AgentKid [snip] It's getting so that the number of women who experienced the life of a Station Agent's wife in a CPR station on the Canadian prairie is getting fewer all the time. She even noted that herself once, after some CPR retiree's function several years ago. [snip]
Has a book or lengthy article or study, interview, etc. on that experience ever been written ?
Or, has a museum - either railroad, 'prairie', or pioneer, etc. - ever had a display or 'interpretation' of that ?
Just a thought, before all those 'primary sources' are lost to us.
- Paul.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRRI'm definitely the only guy up there who remembers hump engines that weren't SD38-2s
Lots of mules and traces....
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Paul_D_North_JrHas a book or lengthy article or study, interview, etc. on that experience ever been written ? Or, has a museum - either railroad, 'prairie', or pioneer, etc. - ever had a display or 'interpretation' of that ?
Paul, to answer your first question, of what has been written so far, the one chapter "Working and Living in the Depot" in "Canadian Pacific's Western Depots" by Charles W. Bohi and Leslie S. Kozma published in 1993 is about the best I've read.
As for museums, we lost a good one about ten or so years ago. The Alberta Prairie Railway out of Stettler, AB ran tourist trains up past Donalda to Meeting Creek. Amazingly the ex CN/Canadian Northern station at Meeting Creek had survived intact and was open as a Museum. You went in from the track side through the waiting room, the office, and into the kitchen/dinning area. The living room was roped off but it was fully furnished and there was a second rope at the top of the stairs so you could see into a couple of the bedrooms. When you came through the office into the kitchen I thought that was so cool.
Both the Grand Trunk Pacific, and Canadian Northern stations had kitchens built onto the backs of the stations, without basements. When cooking was still done with coal stoves, heating the kitchen would not be a problem in the winter, but they must have been cold when electric stoves became common. They had basements under the main structure with a furnace down there. The CPR stations had the kitchen built in as part of the structure with a full basement.
I didn't know this tour was going on, as I was on the tour through a still open grain elevator. I hadn't been in one since 1964 and I couldn't believe how much I still remembered what they were like in 1995. What was cool there was, you could see marks on the rafters in the unloading area made by the tops of semi trailer grain boxes, and then the tour guide showed us how the unloading platform tipped to unload horse drawn grain wagons. Except in terms of volume throughput there are a lot of people who maintain those wooden elevators worked better than anything built since.
As I mentioned before, about a decade ago the Central Western Railway which owned the line pulled it up for lack of business, and the Alberta Prairie couldn't afford to go it alone. That no one was able to step forward and save that line is a tragedy as that little town should have been a mandatory destination for all Alberta schoolchildren.
I had thought at one point I should be writing a book about all this, but getting everything organized and getting my Mom's memories down just hasn't worked out. She is a very stream of consciousness type of person, as am I, and getting her to sit down to tell her story into a tape recorder would be very difficult.
Getting back to the present, Mookie's comment about the Mules and traces was hilarious. I just had a quick chance to read that while I was having breakfast. I was thinking though, Carl did you have to learn how to fill and maintain kerosene lanterns in case those new fangled electric lanterns conked out, when you first started out on the road.
I guess that is all for now.
Bruce
Oh, by the way, for those of you with a sci-fi bent, Donalda is the hometown of Tricia Helfer, who played "Number Six" on "Battlestar Galactica"
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
CShaveRRNone of that was mine to maintain, though (and I wish I had been able to obtain one of those switch lamps, with yellow [reverse] and lunar white [normal] lenses!).
Carl, I wish I had been able to take my brother's offer of TWO marker lamps when I visited him in Birmingham in the spring of '78. However, getting them here from there would have been difficult--packaging and finding a carrier willing; I was traveling by rail, and I do not think they would have been accepted as checked baggage. I did ship, via the Postal Service, two bookends fashioned from mainline rail. My brother worked for US Steel, and he was able to pick odds and ends up.
I wish you all a wonderful Thanksgiving: give thanks for the blessings that we have in our country, and pray that none will be taken from us.
Johnny
There seems to be about three threads on the go wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving, so I will say it again here:
Happy American Thanksgiving to all U.S. forum members and all Americans both at home and serving overseas.
I checked the ATCS monitor for Deshler a little while ago and it seemed awfully quiet. No significant rails in the immediate area of son's house, so nothing to look for here.
Missed all the Black Friday activities, sitting in hospital with granddaughter. She's fine now, or at least back up to normal.
Not looking forward to the drive home on Sunday. Wednesday was bad enough. At least I won't have the usual weekday traffic to deal with, in addition to the holiday mess.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
CShaveRRWhen I hired out, there were seven sets of hump power, but no more than three in use at any one time. ..........The SD38-2s came in early 1975. They were originally used in pairs, but during the 1980s one was found to be enough.
Thanks, Carl.
CShaveRRI never saw a brakeman give a signal with a kerosene lamp.
