CShaveRR]

Paul, those CSX workers were present at another project (Project B-8 was signal upgrading along the IHB, or "Beltway" in CREATE parlance, from CP Canal to Bedford Park). CSX is not a player in the Englewood Flyover, though some of their trains apparently originate and terminate at the NS intermodal facility near there.

Jim, I can go with the "Domino effect". And your scenario is exactly the way things work sometime, as you well know.

______________

Last night the third-shift hump didn't turn a wheel, due to heavy fog. They put on an extra day shift today. (It was foggy in this area all day yesterday, as well as last night and so far today.) The snow has pretty well disappeared in the 50-degree temperatures, except for the banks left by plows and shovelers.

______________

Metra recently published its 25th-anniversary issue of On the Bi-Level, a commuter publication with attitude. This was a sort of "best-of" issue:

http://metrarail.com/content/dam/metra/documents/Bi_Level/OTBLSpecial2010.pdf

It's not likely that commuter railroads in other locales could pull off a publication like this. This is the attitude that helps make Chicagoland what it is. If somebody gets too pompous or arrogant (or whiny), there's someone there to come right back at 'em with the perfect putdown.

Attitude, hot dogs, Metra, and the freight railroads: the rest of you can just eat your hearts out!

______________

Sad news: our car needs about $3000 worth of work on ball-joints, tie rods, brakes, and other such. Got to blame the roads around here for a lot of that (this is another place where infrastructure improvements and job-producing programs could be put to good use! ). I guess the fact that the car is eight years and 117,000 miles old doesn't help things, either.

[The Butler]

Has anyone heard of a covered hopper rocking so much on bad track that the car fell over on to it's side?

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Yes.  Back in the 1970's time frame that caused more than a few derailments, esp. on the IC as I recall.  As I recall, the 'rule of thumb' was something like 3 or more low joints - like 3" or more out of cross-level - would be enough to do it.  Part of the problem was that the common truck-center-to-truck-center wheelbase of the covered hoppers was very near to the length of the 39 ft. jointed rails - thus setting the stage for the harmonic rocking to start and propagate.  One of the remedies - aside from fixing the track - was to have the train accelerate past the speed where this most commonly occurred - something around 16 MPH - and operate either above or below that zone, e.g., below 10 or above 20 MPH.  ConRail had a variation - it changed its specs for the 'stagger' of the rail joints so that they were not across from the center or 1/2 point of the opposite rail, but at the 1/3 point instead.  I know this has been discussed on here before, but it was likely a couple years ago.  It comes under the general heading of "train-track dynamics".  I f you want to know more, perhaps we ought to start a new thread.

- Paul North.

[Noah Hofrichter]

Every time I'm track side and think I've found a pretty bad stretch of track, I always just have to remember that, at least compared to the track in the following video, it's probably not that bad. This might have been posted around here somewhere before (as it's not my video):

http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=7404

The interesting part starts about 1 min and 10 seconds in to the video. That's definitely more than 3" out of cross-level!

Noah

[CopCarSS]

Hey Gang,

I'm back from my trip. Didn't get to much rail activity, but I did get some shots of the old Buffalo Central Terminal while we were on our final approach into Buffalo Niagara International, so I'll get that posted once the shots are processed.

Beyond that, I heard that I-70 had a boulder mishap in Glenwood Canyon while I was away. Anybody know if it's affecting rail operations through the canyon?

[CNW 6000]

Noah Hofrichter

Every time I'm track side and think I've found a pretty bad stretch of track, I always just have to remember that, at least compared to the track in the following video, it's probably not that bad. This might have been posted around here somewhere before (as it's not my video):

http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=7404

The interesting part starts about 1 min and 10 seconds in to the video. That's definitely more than 3" out of cross-level!

Noah

Holy Cow!  Pretty wobbly there Noah. 

[CShaveRR]

CopCarSS

Hey Gang,

I'm back from my trip. Didn't get to much rail activity, but I did get some shots of the old Buffalo Central Terminal while we were on our final approach into Buffalo Niagara International, so I'll get that posted once the shots are processed.

Beyond that, I heard that I-70 had a boulder mishap in Glenwood Canyon while I was away. Anybody know if it's affecting rail operations through the canyon?

Chris, the trains are still getting through without difficulty. There was definitely structural damage on I-70, though (I know we went through on that stretch in 2007, as I recognized the mountainside bridge). Don't know how soon any of it will be open.

[CShaveRR]

Noah Hofrichter

Every time I'm track side and think I've found a pretty bad stretch of track, I always just have to remember that, at least compared to the track in the following video, it's probably not that bad. This might have been posted around here somewhere before (as it's not my video):

http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=7404

The interesting part starts about 1 min and 10 seconds in to the video. That's definitely more than 3" out of cross-level!

Noah

Noah, I'm so glad to hear that that isn't your video. Anyone who stands that close to that track is crazy!

