Tuesday's derailment on UP Milwaukee Sub

[fuzzybroken]

http://www.fuzzyworld3.com/pictures3/railroad/up04-derailments.html#mitchell

[jeaton]

Interesting shots, Mark.  My guess is that the box car is rocking to the left just as it is curving into the switch at the end of that third track, goes over on its side leaving its trucks on or near the rails thus taking the "legs" out from under the covered flat and the hopper car.  At that point those cars just go where ever they want.

[zardoz]

Or maybe a rail tipped as they were pulling down the setout (that siding was never in very good condtion when I was there).

[Anonymous]

Somewhat off topic, but how heavily trafficked is this sub?  I always had the idea that UP swallowed CNW primarily b/c of the extra connections/lines into Chicago coming from the due west.  Anybody know? Same question for the Minneapolis Sub....

Riprap

[fuzzybroken]

Somewhat off topic, but how heavily trafficked is this sub?  I always had the idea that UP swallowed CNW primarily b/c of the extra connections/lines into Chicago coming from the due west.  Anybody know? Same question for the Minneapolis Sub....

I would tend to concur, UP absorbed CNW for their "Overland Route" mainline, as well as the Powder River coal.  The Wisconsin main is somewhat less-trafficked than it was back in CNW days, though I would tend to think that is more the result of CNW's down-sizing in the state, and losing some of its "friendly connections" to WC (i.e. FRVR).  It definitely has the lowest traffic of the four class 1s in cheese-land, mainly because it doesn't "go anywhere" beyond the Twin Cities like BNSF and CP, or beyond the Twin Ports like CN does.

I would think that the northern end of the Spine Line is in a similar situation, as well as the CMO if that line still exists.

Nonetheless, the UP does run several locals in the Milwaukee area, and with two manifest trains in each direction, the Z-CHEM/EMCH RoadRailer train, and a couple coal trains, the UP does present an interesting operation in the state.  When you can find 'em!!!

[railfan619]

Yea I saw some of the trucks over there today. When i went over the bridge and I did not know what had happened until I saw the pictures. I though maybe they were just doin. Some routine track work. Guess not huh.

[solzrules]

Somewhat off topic, but how heavily trafficked is this sub?  I always had the idea that UP swallowed CNW primarily b/c of the extra connections/lines into Chicago coming from the due west.  Anybody know? Same question for the Minneapolis Sub....

I would tend to concur, UP absorbed CNW for their "Overland Route" mainline, as well as the Powder River coal.  The Wisconsin main is somewhat less-trafficked than it was back in CNW days, though I would tend to think that is more the result of CNW's down-sizing in the state, and losing some of its "friendly connections" to WC (i.e. FRVR).  It definitely has the lowest traffic of the four class 1s in cheese-land, mainly because it doesn't "go anywhere" beyond the Twin Cities like BNSF and CP, or beyond the Twin Ports like CN does.

I would think that the northern end of the Spine Line is in a similar situation, as well as the CMO if that line still exists.

Nonetheless, the UP does run several locals in the Milwaukee area, and with two manifest trains in each direction, the Z-CHEM/EMCH RoadRailer train, and a couple coal trains, the UP does present an interesting operation in the state.  When you can find 'em!!!

Fuzz

agree with you 100 percent.  It is always fun to find a UP train on those lines.  It is one of the few places where they'll put 5 SD 40-2's together on a train.  I think because it isn't a major line they don't give it the newer power.  UP has been doing some pretty extensive track work on the line, too. 

[railfan619]

Yeah when ever I go by there I always see 2 or more engines hooked up to a short train or what. I mean a train that
only has 25 cars or less and yeah these are the SD40-2's like yesterday when I had to take a kid home he lives right next to the tracks and only a block or so from mitchell yard and. Heck that would be a cool place to live but anywho. Does anyone know what time this derailment happened cause if it happened. Around 12:30 or so I was right around that area cause. I saw LLPX Locomotive sitting on a track with about 5 or 10 cars like he was going to do some switching. I think the number was like 2242 or something like not sure bout that. But anywho that's it from over here.

