Saluda Grade to reopen?

[pretcho]

I went by the crossing right as the NS Police were finishing packing up around 12:15pm. I asked what was going on, and he told me they were increasing the speed on the line (up to 50mph). I didn't get to ask whether they were opening the line back up to Asheville or think to get a flyer. They were in their unmarked vehicles (with blue lights) leaving. After, I went to Campobello before going home and saw a NS highrailer working on the tracks in.

[rocket2go]

I was the one that was there, in person, talking to the NS folks and posted the blog.   NS police SUV with blue lights flashing and other safety personnel were on both sides of the crossing.  At first I thought it was a license check.  The flyer was actually the standard tri fold Operation Life Saver pamphlet titled Key Safety Tips at Highway - Rail Grade Crossings.   The men were direct in their instructions about the increase in train speeds at that crossing and were warning motorists of this fact.   That was it.   Whether they continue these instructions at grade crossings west of there and all the way to Landrum remains to be seen.  From what I heard, it appears the increased speeds are immanent.  One speculation I have is that work trains may be on the way soon to Landrum and beyond.  Of course, I'll believe it when I see it or NS issues an official statement.     

[Scum Mudd]

I drove down toward Inman this morning to see if anything was going on.  Didn't see anything. But I have no reason to believe what was reported was not true. 

My son talked to a NS worker who came into his car shop a few days ago. He talked up the Saluda Grade to him, probing for info, because his dad is a train nerd. His statement was while closed to rail traffic, the line has never, in his opinion, been closed. He says workers are on it all the time. I know there is lots to do to get it running full bore again. But I believe it's going to happen.

[samfp1943]

Scum Mudd

I drove down toward Inman this morning to see if anything was going on.  Didn't see anything. But I have no reason to believe what was reported was not true. 

My son talked to a NS worker who came into his car shop a few days ago. He talked up the Saluda Grade to him, probing for info, because his dad is a train nerd. His statement was while closed to rail traffic, the line has never, in his opinion, been closed. He says workers are on it all the time. I know there is lots to do to get it running full bore again. But I believe it's going to happen.

Curiouser! &  Curiouser! 

Sure seems like Saluda Grade, and The  W Line are still on the Rail Banked Radar Screen at NS's HQ.....

Will be very interesting to continue to follow and see what happens....

[dubch87]

rocket2go

I was the one that was there, in person, talking to the NS folks and posted the blog.   NS police SUV with blue lights flashing and other safety personnel were on both sides of the crossing.  At first I thought it was a license check.  The flyer was actually the standard tri fold Operation Life Saver pamphlet titled Key Safety Tips at Highway - Rail Grade Crossings.   The men were direct in their instructions about the increase in train speeds at that crossing and were warning motorists of this fact.   That was it.   Whether they continue these instructions at grade crossings west of there and all the way to Landrum remains to be seen.  From what I heard, it appears the increased speeds are immanent.  One speculation I have is that work trains may be on the way soon to Landrum and beyond.  Of course, I'll believe it when I see it or NS issues an official statement.     

I don't want anyone to think I'm accusing them of lying. With all the rumors that have been going around over the past eleven years, you have to understand my pessimism and doubt about the line reopening.

Keep us posted!

[JohnJ]

I definately understand that you are doubtful about the line reopening. I an too, but it just seems like there has been a lot work done on both sides of the line for the amount of traffic they see...

[JohnJ]

I have a question: If the speculation is true and the grade is eventually opened back up, the bridge over Tuxedo Lake, it is old. It has not seen a train in over a decade and probably hasnt received any major maintenance in that time either. I havent seen the bridge in 15 years or so, so i cannot comment on it's current condition, but can anyone who has been to the bridge recently comment on its condition?

[dubch87]

JohnJ

I have a question: If the speculation is true and the grade is eventually opened back up, the bridge over Tuxedo Lake, it is old. It has not seen a train in over a decade and probably hasnt received any major maintenance in that time either. I havent seen the bridge in 15 years or so, so i cannot comment on it's current condition, but can anyone who has been to the bridge recently comment on its condition?

