"POTHOLES"

[DaveBr]

I see that the valleys have potholes sometimes and I was curious

to know if there ever has been any train wrecks because of some

pothole on or near the tracks??  Thanks Dave Br

[CShaveRR]

Sinkholes, maybe?

I think BNSF had some fun with one in Kansas, not too long ago.  I'm sure that when Mudchicken gets back from whatever assignment he may be on, he can regale us with many tales--probably not of wrecks or derailments, but possibly of tracks taken out of service and lots of chicken-mud placed underneath them.

[anb740]

Don't know about potholes or sinkholes, but CSX excels in the area of mudholes that develop due to poor roadbed conditions.  These usually occur around switchpoints or joints in the rail....basically anywhere there is excessive vibration that pulverizes the ballast into a nice, concrete-like paste.  It's about like hitting a pothole if you're inside the locomotive cab.

[mudchicken]

Ballast pockets, soft subgrade & mudholes... any can lead to a surface defect severe enough to cause problems if not remedied or slow ordered.   It's a budgetary balancing act between buying shiny new toys vs. putting money into the mundane world of track maintenance (ballast, engineering, rail, ties, surfacing equipment and labor)....

Track can be incredibly forgiving and locomotive suspensions can be very harsh on creature comforts, especially the big GE's with the kingpin right under the cab floor. Welcome to the real world!

 (I vote for more track maintenance and fewer shiny new toys, but I know I'm in the minority and partial to one particular side of the equation)

 

 

Rusty Iron Feathers

Carl: Somewhere in NE Wyoming's PRB Coal Fields  (MP 3 BNSF Campbell Sub)

[youngengineer]

There is a sinkhole in Hutchinson Ks, that while right now is under some containment, was a nightmarish problem when it occured. It was caused by an old salt mine, that caved in, they dumped about 15 trains of rock 20-40 cars each in the hole and didnt help, they now have a retaining wall that seems to be working. I happened to be working the west side of newton when it happened dumped the first trian of rock into the hole, the rock went into the hole under the water and disappared. Amazing sight to see that much rock disappear into a hole. It actually closed one of the main lines for a few weeks and Amtrak had to slow to a crawl and be watched by MOW while moving across the tracks near the sinkhole.

 

[CShaveRR]

Thanks, Young'un, that's the one I was thinking of.

[CSXrules4eva]

Don't know about potholes or sinkholes, but CSX excels in the area of mudholes that develop due to poor roadbed conditions.  These usually occur around switchpoints or joints in the rail....basically anywhere there is excessive vibration that pulverizes the ballast into a nice, concrete-like paste.  It's about like hitting a pothole if you're inside the locomotive cab.

Ya know I hate to say it but I do agree with you CSX has some of the worst trackage I have ever seen. They also do lack greatly in taking care of those mudholes.

CSX had a mini derailment a couple of years ago in Lansdale, PA at the Septa / CSX switching terminal. I posted this on the forums a couple of years ago. Anyway, A excessive hight box car AOK (reporting marks) derailed as it was being switched. The reason why it derailed was as a result of poor track maintence. 

This is what the track looked like.

 

ISN'T THAT SAD???

 

[PigFarmer1]

Don't know about potholes or sinkholes, but CSX excels in the area of mudholes that develop due to poor roadbed conditions.  These usually occur around switchpoints or joints in the rail....basically anywhere there is excessive vibration that pulverizes the ballast into a nice, concrete-like paste.  It's about like hitting a pothole if you're inside the locomotive cab.

 

It's about like hitting concrete if you're swinging a pick.

[anb740]

It's about like hitting concrete if you're swinging a pick.

You got that right!  Had one friend of mine who got completely bounced out of his seat when he hit one at 50mph.  The fact that he had a cup of tea and some food on the console in front of him didn't help matters any. And did I mention that the fuel tank bottomed out on the grade crossing where the mudhole was.  The CSX solution....slap a 10mph on until the mud drys, then jump it back up to 40. 

[anb740]

Track can be incredibly forgiving and locomotive suspensions can be very harsh on creature comforts, especially the big GE's with the kingpin right under the cab floor. Welcome to the real world!

 

Can't imagine those being worse than some of the former CrapRail SD50s' and 60M/Is'.  Those things had some of the stiffest suspensions I've ever seen.  All you could do when you hit a mudhole is hold on tight, and put some ointment on the bruises afterwards.

[KCSfan]

Just as location, Location, LOCATION is the key to real estate values; drainage, Drainage, DRAINAGE is the key to eliminating soft spots in the roadbed and "mud pumping". This problem often occurs at grade crosssings due to the penny wise and pound foolish MOW practice of running the tamper up to the grade crossing and failing to rework the roadbed under the crossing. There are some crossings where I stop well away from the track for a train to pass because the cars dip and sway so much I fear a derailment. When we still had section gangs I don't remember this to be near as much of a problem as it is today. It seems that crossings now get reworked only during a maintenance "blitz" with a 150 man geng and a mile of MOW equipment.

Mark

[fuzzybroken]

A few weeks back I had the opportunity to talk to a UP (ex-CNW) MOW worker who was working near a grade crossing near the old West Allis depot site.  Track 2 (the one on the north side of the r-o-w?) was pretty thick with mud -- not much drainage there!  He said he thought there used to be some kind of storm drain there, but apparently it was long gone or not working...

We also discussed the grade crossing itself -- one of those rubber types, "supposed to last 25 years"...  Yeah, not in Wisconsin!!!

[mudchicken]

Part  of what you are not seeing is the road owner (city, state, county) not allowing the railroad to close the crossing anywhere from 6 hours to a full day to tamp through an opened crossing.

Far too many local politicians and streets supervisors insist on leaving half the street open at a time which is totally impractical and the railroad might as well not bother to open up the crossing. (It will never hold surface and will have a dip where the two sections meet somewhere out in the middle of the crossing). In the minority of places that will work with the local roadmster, the results are much better. (and don't get me started on all those street asphalt resurfacing programs  that pave railroads into a hole....instead of "Rough Crossing" signs, there should also be "Crossing OK - Street Paved By Idiots"!)....In Los Angeles, near the center of the granola bowl, they arrest roadmasters for trying to fix crossings on busy streets, even with permits and flagging/barricade services in place (A UPRR MTM/Roadmaster and I have personal knowledge!)...

Mookie's favorite crossing is case in point of roadway approaches....

[samfp1943]

Speaking of Kansas. On the UP going south out of Parsons, approx a couple of miles south of the yard office) there is a soft area, that looks like it might have been on a timber trestle at one time in the past, but it now on a rock fill, that periodically requires carloads of boulder sized rip rap (24" or better rocks) delivered in side dump cars and a hi-railer dump truck to be dumped and then the track aligned over it. This has been going on for at least six years that I can attest to. Seems like they just patch rather than "fixing" the problem.

[cr6479]

On conrail hitting a rought spot,quick sand,sinkhole what ever you went to call it. With GP15-2 to SD80.Hit so hard  that you will trip the ground relay and your body parts will hurt for weeks on end. Stuff that is not tied down will fly around in the cab.

[PBenham]

CSX's Frontier yard (ex-Conrail,Penn Central, New York Central) was built on a swamp and for a half century, it's owners/operators have watched it sink slowly when it's dry, and sink like the "Titanic", when its raining or the snow's melting!