James, I think Paul did a good job of answering your question. I'm not sure it is the truck-center dimension that had to be 39 feet. The Pullman Standard 4750-cubic-foot covered hoppers were the worst offenders at rock-and-roll, and they had a truck-center length of 44'9". That would put the distance between the two inside axles at close to 39 feet.

Personally, I've seen freight-car wheels lift off the rail on one side and settle back down (much worse, and they would have gone over!), and I've been on locomotives whose suspension repeatedly bottomed out on some of the "mains" in our yard (back in the old days). Welded rail and better-maintained track have gone a long way toward eliminating sights like this.

[CShaveRR]

Today, Railway Age reported that yesterday, March 9, was the anniversary of the lowest point in the recession, based on the Dow Jones Industrial average. As of yesterday, the DJIA closed 65 percent higher than this nadir.

Railroads, on the other hand, have done a lot better than this average. Of the six reporting Class I railroads, only one--CN--failed to double its price over the year-ago figure. The best performer was KCS, which nearly tripled its price over the year (however, it was probably the railroad that had lost the most on its way down). No figures were given for BNSF, since its stock no longer exists on the open market.

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/rails-set-hot-pace-in-stock-market-recovery.html

[The Butler]

Thanks for the responses, guys.  I never would have guessed sixteen miles per hour would be fast enough to do that to a rail car.  The thought of seeing a rail car teeter to the point of lifting the wheels off the rail is down right scary! 

[mudchicken]

If you want to get techical about it, railcars belonging to DM&E derailed and fell over in South Dakota & Nebraska in the early days of that railroad at ZERO (0) miles per hour. Cause: Unstable subgrade in the marsh areas that that railroad ran on that it inherited from CNW. There were also standing derailments caused by exceedingly bad tie and ballast conditions. (Penn Central had a few too)

[CNW 6000]

mudchicken

If you want to get techical about it, railcars belonging to DM&E derailed and fell over in South Dakota & Nebraska in the early days of that railroad at ZERO (0) miles per hour. Cause: Unstable subgrade in the marsh areas that that railroad ran on that it inherited from CNW. There were also standing derailments caused by exceedingly bad tie and ballast conditions. (Penn Central had a few too)

Ha!  The ultimate anti-graffiti defense...

Trains on the CN are definately back to 'longer' lengths.  I've heard 650+ axle-count trains almost daily lately.  Even a few in the low 700s.  I do wonder if that has been rough on the main (especially near Neenah) as the last two times up there I saw quite a few hi-rail trucks either on the Neenah-controlled siding or the main working on rails or switches.  Usually too far away for my camera to reach to help me guess what they're working on.

[CShaveRR]

Back then, MC, I was more concerned with the rail turning over beneath us than I was with us actually turning over.

Dan, it's the time of year when the ground softens, and anything and everything goes out of whack. We were dealing with a lot of switch problems in the yard yesterday. FRA would spot 'em and we'd fix 'em...but not before they caused a session of "Adventures in Creative Classification." I don't want another day like that!

[CShaveRR]

from Railway Age today:

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood had a “little bit of political advice” for the airline industry Tuesday.

“Don’t be against high speed rail,” LaHood said. “It’s coming to America. This is the President’s vision, this is the Vice President’s vision, this is America’s vision. We’re going to get into the high speed rail business.’’

“People want alternatives,’’ he said. “People are still going to fly, but we need alternatives. So get with the program.”

LaHood made these comments in a Q&A session as he addressed the Federal Aviation Administration’s annual forecasting conference in Washington, D.C. The first questioner wanted to know why the administration was giving $8 billion to high speed rail.

Eight billion is chump change compared to what they've been getting for years.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

''+1''

Two good posts back-to-back, Carl - thanks !

- Paul North. 

[CNW 6000]

CShaveRR

from Railway Age today:

 

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood had a “little bit of political advice” for the airline industry Tuesday.

 

“Don’t be against high speed rail,” LaHood said. “It’s coming to America. This is the President’s vision, this is the Vice President’s vision, this is America’s vision. We’re going to get into the high speed rail business.’’

 

“People want alternatives,’’ he said. “People are still going to fly, but we need alternatives. So get with the program.”

 

LaHood made these comments in a Q&A session as he addressed the Federal Aviation Administration’s annual forecasting conference in Washington, D.C. The first questioner wanted to know why the administration was giving $8 billion to high speed rail.

 

Eight billion is chump change compared to what they've been getting for years.

Agreed.

[CShaveRR]

Thanks, Paul! I do what I can.

Dan, you might be right about CN trains getting longer. On the way to work today I was stopped in Villa Park by a very long CN eastbound train (this is the former IC Iowa Division, known as the Chicago, Central & Pacific for a time). I should have counted axles... He took several minutes to get across, moving at 35-40 m.p.h.

[CNW 6000]

CShaveRR

Dan, you might be right about CN trains getting longer. On the way to work today I was stopped in Villa Park by a very long CN eastbound train (this is the former IC Iowa Division, known as the Chicago, Central & Pacific for a time). I should have counted axles... He took several minutes to get across, moving at 35-40 m.p.h.