[fuzzybroken]

Solz -- There is actually a pretty good variety of power on the UP, but you just have to find the right train!  The Z's usually run with a fairly new SD70M or GE equivalent , the coalies run with a mix of high-horsepower AC units, while the manifests usually rate the spartan cab GEs or SD40-2s.  The locals round out the equation, running the GP38s/GP39s/GP40s?, while operations like Janesville use the MP15s.  Not really all that different from CNW days, though things have moved up a bit from the early Geeps!  Still, I can't imagine things are all that different up here compared to the rest of the UP system, other than a difference in intermodal trains (RoadRailers vs. doublestacks) and lower volume -- maybe we can call the northeast end of the UP "UP Lite"...?

Does anyone know what time this derailment happened cause if it happened. Around 12:30 or so I was right around that area cause. I saw LLPX Locomotive sitting on a track with about 5 or 10 cars like he was going to do some switching. I think the number was like 2242 or something like not sure bout that.

From what I could tell, it happened sometime around mid-day.  Do you have a scanner?  That was my second "notification" that there had been any kind of incident, my first was seeing a northbound train stopped at 7th Street.  And, there's almost always an LLPX engine sitting around at Mitchell!!!

[solzrules]

Solz -- There is actually a pretty good variety of power on the UP, but you just have to find the right train!  The Z's usually run with a fairly new SD70M or GE equivalent , the coalies run with a mix of high-horsepower AC units, while the manifests usually rate the spartan cab GEs or SD40-2s.  The locals round out the equation, running the GP38s/GP39s/GP40s?, while operations like Janesville use the MP15s.  Not really all that different from CNW days, though things have moved up a bit from the early Geeps!  Still, I can't imagine things are all that different up here compared to the rest of the UP system, other than a difference in intermodal trains (RoadRailers vs. doublestacks) and lower volume -- maybe we can call the northeast end of the UP "UP Lite"...?

Does anyone know what time this derailment happened cause if it happened. Around 12:30 or so I was right around that area cause. I saw LLPX Locomotive sitting on a track with about 5 or 10 cars like he was going to do some switching. I think the number was like 2242 or something like not sure bout that.

From what I could tell, it happened sometime around mid-day.  Do you have a scanner?  That was my second "notification" that there had been any kind of incident, my first was seeing a northbound train stopped at 7th Street.  And, there's almost always an LLPX engine sitting around at Mitchell!!!

No, it probably isn't that much different from CNW days.  I enjoy watching CP rail more but all you ever see there are AC4400's, with maybe a SD 60 thrown in if they are busy.  UP still runs all kinds of stuff on the Adam's line in WI, so it's a little different.  Not only that, there is nothing like seeing UP book down that rickety track at 40 mph with the railcars all swinging back and forth in unison.  I can't believe they don't have more derailments.  Word is that they are going to put all welded rail down on this line.  They must anticipate some amount of traffic if they are going to sink that kind of money into it. 

[railfan619]

I meant write on this yesterday or the day before but. I kept forgetting to cause I have been so busy. At work in the last week But I have gone over the 35th st. Bridge right where it happened. And on thursday I do beleave it was the derailment was cleaned up to the most part. All of the cars were rerailed execpt one the blue covered hopper was still laying on it's side between a couple of tracks. but the rest were on a track waiting to go to a repair facilty. And on friday when I drove over it the cars were gone execpt that one and railroad trucks were still working at fixing the switch and also dumping more ballast. But other wise it was pretty much done and over with.

[fuzzybroken]

Cool, thanks for the update!  They'll probably go to Cudahy Car Shops, which might just be where several of them were headed in the first place...

[fuzzybroken]

Old questions, new answers: With the departure of the first batch of ex-CNW 8500s (C40-8s), the SD70Ms are coming.  On Thursday, I spotted UP 4012 and 4014 in charge of a train parked near the former Mitchell Yard.  Not sure what the problem was, though I heard that one of the mains was out of service -- since the train was still in the same spot later in the day, I presume it had some kind of mechanical problem!