Very interesting. I see from your footer or what ever it is called that you started around 1970 or so, and yet by the time we left Irricana in 1965 I had yet to see an electric brakeman's lantern. Some things change real quickly on the railroad and some things linger for years.
I had a very interesting 15 minutes of rail fanning Wednesday morning. I was riding with someone else and we had to go to a part of Calgary I hadn't been to in a long time. First I saw a doublestack train with a GE DPU in the middle coming in from the west really moving through the old Industrial Yard site along 9 Ave. S.E. He must have been using every bit of his allowed 25 MPH as we were pacing him pretty good. I don't know why he would still be moving that fast as he switched from being paid by the mile to being paid by the hour a couple of miles back. Or to use an expression my Dad always liked. they had already "put their hands into the company's pocket's". I guess he was late for a breakfast appointment! We stayed with him until we turned south and went under the tracks at 12 St. S.E. down in Inglewood.
Then a few minutes later down at 30 Ave. and Highfield Road S.E. I saw a archeological dig/construction project at the railway crossing there. I couldn't tell if they were just replacing the crossing or reactivating a long disused line. They had a length of panel track, I think it is called, beside the road ready to be moved, but I also saw rails and ties coming out from under the fill under the asphalt on 30 Ave. If the panel track is for a second line at that crossing they are going to have to add a lot of fill before they could bring the railhead up to the level of the road. I had no idea those rails were there or where they once led to. The crossing that is there is on the CPR Macleod Sub. I wish we had more Calgary forum members who might know what is going on down there.
I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.
Bruce - just a comment on your panel track. They used some panel track here for an emergency "fix" until they could go back and lay the "normal" rail. There were quite a few weeks/months in between both operations.
And since you are from Canada and this was really a footnote to Brother Carl - we saw the unpatched Illinois Central #1000 engine go through here this afternoon (coming into the yards behind a CN motor). We can go for months and never see foreign power and today we saw - CN, IC, KCS and 2 NS. Quite a nice day, both weather and watching wise.
Mook
It will "date" me, but so be it....Trivia: Carl, I have seen signals given by brakemen with the old traditional Kerosene lamps.....Back in the 30's and 40's for sure...on the B&O in our home area of Pennsylvania. I have a Big 4 lantern on display in the restored C&O station {now The Trail Head} where you, Pat and I visited several Summers ago here in Muncie....
Quentin
MookieThere were quite a few weeks/months in between both operations.
Well then, maybe that means they will have time to finish the job before I'm back down that way again in a few months/years.
I just realized that for people not familiar with the layout of the CPR's operation in Calgary, the second paragraph of my post of 12:06 today might not make sense.
When I first saw the train the crew had only about a mile and a half to go to the end of their trip at Alyth. And they were still moving pretty quick when I last saw them with less than a mile to go.
Maybe they planned to soak it in front of the Yard Office and let the next crew sort it out.
It did seem odd.
I was on the platform in Utica last weekend when the eastbound Lakeshore came in. I didn't think it would stop in time given the speed of the locos as they passed me, but it did, right on the mark, to the pronounced smell of brakes.
On the road again Sunday - hopefully not to a repeat of Wednesday's traffic.
Carl, I'm glad you made the trip safely, despite the backup. Was it actually the firecrews, or the rubberneckers who delayed the westbound traffic?
Our last serious delay came a few months ago when I took Ricki up to a doctor's office which she had visited often in the past, sticking to streets as she traveled. I took the faster way, using I-215 for the long northbound leg. Not far after we entered I-215, we were delayed by a wreck that, as well as we could tell, was caused by some idiot who had been sending a text message, and were late for the appointment (there is usually a long wait in this doctor's office after the appointed time has arrived, so we were not hurt by our delay).
CShaveRRLarry, the traffic Sunday night was unbelievable.
My trip back actually took nearly an hour less than the trip south. The Beltway around Baltimore was clear running, and I breezed through Harrisburg just fine, although the section where I81 and I78 run together was showing some congestion going the other way.
The only place I encountered anything resembling a real slowdown was in Binghampton, where a truck towing an old fire truck on a trailer was at the side of the road, accompanied by a patrol car. It appeared that the fire truck had broken it's tie down (probably due to hard braking) and had run into the back of the towing pickup. After that it was clear sailing the rest of the way home.
The biggest problem going south on Wednesday was all the folks (including truckers) trying to get home for the holiday, on top of those travelling from here to there. Sunday it was mostly people returning from their Thanksgiving visits.
And I'm doing it all again Christmas weekend.
Had to come back to this one.
While we normally switch over to battery lanterns for "real" railroading, most of us who are working our Polar Express trains as "cast" as well as crew carry kerosene lanterns (normally fueled with modern lamp oil), so it's not inconceivable that we could pass a signal using one of them.
I'm using an Adlake lantern I bought new a couple of years ago. They still make them.
Now that we're getting into winter weather, I'll point out that the kerosene lanterns are much better for warming your hands over, than the battery ones !
- Paul North.