CCP, eh?  I was too lazy to look up those reporting marks when I saw a beat up Jordan Spreader at Shops Yard (NFDL) last winter.  Makes sense now. 

Yesterday (in the fog) I sat where I met you and your wife while I had some time to kill.  Must've been a slow day as I only saw 2 trains in almost 90 minutes.  It was also a fairly quiet day on the radio.  I heard the NB one first at 4 detectors!  First was south of Shops at MP 144.6, then 196.1 south of Oshkosh, train then passed me, short while later at 181.1 south of Neenah and then ever so faintly at 194.6 NW of Neenah going towards Stevens Point.  The second train must've been in the siding at Anton (just past 194.6) because shortly after the NB cleared I heard the 194.6 detector sound off but southbound.  The reverse happened!  I heard it on all 4 detectors.  Never had that happen before.  NB train was 672 axles (3xSD75I for power & 165 cars) and SB was 700 axles on the head (2 GEVOs, 2 -9s for power & 171 cars).  SB was definately more loads than empties. 

[zardoz]

CNW 6000

Trains on the CN are definately back to 'longer' lengths.  I've heard 650+ axle-count trains almost daily lately.  Even a few in the low 700s. 

I have to give credit to the locomotive engineers that run those trains.  To operate a train of 170+ cars over the roller-coaster profile of CN trackage in Wisconsin without getting knuckles or drawbars shows the high level of skill those engineers possess. 

[CShaveRR]

Same crossing, another train today. This one was westbound, at about the same time as yesterday's eastbound. And it seemed just as long (I'd bet they were close to 170 cars, but maybe they just seemed that way because they were blocking my commute). Then this afternoon, when Pat and I were out running errands, we were blocked here again--this time by a local with no more than 15 cars.

I've been having more luck seeing trains on CN lately than I am on the UP through town!

I forgot to mention that we were out with our daughter and all three grandkids for a trip into Chicago on Monday (by mom-mobile, not by train). I had to be in the far back of the van, sharing the seat with Katelyn, age 5. I mentioned to her that sometime when the weather was good, I'd like to take her down to the tracks somewhere and look for trains. You should have seen her eyes light up! She actually remembered the time over a year ago that we walked across the street from the restaurant in Downers Grove (2Toots), and stood trackside for about five minutes. She remembered that I showed her the signals. But we didn't see trains then...whenever we do it again, we hope to change that!

[CopCarSS]

As promised, here's my shot of Buffalo Central Terminal while we were on final approach to Runway 5 at BUF:

I've got all my stuff taken from the air posted. There's some nice views of Chicago and Buffalo, with a couple bonus shots of southern Detroit and a few shots along Lakes Michigan and Erie. The set is here.

[The Butler]

Cool photo, Chris.

  Would this have been where my mom, brother and I caught an Amtrak from Buffalo to Chicago in the late 1970's?  That trip and the trip back were the only interstate train trips I have ever taken.  

[CopCarSS]

Hi James,

BCT was in use until 1979, so I would say that yes, this is probably where you departed from.

[Modelcar]

.....Enjoyed all the photos Chris.

[CShaveRR]

Chris, that's UP's Global 1 in the foreground of the shot that you labeled as the United Center. Just below that is the BNSF (ex-BN) main line.

[CNW 6000]

zardoz

CNW 6000

Trains on the CN are definately back to 'longer' lengths.  I've heard 650+ axle-count trains almost daily lately.  Even a few in the low 700s. 

I have to give credit to the locomotive engineers that run those trains.  To operate a train of 170+ cars over the roller-coaster profile of CN trackage in Wisconsin without getting knuckles or drawbars shows the high level of skill those engineers possess. 

I heard of another monster but didn't actually witness it.  A "reliable source" informed me that there was a 192 car train from Stevens Point to Superior within the past week.  I would hate to be the conductor on something that size and get nailed by a detector anywhere near the rear.

[CShaveRR]

Up on time this morning. All clocks in the house were changed last night, and we went to bed at the "new" time. Cell phone changed itself. I haven't changed my (railroad) wrist watch yet; that will be done after I compare it to standard time at work, via phone. I set it about three seconds fast; it will be within five seconds at least for the rest of the month.

Dan, it occurred to me that some of the monsters I've been seeing on CN could be the same ones you see. I think that even before the EJ&E merger, CN was routing some of its trains off the old WC onto the EJ&E, and then in to the city on the old IC. On the other hand, cars that look like they came from "up north" were in the minority on the two most-recently-seen trains.

[Modelcar]

CShaveRR

Up on time this morning. All clocks in the house were changed last night, and we went to bed at the "new" time. Cell phone changed itself. I haven't changed my (railroad) wrist watch yet; that will be done after I compare it to standard time at work, via phone. I set it about three seconds fast; it will be within five seconds at least for the rest of the month.

 

Carl....Of course an accuracy of 5 sec. / month should be acceptable to almost any work, but does the railroads accept the new Atomic Clock controlled clocks and watches....?  They have an accuracy of a fraction of a sec. all the time.....