Trains.com

Trackside Lounge: Sep.-Dec. 2009 Edition

20520 views
324 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, October 17, 2009 8:42 PM
Not a good week for our first perishable train/pair. The first Delfar train was completely annulled, so what ran east of Green River was exclusively from Wallula. And that train got blocked by a derailment on the triple-track today, losing at least twelve hours. It was on the move again, last time I checked, but probably won't get here until tomorrow p.m. at the earliest. (Anywhere between North Platte and Gibbon is probably the worst place imaginable for UP to have a derailmenr--this was a coal train, so cleanup was probably time-consuming, especially if they were making their maximum speed.)

On a brighter note, someone's photo of the perishable train in Wyoming is one of the selections for UP's 2010 calendar.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:32 PM

CShaveRR
On a brighter note, someone's photo of the perishable train in Wyoming is one of the selections for UP's 2010 calendar.

Cool, who?  Smile,Wink, & Grin

Question for the rails...do all EOTs/FREDs 'flash'?  Lately it seems about every other (or so) train on CN at night I can see the device/hear it, but can't see the flash.  Yes...my eyes are open, but why wouldn't one flash?  I would think that's some kind of rules issue.

Back to the grindstone...for now!

Dan

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:27 PM
Some guy named Harry R. Bruestle. It's a nice shot, but may have been Photoshopped to get rid of the graffiti (or maybe the angle lessened its impact).

Dan, I'm sure the EOTs are supposed to flash, but the rule doesn't specify that. It just states when the marker should be lit (darkness or bad visibility). If your markers are glowing steadily, that may not be construed as a violation. If they're dark, it probably is a violation, unless CN is having a 50-percent en-route failure rate. If your train has a DP unit at the rear, a dim headlight can replace the EOT.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:10 PM

CShaveRR

Dan, I'm sure the EOTs are supposed to flash, but the rule doesn't specify that. It just states when the marker should be lit (darkness or bad visibility). If your markers are glowing steadily, that may not be construed as a violation. If they're dark, it probably is a violation, unless CN is having a 50-percent en-route failure rate. If your train has a DP unit at the rear, a dim headlight can replace the EOT.

That's what I thought.  There was no DPU and no steady glow...and it was definately dark.  The auto-headlight feature on my truck was triggered by the darkness (8:00 PM and later).  I hope nothing bad happens to one of these trains.

On a slightly happier note: a friend of mine who is an Conductor at CPR was called back and reports in a couple days.  He's glad to be going back.  IIRC he was near the bottom of the list to be called so hopefully that's a good sign of traffic.  Personally, I'm keeping my eyes peeled on two websites with a resume waiting....

Dan

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Southeast Missouri
  • 573 posts
Posted by The Butler on Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:43 AM

Question Can a railroad run trains on a line listed as o/s any time it wants? Question

James


  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:50 AM

The Butler

Question Can a railroad run trains on a line listed as o/s any time it wants? Question

A railroad can run trains on any line it owns any time it wants.  Subject to any restrictions like slow orders, etc., and normal operating practices (warrants, Form D's, etc).

We occasionally take a perfectly good stretch of track out of service so we can effectively locally dispatch it - usually in cases where we both need to be on the same track in a relatively short period which would make working with the dispatcher a hindrance.  The employee who's name is on the OOS can grant verbal permission to occupy.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Southeast Missouri
  • 573 posts
Posted by The Butler on Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:20 AM

tree68

The Butler

Question Can a railroad run trains on a line listed as o/s any time it wants? Question

A railroad can run trains on any line it owns any time it wants.  Subject to any restrictions like slow orders, etc., and normal operating practices (warrants, Form D's, etc).

We occasionally take a perfectly good stretch of track out of service so we can effectively locally dispatch it - usually in cases where we both need to be on the same track in a relatively short period which would make working with the dispatcher a hindrance.  The employee who's name is on the OOS can grant verbal permission to occupy.

Ok, I'm confused.  So, what you describe lets a local employee become a dispatcher for a section of track so more trains can use that section or travel closer to each other than would be possible while using the normal dispatcher x number of miles away?   

James


  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:09 PM

It's an exception, not the norm, and isn't really intended to let trains run closer to each other as such.

Our local trips normally use a run-around track at the distant (south) end of the trip to move the loco to the other end of the consist.  Under normal circumstances, we have authority to a point beyond said siding, since no one else is going to use the track.  We get a "both directions" Form D from the dispatcher (in Scranton) for that.  It's a regular occurance - we usually run two round trips under the same form.

On occasion, another train will come north on a trip to a local restaurant some miles south of the above siding.  After dropping their passengers at the trackside restaurant, they then run up to the same siding and run their locomotive around their consist for the return trip south.

Rather than issue both of us one-way Form D's as well as coordinate who gets the siding first, one of us will get the block including the siding as "out-of-service."  If I get the Form D, it's my track and even my own engineer has to get my permission to enter it.

In the meantime, both trains get "both directions" Form D's to the block station just before the siding in their respective directions.