CShaveRR [snip] Retarder was repaired (though another one malfunctioned on me today), and the windows have all been replaced, The new windows were pretty much what we ordered/envisioned, but--as is usually the case--there were things not taken into consideration, such as larger frame size reducing the glass area (some things aren't as readily visible from my usual position at the board). We had a wind that I would have felt with the older windows today. Not with these, though--so they've already demonstrated their worth. Lots of cleanup, paint-up, and fix-up ahead; I expect things will look better when I return to work Saturday. [snip]
Carl, glad you're back and had a good Thanksgiving - truly 'over the rivers and through the woods', eh ?
Are your retarders all up and running normally again ? I took at look at NS' Allentown Yard, and it's just a baby next to your set-up - only 1 tower, 1 master, and 4 group retarders, each leading to between 5 and 8 tracks- about 23 total, if I'm counting right. But ours is a lot more accessible to fans - I can stand on the (very narrow) shoulder of River Road and be only about 70 feet from the hump lead, cut-off point, and the master, and maybe 100 feet from the group retarders. If you ever get out this way, I'd be glad to take you by there - a good dose of all the screeching noise you'd ever want ! Actually, about 0.8 mile to the southwest - along the far end of the bowl or body tracks of the yard - a huge complex of like 200 apartment units is in the last stages of construction. But their walls are being built with Insulated Concrete Forms = ICFs which are basically 6'' of concrete with 2-1/2'' of styrofoam on each side, so the noise may not be too bad inside.
Thanks again for the detailed explanations of your operation.
DeggestyCarl, I'm glad you made the trip safely, despite the backup. Was it actually the firecrews, or the rubberneckers who delayed the westbound traffic?
tree68While we normally switch over to battery lanterns for "real" railroading, most of us who are working our Polar Express trains as "cast" as well as crew carry kerosene lanterns (normally fueled with modern lamp oil), so it's not inconceivable that we could pass a signal using one of them. I'm using an Adlake lantern I bought new a couple of years ago. They still make them
I'm using an Adlake lantern I bought new a couple of years ago. They still make them
Larry, I'm glad you get to do this. I hope at least some of the kids get into a discussion with their parents about how a lot of North American's were still getting their light at night from kerosene less than a hundred years ago. I personally have one memory yet, of going to sleep at my grandparents farmhouse and seeing the living room lit with what they used to call a coal-oil lamp. They moved off of that farm to a house with electricity in 1958.
Even at Irricana from 1956 to 1965, electricity was still not reliably delivered all the time and we had two lamps within easy reach. They were always referred to as coal-oil lamps though.
I mention this because because a couple of years ago on another forum there was a hilarious series of post's (although the poster's though they were being serious) regarding a fellow who had been given a globe railroad lantern and his attempts to light it. One of the first posters advised him to try to do this outside, and as subsequent post's revealed, they were right!
This went on over the course of a weekend, and it came out that there were two types (grades?) of kerosene. This lamp which was for outdoor use and had a notation on it recommending use of a heavy grade of kerosene. It was reported that there used to be a type of kerosene that had additives in it that would prevent sloshing around when a lamp was used outside in a rigorous manner, and another lighter type of kerosene for lamp's that sat on a table inside. I don't know how coal-oil fits into this equation. Adlake lamps were mentioned in that discussion too, and I did take a look at their website.
One more story. I remember once we had a power outage and there was a train expected later in the day. My Dad went into the freight shed and came back out with two globe lanterns; one red, and one white and a red flag. There was a space on his desk that never seemed to be used, and those two lanterns fit there just fine! He said he had to do this in the event the superintendent were to make a surprise visit, and he was supposed to have those things ready. As it turned out the power came back on not ten minutes later. I have no memory of him personally using a lantern on the job although he did do it a lot at Hatton, SK, on the mainline, when I was just a baby.
Oh, well.
AgentKidI hope at least some of the kids get into a discussion with their parents about how a lot of North American's were still getting their light at night from kerosene less than a hundred years ago.
It's amazing how many of the kids are surprised to find out that there's a real flame inside the lantern, and that it is hot.
I don't always get a chance to engage on the PE trips, but when I do, I'll tell them how the lantern was used. Even the adults are sometimes surprised.
In this day of IPods and do-it-all cell phones, the idea that somebody used a flame from a lantern to do their work is rather foreign to a large part of the audience.
On another note - it's amazing to see the difference in reaction from the passengers when you are carrying the lantern, or not. Night and day.
tree68 [snip] On another note - it's amazing to see the difference in reaction from the passengers when you are carrying the lantern, or not. Night and day.
In exactly what way, Larry ? More respect for the authenticity/ genuineness or being more 'in character' ? It's really a 'prop' or part of the uniform - same as a hose or axe for a fireman, a briefcase for a businessman, the mailbag for a mailman, etc. For a large part of what I do at work the suit and tie are part of the uniform - we get taken more seriously because of that alone, even if the person is the same in a T-shirt and jeans . . .
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