This topic from another forum has some commentary and recent pictures of the bridge.

Here is a picture of the NS track geometry train east of Spartanburg on the W-Line on Feb. 25, 2013.

[JohnJ]

Well the bridge needs work, thats for sure, but its nothing that cant be fixed. Also, what exactly does the geometry train do anyway?

[beechdriver]

My Dad lives in Campobello (has for about 20 years) and is currently in hospital in Columbus, NC. I have been making trips every other weekend to stay at his house and visit him in the hospital since the end of January. Columbus, NC is a couple of miles from Tryon where it all starts.

So far there has been no sign of any activity that I can see from Campobello to Saluda. The tracks are still disconnected and blocked with a big mound of dirt in Landrum. All the street crossings have covers on their lights and the wooden crossbars have been removed at all the crossings.The ties are in atrocious state and many (lots) of them will need to replaced before trains run again.

Two weeks ago I went to Melrose and saw no sign of activity. Today I went to Melrose and walked down grade to the point where the double tracks become a single line , and then walked about another mile hoping to find the washout. The propane tanks down there have not been touched (I have pics if anyone wants to see). What I did see is that trees that have fallen across the tracks have been cut and removed. The safety track at Melrose has not been touched and is completely overgrown. The mainline itself is completely free of overgrowth so they must still be spraying herbicides (or they used agent orange many years ago /sarc).

Then I drove up to Saluda via Pearson's Falls Rd and stopped jut below the peak of the grade and walked down the track to the point where the double track becomes single. I did not see any survey markers that someone else mentioned. There was a new pine tree down that had cut and removed from the tracks. It was recent because the needles were still green.

The Physical Trainer lady working with my dad lives in Tryon. She says the rumors in town are that the line is going to re-open. She also says she has pics of a truck some drunk drove down the track to the washout and almost killed himself. Anyone else seen them?

[Modelcar]

.....Pictures of the truck on the track at the washout....Yes.

But they do not belong to me...I do have them in "my pictures" here on the computer, but I don't think I should show them since they are not mine...

Perhaps the photographer will see your question, and may comment.  They are very good clear, explicit photos of what the alleged inebrated driver got into...He's lucky he is alive.....

[JohnJ]

Yes iv seen the pictures, he is very lucky.

[JohnJ]

Has anyone heard anything else about the speeds increasing? What exactly is the purpose of this, since the trains only go a short distance beyond. I suppose they could just be highballing locals for fun, but i seriously doubt that.

[samfp1943]

JohnJ

"...Well the bridge needs work, thats for sure, but its nothing that cant be fixed. Also, what exactly does the geometry train do anyway?.."

Briefly:JohnJ:

Not to change the course of this Topic and Thread. Only to answer your question posed in it ( and since the presence of the NS Track Geometry Car/Train has been covered here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_geometry  Admittedly, This Wikipedia Link seems to be a rational explanation for what comprises Track Geometry and why it is studied:

  [FtL:]Track geometry is three-dimensional geometry of track layouts and associated measurements used in design, construction and maintenance of railroad tracks. The subject is used in the context of standard, speed limits and other regulations in the areas of track gauge, alignment, elevation, curvature and track surface.^[1] Although, the geometry of the tracks is three-dimensional by nature, the standards are usually expressed in two separate layouts for horizontal and vertical.

If anyone wants to discuss this topic -Track Geometry-further maybe they can start a seperate Thread on this topic, leaving the Saluda Grade for its own discussion and information?

[JohnJ]

Thanks, I was just curious.

[dubch87]

Well, I finally found something "published" about the speed increase on the website of Chapman High School in Inman. 

!WARNING! Train Speed Increase

Published: Thursday, March 14, 2013

Northfork Southern Railroad informed District One Schools today that the railroad line coming out of Spartanburg through Inman, Campobello and up to Landrum will have a speed limit increase. The Federal Government has allowed Northfork Southern to increase the speed limit through the train crossings in District One from 10 mph to 50 mph.

 

Please excercise extreme caution when approaching railroad crossings.

[Deggesty]

Where is this Northfork that has a railroad running south from it?