If we get there first, we do our thing.  Usually, by the time we finish the other train is waiting at the limit of their authority.  Once we clear, we can give them permission to enter our out-of-service.  If they happen to get there first, we can give them permission to enter and we'll hold out until they clear.

Bottom line - the DS issues three Form D's instead of five or six, and we don't spend as much time on the cell phone (very poor radio coverage there).

We also only do it because of the coincidental timing of our arrival.  If they were going to arrive at the siding between our regular trips, we'd simply cancel our Form D after the first trip, which would allow the DS to give them the track up to and including the siding.   Once they cleared and were again headed south, we'd go back to the DS and get another "both directions" for our second trip.

Sounds complicated, but it's not.

Creative dispatching at it's best.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:15 PM

Larry -

If you could enlighten us a little further on that: For such an 'Out of Service' track, what is the applicable maximum speed and stopping sight distance requirement, etc. 

I expect they are a whole lot more 'Restricted' than would otherwise be in effect, so that such an operation is really much safer than it may seem to the uninitiated.

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 22, 2009 4:24 PM

Actually, we ran at track speed where appropriate, especially on the way out.   It's really no different than if a track foreman has a track OOS that is otherwise hale and hearty.  Seems as though I've heard CSX foremen permit trains through their OOS area at speed, or at least at a speed above 'restricted'.

At no time did both trains occupy the same block at the same time.

Track speed in that block is 40 mph, although in both cases the trains would be slowing for a stop adjacent to the siding.  The timetable speed for our locals is 25 mph, with faster allowed for making up time.

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, October 24, 2009 3:57 PM
I found out today that I'll be having a student for the next week or so. That kind of puts a crimp on my style up there, but this guy seems OK (he laughs at my sarcastic remarks, anyway), and it's good for a few extra bucks.

The little episode down by the Chicago River has livened things up lately, both here on the Forum and on the railroad. This is the second day in a row that our "rules of the day" dealt with hand brakes and securing cars and engines. We also were informed that there is now a hand-operated derail at the north end of Canal Street Yard.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:06 PM

Certainly not making excuses for whoever was to blame for the incident, but if you do something enough times (regardless of what it is) it's all to easy to get complacent.  Doubly so if it's something that makes your job easier. 

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, October 26, 2009 5:36 PM
Just saw over on the Newswire that the Amtrak station at New Buffalo, Michigan, is shifting from the Pere Marquette (CSX) to the line served by all of the other Michigan trains (Amtrak's own line). This will give New Buffalo an extra stop in each direction, even though the service to Grand Rapids will be lost.

According to the Newswire:

Under the new operating plan, both eastbound trains from Chicago will stop in New Buffalo in the evening, while both westbounds will stop in the morning.

My question: what is limiting the service to stops at this time of day? Couldn't they gain a little business if they stopped an eastbound train in the morning, and a westbound in the evening, giving Chicagoans the better part of a day to go to the beach, or the casino, or whatever?

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:09 AM

CShaveRR
The little episode down by the Chicago River has livened things up lately, both here on the Forum and on the railroad. This is the second day in a row that our "rules of the day" dealt with hand brakes and securing cars and engines. We also were informed that there is now a hand-operated derail at the north end of Canal Street Yard.

Kind of a "Cows are gone, lock the barn door" thing, maybe?  If it helps to prevent that kind of thing again...good. 

Dan

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:48 AM

notice how that doesn't seem quite as newsworthy as the "whoops, we missed the twin cities landing"? 

Guess people are getting too poor to pay attention any more.

Blindfold

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:57 AM

I'd bet that if a loaded train had run 150 miles past it's mark at speed it'd be in the news, though, especially if it was Amtrak or contained a bunch of hazmat...

They'd have had cops out shooting at the emergency fuel cut-off (and hitting the fuel filler instead....

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:11 AM
But think about how many people in how many different locations would have to be incapacitated for something like that to happen. Oh, yeah, it'd be on the news, all right!

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:12 AM

CNW 6000

CShaveRR
The little episode down by the Chicago River has livened things up lately, both here on the Forum and on the railroad. This is the second day in a row that our "rules of the day" dealt with hand brakes and securing cars and engines. We also were informed that there is now a hand-operated derail at the north end of Canal Street Yard.

Kind of a "Cows are gone, lock the barn door" thing, maybe?  If it helps to prevent that kind of thing again...good. 

Others have written here many times before that all of the rules in the book - and safety measures, too - are ''written in someone's blood''.  Fortunately, this incident didn't become that tragic, but it - and the 'subsequent corrective action' - illustrates that the principle still applies.

- PDN.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:09 PM
We've been hearing about the rough weather currently being enjoyed by CopCar Chris, Mudchicken, and company. Transportation is getting difficult, and I understand that UP is readying its rotary snowplow up in Cheyenne (which isn't much better off than Denver).

No snow here yet; we might make it through October without any, based on current forecasts. But it'll be here soon enough, and the railroad knows it. Today Proviso received and unloaded the first eight carloads of salt that will be used to keep open the roadways and parking areas of Global 2. Last year we went through several dozen carloads at 100 tons a crack.