Thursday around Milwaukee saw (at least!) two derailments on UP, and more elsewhere.  I got photos of a derailed boxcar on the Green Spur, and "Mighty Maggio" (might make for a cute avatar) lifting UP 396 on the Miller Compressing switchback back onto the rails.  Posting them might take till next Thursday, for one small reason...

Also, I updated the link in the first post, since somebody went looking for photos that had moved into a different album...

[zardoz]

The incident at Oak Creek would be on the Kenosha subdivision; the Milwaukee sub is the tracks between KO and Airport.

[rsovitzky]

I'm pretty sure MKE sub goes all the way to Butler yard, no?

 

[Wyonate]

I wonder if this is the reason for slow traffic here in the PRB.  I see alot is trains from back there here daily, now.  Was very very slow.  Normally 60-80 trains a day, slowed to 8-10.  Maybe my curiosity can be laid to rest.

[CShaveRR]

Yes, the Milwaukee Sub goes up to Butler, and the WEPX derailment happened on the Kenosha Sub.

Nate, this shouldn't have had any bearing at all on the north end of the PRB--BNSF doesn't get any closer to this location than Chicago or the Mississippi River.

(Nate, you poor guy, requiring high horsepower to move you--prunes do it for me!)

[Anonymous]

Somewhat off topic, but how heavily trafficked is this sub?  I always had the idea that UP swallowed CNW primarily b/c of the extra connections/lines into Chicago coming from the due west.  Anybody know? Same question for the Minneapolis Sub....

I would tend to concur, UP absorbed CNW for their "Overland Route" mainline, as well as the Powder River coal.  The Wisconsin main is somewhat less-trafficked than it was back in CNW days, though I would tend to think that is more the result of CNW's down-sizing in the state, and losing some of its "friendly connections" to WC (i.e. FRVR).  It definitely has the lowest traffic of the four class 1s in cheese-land, mainly because it doesn't "go anywhere" beyond the Twin Cities like BNSF and CP, or beyond the Twin Ports like CN does.

I would think that the northern end of the Spine Line is in a similar situation, as well as the CMO if that line still exists.

Nonetheless, the UP does run several locals in the Milwaukee area, and with two manifest trains in each direction, the Z-CHEM/EMCH RoadRailer train, and a couple coal trains, the UP does present an interesting operation in the state.  When you can find 'em!!!

The CMO out of the Twin Cities sees a pretty good level of activity.  The UP yard down on the southwest side in Shakopee always seems to be busy with lots of switching going on.  The former CMO main through Worthington, MN looked in very good shape last time I saw it last summer.

[fuzzybroken]

The incident at Oak Creek would be on the Kenosha subdivision; the Milwaukee sub is the tracks between KO and Airport.

You are correct sir!  And technically, one of Thursday's derailments was on the Kenosha Sub as well, unless the National Ave Spur has been re-appended to the Milwaukee Sub since the timetable I use was issued (1998).  Both of the latter were, however, in Milwaukee.

I wonder if this is the reason for slow traffic here in the PRB.  I see alot is trains from back there here daily, now.  Was very very slow.  Normally 60-80 trains a day, slowed to 8-10.  Maybe my curiosity can be laid to rest.

I doubt that a derailment from a year and a half to two years ago would have any effect on the PRB, nor two minor branchline derailments from last Thursday.  Some weather-related issues may have something to do with it, however...

[zardoz]

I'm pretty sure MKE sub goes all the way to Butler yard, no?

You are correct...my error.  You'd think that after running up and down those tracks for 19 years I'd remember (of course, it's been 16 years since I was out there).  I sit corrected.

[rsovitzky]

zardoz,

 I'm glad I'm finally right about something

 Anybody,

Is there a way to get a current map of UP's trackage in SE Wisconsin?

 

[Gluefinger]

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/travel/rail/

[da Milwaukee beerNut]

2008 WI DOT Railroad map 770k pdf..

[rsovitzky]

Hey - thanks guys. That PDF is pretty darn good. Trouble with Google Maps, etc, is that one cannot tell what is truly operational and what's 'abandoned'.