Oh, well, what can you expect from the products of the current school system?

[dubch87]

I think it's time to summarize. Please correct any mistakes or add anything missed.

        

• Norfolk Southern ceased operations over the Saluda Grade in December 2001. NS has repeatedly stated they are not abandoning the line and will reopen the line should future conditions warrant the need.
• There are several suggested reasons as to why Norfolk Southern closed the line, including a change in coal traffic routes, overall lack of service, high operating costs, needed maintenance, and safety.
• After more than eleven years, Norfolk Southern has never filed for abandonment for the section of the W-Line between MP 26.x and MP 46. The section is inactive/closed/"mothballed" and was physically disconnected from the active sections of the line in 2003. This was so NS did not have to keep the line maintained to FRA standards (cost savings).
• Norfolk Southern has denied encroachment on their ROW, most recently in Tryon for a highway intersection reconfiguration, again stating the line may see service in the future.
• Norfolk Southern has never stopped maintaining the ROW. This includes clearing fallen trees, applying herbicides to vegetation encroaching on the ROW, and maintaining the roadbed to some extent. NS hi-railers have been spotted along the line inspecting the ROW.
• Even though no trains use the line, the grade crossings still require maintenance from Norfolk Southern and/or DOT due to deterioration from vehicles crossing.
• There are three known wash-outs along the line. One southeast of Tryon on a fill, another west of Tryon in horseshoe curve, and a significant washout about a mile east of Melrose.
• In addition to repairing the washouts, major tie replacement will have to be conducted before operations can resume. One of the believed reasons for NS deactivating the line was due to the cost of needed maintenance and lack of service on the route (low cost/benefit). The signal system will also have to be repaired.
• Contrary to rumors, no major repairs or capital improvements have been made on the inactive section.
• Norfolk Southern research/track geometry trains have been spotted several times in recent years on both sides of the inactive section.
• In early 2012, Norfolk Southern completed roadbed maintenance, tie replacement, and grade crossing improvements on the W-Line from Hayne Yard in Spartanburg to MP 46 in Landrum. Reports in March 2013 indicate Norfolk Southern will be increasing train speeds along this section to 50 mph.
• NS completed the same type of work on the W-Line from Biltmore Yard in Asheville to the Duke Energy coal power plant spur in Arden in early 2012. To my knowledge, they have not completed any work to MP 26.x. This section will need maintenance before regular operations can resume.
• The Norfolk Southern Exhibit Car was on display in Landrum on December 6, 2012. An e-mail from NS prior to the visit stated the Exhibit Car would be located in front of the Landrum Depot, which is on the inactive section. However, the line was never reconnected, and the Exhibit Car was displayed at a grade crossing south of Landrum.
• An inland port/intermodal facility is under construction in Greer on the Atlanta-Washington main line, and is expected to be completed in September 2013. This facility will have an overnight intermodal service to the Port of Charleston. It is hypothesized that with the construction of this new facility, recent track geometry inspections, extensive roadbed maintenance, and the proposed speed increase, the W-Line will be reopened, providing Norfolk Southern a more direct link to the midwest for intermodal service to and from the Port of Charleston. However, there has been no indication from Norfolk Southern of this, and no work has taken place on the inactive section or on the active section between Arden and Zirconia.

[dubch87]

Deggesty

Where is this Northfork that has a railroad running south from it?

Oh, well, what can you expect from the products of the current school system?

I was wondering the same.

The mentioning of the federal government approval in that release also has me wondering. Does Norfolk Southern require FRA approval for this train speed increase? If so, do they have to provide to the FRA why the speed increase is needed? As everyone has stated, no one can figure out the need for 50 mph on what is essentially a spur line.

[JohnJ]

Why would the W line south of the power plant need maintenance? It sees regular traffic, one train every day.

[eagle1030]

dubch87

Well, I finally found something "published" about the speed increase on the website of Chapman High School in Inman. 