We are supposed to get some serious rain and thunder starting tonight, though; we're under a flash-flood watch through tomorrow evening.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:59 PM

If you get a covered hopper full of Advil (or a 55 gallon drum even), send to me at North Yard. After shovelling out my house and the neighbor 4 times, new muscles and a sore back have been discovered.

The storm here is finally moving east. Up's transcon in western NE and North Platte are about to catch it. Moisture pushing north from the Pacific is the culprit. (What we call an "Albuquerque Low")

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:40 PM

Have had rain the entire day.  It has been a very dark day, but the rain has been nice.  We will go into winter with good ground moisture.  And a lot full of teeny-tiny locust leaves.  My rug at the back door changed colors from yellow to now brown.  Guess I might have to do a little sweeping - in a futile attempt to get them out of the house. 

No snow is good snow!  Thumbs Up

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, October 30, 2009 5:23 AM
Dark day here, too...oh, wait--the sun hasn't come up yet.

We get a few of those locust leaves in our front yard from the trees across the street. This rain we've been having is beating down the maple leaves, though, and our lawn is very yellow from same. Hope it dries out by the weekend so we can get some more leaves up (we have one maple that's still green!).

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Friday, October 30, 2009 1:11 PM

Mookie
No snow is good snow!  Thumbs Up

Snowblower is tuned, 4x4 is serviced, snow tires ready & waiting...bring it onSmile,Wink, & Grin

Dan

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Friday, October 30, 2009 2:57 PM

Dan - good to see you off the farm! 

Snowblower tuned up - but the gas is still just a figment in the Driver's mind.  Guess he enjoys walking 8 blocks one way to get some gas.  Did that in about a foot of snow a few years ago.  You would think that would have cured that problem! 

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Friday, October 30, 2009 3:40 PM

LOL you'd think so...

That game is so addicting.  It was the perfect distraction for all the midnight feedings with Aedan.  Something animated, yet quiet, and fun for him to watch.  He likes watching the stuff move and sometimes (during the day) I'll turn on the sound and he'll grove to the music.  You gotta plow more land lol...

CN sure is busy today.  533, 529, 346, and 447 all OS'ing around Neenah.  I am going back out to digitally steal their souls.  I figured that expression was safe around Halloween weekend.

Dan

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Sunday, November 1, 2009 7:24 AM

Hopefully I'll be at Anton Siding for a little this afternoon.  It's a long siding where many meets happen between Stevens Point and Neenah on the main from Canada to Chicago.  I need to see some widecab power.....

Dan

  • Member since
    August 2002
  • From: Along the BNSF "East End"... :-)
  • 915 posts
Posted by TimChgo9 on Sunday, November 1, 2009 11:28 AM

I am going to Oklahoma next week (11/9) to visit Ft. Sill, and watch my oldest son graduate from Basic Training, I'll be out there for a couple of days, and was wondering if there is any rail activity down that way.... Looking forward to getting some photographs from somewhere other than the Chicago area, and being west of the Mississippi for the first time in my life...and my first vacation if you will, in nearly 10 years. 

Does anyone recommend anything? 

My son did tell me that that there is a local that does some work on, or near Ft. Sill....

Oh, and greetings to everyone in the Lounge, (Chris, Carl, and everyone else..) I've been absent for awhile, so I thought I would poke my head in and say "hi".....  

"Chairman of the Awkward Squad" "We live in an amazing, amazing world that is just wasted on the biggest generation of spoiled idiots." Flashing red lights are a warning.....heed it. " I don't give a hoot about what people have to say, I'm laughing as I'm analyzed" What if the "hokey pokey" is what it's all about?? View photos at: http://www.eyefetch.com/profile.aspx?user=timChgo9
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, November 1, 2009 3:21 PM
Hi back to you, Tim! We went through Oklahoma in 2007, but it was basically through, not to--and we didn't see much railroad activity (spent a night in OKC, otherwise stayed on the Interstates except for food and quilt shops).

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, November 1, 2009 5:14 PM
Just saw on the news that a CP train has derailed on UP trackage near Glenview or Northbrook, Illinois. Mostly DME grain cars, some of which fell down to streets below. No cause yet; there are rumors that a second train was somehow involved. This will tie up UP's double-track route north to Milwaukee from Proviso. CP has the capability of getting around the wreck on Metra trackage.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Reedsburg WI (near Wisconsin Dells)
  • 3,370 posts
Posted by Noah Hofrichter on Sunday, November 1, 2009 6:05 PM

 WGN has some really good "Raw" fly-by video of the accident, along with a story:

http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-freight-train-derailment-nov1,0,6102117.story

Looks to be quite a mess!

Based upon the plethora of DME hoppers and the fact that it's supposed to be a CP train, I wonder if this was CP train 486 or 487 that runs to and from the DME at Winona? Just speculation on my part, as no engines can be seen in the footage (at least not that I saw).

Noah

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy