Will UPS Keep RR's Going

[Anonymous]

Whats happened to all the piggybacks now all I see Is UPS JBHUNT
Snider And the Maersk/sealand stuff i used to see UP Pigs & Containers
And BNSF I remember The Old BN That showed A Picture Of A
Big city on there route Like Dallas Seattle Denver The picture would show the sky line of downtown with a BN train running thru it where are the old pigs at




RIP T&P MP WP MKT BN ATSF SP SSW D&RGW MILW AGC PRR NYC
C&NW GN GP CRIP CB&Q ICG GM&O SBD L&N EL NICKLE PLATE ROUTE
SLR C&IM CCP KCT FW&D C&S SOO ECT- ALL THE GOOD NAMES ARE GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN

[Anonymous]

Dear SLIC,
I am not sure what you mean by RRS, but if this stands for Railroad Service, then my answer to your question would be "why wouldn't they?"

-Daniel

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

UPS will stick to intermodal service for its long hauls. UPS prefers its over-the-road truck hauls to be operated as turns (driver returns to starting point at end of day) so the various railroads will get the business but UPS is a very demanding customer.

[csxns]

Some reason you ask a ups driver about their trailers on rail they will tell you they dont do rail.We know better .

[Anonymous]

Demanding is right - UPS got top-priority on the Erie Lackawanna routings I know
(and look what happened to them - some of the best hiking trails and ATV paths in
northern Indiana).

[DTomajko]

UPS is not the only intermodal customer,just the largest.Another unseen segment of UPS operations is the Logistics shipments.These are usually carried as truckloads in lease and rail-controlled trailers,only occassionally pulled on the road by UPS tractors.These trailer movements are commonly hauled by subcontractor or owner-operator trucks and actually comprise the larger percentage of UPS rail shipments.If you shop at Wal-Mart,Kohl's,Toys-R-Us,***'s Sporting Goods or drink Rolling Rock ,(to name a few),odds are very good it came off the rail in a container or trailer.In Pittsburgh,we take great pride in trying to keep all of our customers happy,as well as UPS.In the month of October,we did 7000 lifts,(on or off the train),which was a new monthly record since PIT opened,(1995).Believe me,UPS carries a lot of weight on the rail,but so do Hunt,Schneider,USPS,Mearsk,et al.,but they all have influence off the rail too.All forecasts I've seen claim that intermodal will do nothing but grow in the future and I'm glad to be contributing to that growth.Good luck and stay safe.

[JoeKoh]

ups is very important to us people are paying$$$$$ to have their stuff shipped to them ups.
stay safe
Joe

[Trainnut484]

When the ATSF was around, UPS train reporting numbers were 199 for westbound, and 991 for eastbounds. 1 stood for Chicago. The first 9 stood for the priority with 9 being the highest, and the second 9 stood for the destination, which was LA or SFO. I can't remember off the top of my head on the last one. WOE to the dispatcher who slowed those trains down.

Take care,

Russell

[corwinda]

Union pacific seems to be using mostly EMP containers rather then ones marked for UP.

[DTomajko]

EMP was originally formed by UP,Conrail, and NS, hence the three colors in the logo. I believe that NS owns 2/3rds of EMP now.The reporting numbers were also assigned to the individual partners; 18xxxx, 28xxxx, and 68xxxx,(sorry,I can't remember who belongs to which series).Conrail was also a partner with BN and Sante Fe in the NACS container pool,which has also bought up a lot of the containers that carried the reporting marks of BN & Sante Fe and put them in the NACS pool.By the way,UPS is powerful enough to hold an entire train making a pickup to wait for one last trailer that is running late and is beyond the cut-off time. And Joe,thanks for using UPS,it keeps me working and in overtime!Good luck and stay safe.

[cpbloom]

DTomajko, when you mention Pittsburgh, are you talking about the intermodal facility in Pitcarin?

[DTomajko]

Yes, the Pitcairn yard is now known as the Pittsburgh Intermodal Terminal of Norfolk Southern.The railroad location is still listed as Pitcairn.It replaced Island Avenue near Pittsburgh in 1995 and was built by Conrail.

[Anonymous]

To extend on DTomajko's early post, look behind a major Wal*Mart store around christmas, and see the numorous containers.

[Anonymous]

UPS does help raise the bar for intermodal service expectations for the RR's. They pay a pretty good rate, but get the best service.
At the top, you mentioned that you don't see rail-trailers around anymore. That's been a very deliberate move on the part of UP & BNSF as they have shifted to their partnership in the EMP and NACS container programs respectively. They believe that there is more money to be made in a lower service container train with 200 containers in a mile-long train vs. 100 trailers in the same length train. To keep up, they would have had to invest in 53' rail trailers and they decided to invest in containers instead. (Albeit, CSXI still owns around 58,000 rail trailers (or so their website indicates.))

In terms of TOFC, the RR's have said that they look to private owners to bring the equipment (i.e. Schneider National in the full-load truckload market), UPS for package, and the other biggies, that nobody mentioned above, the LTL guys like Yellow and Roadway who bring a lot of TOFC freight to the railhead.

Look for TTX to bring the first new TOFC cars on line next year that they have bought in a while. All of the recent investment has been in 48' and more recently 53' well car capacity. Watch for new 53' TOFC cars. They (and their RR owners) have seen TOFC reach the bottom end of the valley and expect it to grow.