!WARNING! Train Speed Increase

Published: Thursday, March 14, 2013

Northfork Southern Railroad informed District One Schools today that the railroad line coming out of Spartanburg through Inman, Campobello and up to Landrum will have a speed limit increase. The Federal Government has allowed Northfork Southern to increase the speed limit through the train crossings in District One from 10 mph to 50 mph.

 

Please excercise extreme caution when approaching railroad crossings.

*Norfolk

*exercise

I don't know whether to laugh or cry considering this is from a school.

[dubch87]

JohnJ

Why would the W line south of the power plant need maintenance? It sees regular traffic, one train every day.

To my knowledge, NS has not conducted any roadbed maintenance through there. Those ties are in just as bad of condition as the others that have been replaced on other sections of the W-Line.

What I'm not sure about is why NS did this work all the way to Landrum. Someone stated that Capps' Brothers stopped shipping wood chips by rail a few years ago. If that is the case, then the last stop for a local would be 10+ miles south in Inman. As you can see in this screenshot from Google Street View acquired in May 2012, they went all the way to the cut in Landrum (visible on the left). All of the grade crossings between Landrum and Hayne Yard have been upgraded with rubber flangeway filler and fresh asphalt, in addition to the tie replacement and fresh ballast.

The same type of work was conducted at the same time north of the power plant in Arden. Old ties are stacked on the right.

South of the power plant, nothing was done (aside from the old wooden flangeway being replaced with asphalt well before this imagery was acquired).

So, if the W-Line is being reopened, you would think NS would have done this work all the way to the cut in Zirconia. And why would they not do the maintenance for the local that still runs south of the power plant, yet do the maintenance on a ten mile section of track that sees zero trains?

eagle1030

*Norfolk

*exercise

I don't know whether to laugh or cry considering this is from a school.

Both!

[JohnJ]

They have done work on a couple of crossings south of the power plant in recent years, Old cane creek road is Fletcher and downtown Hendersonville come to mind.

[Modelcar]

Good photographs.  I wonder....in the center photograph, and looking below the building with the red roof....and to the right of the street crossing edge about 6 ft. or so....is it just an error in the photo, or do I see the joining of two different "weight" of rails...?

Edit:  A few mintues later...I zoomed in and decided it is a flaw in the photograph...Sorry.  You can see a vertical line in the photo at that location...

[dubch87]

JohnJ

They have done work on a couple of crossings south of the power plant in recent years, Old cane creek road is Fletcher and downtown Hendersonville come to mind.

Yes, I've seen those as well. That was to smooth the ride for vehicles crossing, though. Even the crossings on the inactive section have seen some work, as the wooden flangeway fillers (if I'm even calling them by their correct name) were in terrible condition and making for quit a bump crossing the tracks. What I am trying to emphasize with the work south of Landrum is that they did this work to every single crossing, even private crossings on dirt roads. Click here for an example. It seems like a lot of work and cost to NS for a line that sees little service, but maybe this is just standard practice. The line is active, after all, regardless of the amount of traffic.

Modelcar

.....Pictures of the truck on the track at the washout....Yes.

But they do not belong to me...I do have them in "my pictures" here on the computer, but I don't think I should show them since they are not mine...

Perhaps the photographer will see your question, and may comment.  They are very good clear, explicit photos of what the alleged inebrated driver got into...He's lucky he is alive.....

I did not take those pictures of the truck either. I received them in a chain e-mail at the time, so many people have them. They were likely taken by someone with the fire department or sheriff's office, and news travels quickly in the digital age in a small town. So, feel free to share them with whomever.

[rocket2go]

I plan to report these gross errors to the Principal, or her Assistant, at Chapman High tomorrow. 

[rocket2go]

You are correct in all the subjects you mention in your summary.   As a side note, NS work crews were at Gramling, S.C., this AM working on crossing gates and control boxes.  No wood chip cars were seen at Capps Lumber, Landrum, S.C.   The last wood chip train I saw from there was in Dec. 2011.    

[csxns]

Does Capps lumber still make wood chips.

[dubch87]

csxns

Does Capps lumber still make wood chips.

Yes (click).

[csxns]

Thanks,where did the rail shipments go when they shiped that way and is the trucks hauling to the same place,Thanks.