Quentin
High-speed train in this case means instead of an P-42 locomotive hauling the train, an AEM-7 will push/pull the train. As an extra bonus, the trains will also have an ex-Metroliner cab car at one end. It will still have the same amfleet cars as it does today.
In the early days of Amtrak, the Harrisburg trains were fairly frequent and were generally a pair of borrowed SEPTA Silverliners (not the IVs). The west end of the line was still good for 90 mph, the east end 80. The scheduled running time with stops was 1:40.
Later, the rebuilt Metroliner MUs were used, followed by Amfleet with either AEM7s or F40s, and finally P42s. Also, running times were slowly lengthed and frequency dropped and ridership plummeted.
Glad to see this line improved. The whole route has grown leaps and bounds over the past couple decades. It'll probably be a big success. Sounds like I need to go take a ride next time I'm up there.
Back when Stanley Crane was building up the business car fleet, we took bedroom car 8 on a shake down trip from Reading to Zoo to Harrisburg and then back to Reading. The Amtrak Harrisburg line was very useful since we could test the ride quality at speeds up to 90 mph on welded and jointed track.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
....It's good to hear they are doing a speed up of the system over on the Harrisburg line....
Used to be a famed Pennsylvaina route and then seems over the years it became less important and now it's good to hear it's coming back.
The Philly-Harrisburg line just about died as a freight route as a result of the Conrail merger. Amtrak owned the ex-PRR line and charged stiff trackage-rights fees and Conrail had its own alternate route in the ex-RDG Harrisburg-Allentown line.
The original Metroliner MU cars made their last stand as MU's on this line but they were poorly suited for the nature of the service with lots of stops and quick acceleration required.
From the Patriot-News:
"Gov. Ed Rendell joked yesterday that no one, with the possible exception of a state trooper, could drive from Harrisburg to downtown Philadelphia in 90 minutes.
"Starting on Oct. 30, anyone can travel that fast -- by train.
"Rendell and Amtrak Chairman David M. Laney announced that after years of delay, 110-mph trains are ready to roll on the 104-mile Keystone Corridor between Harrisburg and Philadelphia.
"A wide array of expensive improvements also means that diesel locomotives will be replaced by cleaner and more efficient electric trains, Amtrak officials said. Trains running between Harrisburg and New York City will no longer need to switch from diesel engines to electric, and passengers will not need to switch trains in Philadelphia."
http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1158122418160960.xml&coll=1
Dave
USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
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RudyRockvilleMD wrote:What will the motive power be electric or diesel? Will push-pull operation be used on the Philadelphia-Harrisburg trains?
It really is hard to figure out from the press releases exactly what their going to do. Sounds like there will be some push-pull, AEM7 powered expresses and "locals" that are new frequencies, but the exiting P42 powered trains that wye at Harrisburg will also be operated.
Just a guess, but subbing in Acelas for the last Metroliners on the schedule probably freed up an AEM7 or two for this service.
As I previously mentioned, the motive power will be AEM-7s in push-pull mode. Ex-Metroliner cab cars will be at the other end. If the train arrives in Philly from New York with the locomotive in the lead, the train would then run with the cab car foward to Harrisburg, the locomotive foward back to Philly. This operation will eliminate the need for a locomotive change at Philly plus it also eliminates the need to turn the consist at Harrisburg.
My daughter often takes the train to and from Harrisburg-- NYC. It normally takes her about 3:50 now including about 25 minutes in Philly to change the engine. What I'm now reading indicates the trip should only be about 3:05 to 3:10 once the new service begins. It will be interesting to see if it results in a significant increase in ridership between Harrisburg and Philly and Harrisburg and NYC.
The last I looked there were 11 trains in each direction weekdays between Harrisburg and Philly and I think 6 on the weekends, with most continuing on to NYC without having to make a change in Philly. Does anyone know if they plan to increase this number, especially on the weekends? I'd heard they were possibly going to do so.
alphas wrote: My daughter often takes the train to and from Harrisburg-- NYC. It normally takes her about 3:50 now including about 25 minutes in Philly to change the engine. What I'm now reading indicates the trip should only be about 3:05 to 3:10 once the new service begins. It will be interesting to see if it results in a significant increase in ridership between Harrisburg and Philly and Harrisburg and NYC. The last I looked there were 11 trains in each direction weekdays between Harrisburg and Philly and I think 6 on the weekends, with most continuing on to NYC without having to make a change in Philly. Does anyone know if they plan to increase this number, especially on the weekends? I'd heard they were possibly going to do so.