I think that there's a dichotomy at the RR's. Ask an operating guy or a terminal operator what they like and you might find that they'll tell you that trailers ain't all bad. The trains run lighter so they accellerate faster and get over the line quicker. In the ramps, you ground them and they go... no chassis to store, balance, maintain, etc. On the other hand, if you ask the beancounters, ... bring on the containers!

Is there a right answer? Yes. The right answer is which ever of them fits the shippers needs. That's who really pays the bills and that is who will really decide if intermodal grows. Once size does not fit all. For some commodities (ie. light product like tissue, TP, toweling, etc.) the shipper wants maximum cube space (ie. a 53' platewall trailer). They will not deal with the intrusions caused by the bracing in a container. For other customers, they can only fill a 40' container (and in many cases, can't fill near that much) without hitting maximum weight restrictions. In some lanes the RR charges more to move a container, in others is cheaper. It all comes down to having the right mix in the right place at the right time with the right price to meet what the shipper needs & wants. (Remember polynomial algebra in high school? Its kinda like that.)

[DTomajko]

The "rail-trailer" is hardly a dead duck on the rails.Most rail trailers in use now aren't owned by railroads, but are owned by leasing / rental companies, ie.: TIP or XTRA.Even if the trailer carries a railroad's reporting marks, a look at the registration reveals that TIP actually owns it, with the railroad a longterm leaser.The only railroad owned trailers I have encountered lately have been a few BNSF & Vermont Rwy units, and some of their fleets are also longterm leasers. Also,one of the biggest users of rail-trailers is UPS, so they won't be disappearing anytime soon. Many shippers are utilizing rail-controlled equipment to cover extra demand during busy shipping seasons,(ie; Christmas),instead of buying extra trailers or containers that might sit idle for half a year. They don't have to absorb unneeded maintenence, payments, or storage costs, the railroads do. The railroads can utilize the equipment for multiple customers who hopefully have different busy times throughout the year, thereby making better use of their equipment. At least that is the theory, a lot of empty trailers and containers sit around intermodal yards waiting to be needed. In Pittsburgh, NS has to pay for any empty trailer that is sitting on the lot for more than ten days, so during the week, any available space on the Chicago train is filled up with the oldest empties.On weekends,there is less loads to put up, so a lot more empties are loaded until only approximately ten 45' & ten 48' trailers are left. On one Sunday in Nov. 2003,60 empties were put up in a train of 74 units to clean out the storage area,(50 were still left behind!). Trailers are sent to Chicago or Kansas City, which is considered to be the "home" terminal for most units and not subject to idle charges. As far as containers go, it is a considerable haedache keeping track of everyone's chassis. Except for companies that participate in a railroad 20' & 40' chassis pool, all other containers maintain their own pools. In Pittsburgh,there are chassis pools for; NYK, Maersk-Sealand, OOCL, K-Line, Evergreen, Hyundai, P&O Nedlloyd, JB Hunt, EMP & NACS 48', and EMP & NACS 53'. The rail chassis pool consists of Cosco, China Shippers, Hanjin, Mederatanian, & Yang Ming. Boxes without pools accepted are Hapag-Lloyd, Zim, APL, & NOL.Needless to say, a lot of parking is taken up just storing bare chassis waiting to be needed. I don't know about other ramps, but I would assume that only the names are different and the situations are similar.I guess the old adage that nothing is as simple as it looks would apply here. EMP & NACS containers are stored without charge since NS is a part owner of both, with all their ramps considered as "home". Merry Christmas to all and stay safe out there.

[mudchicken]

Trainnut484:
9- was Richmond/Oakland/Fresno
8- was Los Angeles/ San Bernardino
5-Was South Texas
4-Was Colorado/Denver
3-Was Kansas City
1-was Chicago

7,6 & 2 were somewhere, but I rarely saw those numbers used (2=Tulsa, 6=East Texas, 7=El Paso possibly)

If the 199 just left Corwith/Chicago, the dispatcher was already shoo-ing us off the track in the valley in California....You did not mess with anything with a 7, 8 or 9 in the middle number slot. The current alphabet soup is not always so simple to figure out as far as what's priority.

MC

[Trainnut484]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Trainnut484:
9- was Richmond/Oakland/Fresno
8- was Los Angeles/ San Bernardino
5-Was South Texas
4-Was Colorado/Denver
3-Was Kansas City
1-was Chicago

7,6 & 2 were somewhere, but I rarely saw those numbers used (2=Tulsa, 6=East Texas, 7=El Paso possibly)

If the 199 just left Corwith/Chicago, the dispatcher was already shoo-ing us off the track in the valley in California....You did not mess with anything with a 7, 8 or 9 in the middle number slot. The current alphabet soup is not always so simple to figure out as far as what's priority.

MC

Mudchicken,

Thanks for the California numbers. I knew that 8 was Southern California and 9 was Northern California, but without a map I was helpless LOL. The 199 used to blast through my hometown of Emporia, KS in the wee hours of the night so I rarely saw it.

3 was Kansas City area
2 was Ilinois and Iowa
5 was East Texas
6 ....... West Texas
7........ New Mexico and Arizona
4........ Colorado, Kansas and Oklahoma.

The priority scale was:
0-4 - Local and carload freight
5-7 - TOFC/COFC/ carload freight
8-9 - High priority TOFC/COFC

I agree that the numeric system was simple and easy to figure out. I didn't like it when SF used the alpha jargon. If you know city codes then it isn't so hard, but don't rely on city codes used by airlines. Kansas City is MCI in airline lingo and to Amtrak its KCY. BNSF probably uses something like KCI.

Take care,

Russell