A Lancaster paper had an article on line that had some sched details. Three extra round trips on weekdays, one extra on the weekend days. They had the Lancaster dpt times in there, as well. I think there was a morning, midday and evening trip added on weekdays and the midday on weekends.
yippinyahoo wrote:This is great news! I live north of Hbg & take frequent business trips overseas, usually from the Philly airport. As we have only one car, my wife drives me to PIA & back. One day I had the brain fart to take Amtrak from Hbg to 30th St and then SEPTA to the airport, after I noticed the "new" rail line at PIA the previous trip. It worked beautifully except it was exceptionally rough riding as we got closer to 30th St. Anyway, everything was on time and it was very relaxing not having to drive the bloody Turnpike. The only problem was that I left my house late & had to race to the Hbg train station, covering 50 miles in 0:35! By the way, the Hbg train station is absolutely gorgeous, made even more special by the static GG1 and wooden caboose on display
It seems that transit, where it exists, is usually kept a secret. SEPTA's airport line is a great example. How many people take cabs from the airport at $20 or more to Center City when the train is $5 and takes them right where they want to go. Worse yet, they have to walk over the RR tracks to get to the taxi stand! SEPTA needs a big sign "$5 to Downtown Phila. Trains leave every 30 minutes" on all the concourse overpasses to parking/baggage. They also need to keep "users guides" available so that anybody can easily figure out which stop in Center City to use, etc. since most Americans are transit illiterate. And, if they could only figure out how to increase the freq. to every 15 minutes, they'd probably have more customers than seats!
How many people take cabs from the airport at $20 or more to Center City when the train is $5 and takes them right where they want to go.
Depends. There are three choices in Philly -- $5 train, $10 airport van, and $20 cab.
I took the $10 van to a downtown Philly hotel, the $5 train on the way out the airport. The hotel was singularly unhelpful about the train option when I called ahead -- I guess they have some deal going with the cab company. Also, while the van reeked of mildew/mold and was jam packed with Belgian travellers who had colds, it took a person right to the hotel, and the driver helped handle your bags. On the train, you wrestle your own bags, and while it stops within blocks of the hotel, do you really want to drag bags on city streets at night when you are unsure of exactly where the hotel is? The SEPTA people were very helpful about the return trip, and this was done during the day.
Okay, what about DC. DC has this wonderful Metro, so clean and tightly policed that eating a banana on the platform can get you a citation and fine. It doesn't run Sunday AM. The DC cabdrivers all know this when you try and be clever and use transit to get back to Reagan National using the subway, and they are all poised outside the closed station to give rides for a consideration.
As to the $5 train being lower priced than the $10 van, it depends on perspective. SEPTA pays a living wage (I hope and assume) to a union workforce. That van, judging by the accents, pays lower wages to what I assume is a largely immigrant workforce. While the van gets some degree of public subsidy in the form of the roads, my guess is that the total cost of the van is much less than SEPTA even though it is priced higher -- although exploiting immigrant workers at low wages may be viewed as either a social cost, or perhaps a social benefit to allow an immigrant to have work -- hard to say.
But from a transportation policy perspective, I would guess that vans operated by low-wage labor over flexible routes are more cost effective than electric trains operated by higher-wage labor over fixed routes. Before people lay into me as being anti-union, van pools, which the State of Wisconsin pushes as a cost, congestion, parking, and pollution-alleviating mode of transportation depend on a form of low-wage labor (someone in the pool agrees to drive the van).
Oh, and on the SEPTA ride, most of the passengers seemed to jam into one train car -- I rode away from the crowd up front. Given that these are MU's, not only did I get a "cab ride", I also had a car almost all to myself. Very pleasant trip, but don't know how SEPTA covered their operating costs from my fare.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
I must be missing something here. Has the line always been electrified? Is this new service? Or new equipment replacing slower trains? Is the State of Pennsylvania paying for the service, or are federal funds involved as well?
Erik
The Harrisburg line has always been electrified but was used less and less frequently during the Amtrak era. Before Amtrak, PRR and Penn Central trains going from New York City to Harrisburg and points west would bypass downtown Philadelphia's 30th Street Station to avoid having to reverse directions. In the Amtrak era, trains would go into 30th Street where the locomotive switched ends or a new engine was attached. With a shortage of electric motive power, using a diesel locomotive to haul trains between Philly and Harrisburg was more of a necessity than a choice. Also since trains continuing beyond Harrisburg would require a diesel locomotive, thus giving those trains a diesel locomotive at Philly eliminated the need to swap motive power again in Harrisburg.
The faster service is still using the same Amtrak equipment that is around today. With the introduction of Acela Express trainsets, Amtrak only need about 35 AEM-7 to cover the rest of the Northeast Corridor trains. With about 52 AEM-7 on the roster, that leaves about 17 that are not needed on a "average" day. I think it's safe to say that at least 10 are in the shop for either general maintaince or an overall at any given time. So with the excess of electric motive power, Amtrak now has the ability to let a few engines roam to Harrisburg.
They also have a few P40's for sale if anyone is interested in owning one.
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