Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
The bilevels were purchased in 2 batches - 30 in 1950 and 30 more in 1957. The power cars were converted standard combines and coaches and were always coupled to the west end of the train in order not to smoke-up Union Station. Push Pull operation didn't start until 1965, so before that eastbound trains had an E unit up front, bilevels, and the power car on the end. Westbounds had an E unit, power car, and the bilevels. The power car wouldn't be visible in a picture of an Eastbound before Push Pull that doesn't show the whole train. Once Push Pull became the norm both the E-unit and the power car were always on the west end of the train.
Before Push Pull, commuter trains arriving at Union Station were backed or pulled out to the coach yard. The E-units were cut off and run around the wye in batches, serviced, and re-assigned to outbound trains. Unlike the long distance trains, the commuter trains themselves were not turned, probably because the wye at Union Station was a very busy piece of track.
I'm less clear on the procedures on the west-end of their runs, but E-units could have been turned on turntables at both Downers Grove and Eola. The Downers Grove coach yard was shut down in 1952 and all trains went to Aurora, spending the night at Eola. I also don't know when the large overhead towers that supply standby HEP in the Union Station coach yard were built. I'm fairly certain in the early days standby power was supplied by the power cars.
up829 wrote: The bilevels were purchased in 2 batches - 30 in 1950 and 30 more in 1957.
The bilevels were purchased in 2 batches - 30 in 1950 and 30 more in 1957.
In "Everywhere West, The Burlington Route" by Patrick Dorin, there's a July 1951 picture of an eastbound with an E Unit, 2 bilevels, and a power car on page 98. Other pictues always show the power cars, even on short trains and that's the way I remember them, but there could have been exceptions.
The power cars were built for use with the first batch of bilevels and the book mentions they were also used with some rebuilt standard coaches in commuter service. The power cars did carry passengers and were smoking cars. The second batch of bilevels replaced the standard coaches, but there's no mention of any differences in power requirements. The first batch had brown interiors and tile floors, while the second group was green and had slightly plusher seats. Both had rather dim individual lighting fixtures compared to the recent rebuilds with bright flourescent lighting, so 61 volts may be right, but I don't know what they used for air conditioning. I believe the current rebuilds use 400 volt HEP and this was done in conjunction with converting the group of E-units to HEP and eliminating the power cars.
up829 wrote: I'm less clear on the procedures on the west-end of their runs, but E-units could have been turned on turntables at both Downers Grove and Eola. The Downers Grove coach yard was shut down in 1952 and all trains went to Aurora, spending the night at Eola.
I'm less clear on the procedures on the west-end of their runs, but E-units could have been turned on turntables at both Downers Grove and Eola. The Downers Grove coach yard was shut down in 1952 and all trains went to Aurora, spending the night at Eola.
I don't think that the power was turned at Eola during the day, but was turned at Aurora. There were two turntables in Aurora, one at the station and one down at the shops at the roundhouse. The one at the station was used to turn the power during the day.
Bert
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 wrote: up829 wrote: I'm less clear on the procedures on the west-end of their runs, but E-units could have been turned on turntables at both Downers Grove and Eola. The Downers Grove coach yard was shut down in 1952 and all trains went to Aurora, spending the night at Eola. I don't think that the power was turned at Eola during the day, but was turned at Aurora. There were two turntables in Aurora, one at the station and one down at the shops at the roundhouse. The one at the station was used to turn the power during the day. Bert
This is correct, the power was turned at the turntable just down from the old station on Broadway (now closed and transferred to the Aurora Transportation Center at the site of the old shops complex and roundhouse). The old station platforms, tracks (except for two mainline tracks), the tower which once stood across the tracks from the station and the turntable are all gone.
Murphy Siding wrote: I'll show my lack of knowledge on this subject: Did the "steam generators" on passenger locomotives produce the electricity for the passenger cars?
Nope. Steam generators weren't steam (powered) (electrical) generators but a type of boiler to generate (make) steam for train heating and occasionally cooling. How did they use steam to cool? Well, watch this space-there are many others here who can explain it far better that I.
Green Bay Paddlers wrote:Wow - thanks everyone for the incredible info. You guys know your stuff. I had bits and pieces of this all in my mind - but I wasn't positive on some of the facts. My next wondering is if push-pull cab/cars will eventually be replaced by old F40PH's hollowed out - like they're using on short AMTRAK runs?
It seems like almost all the scoots I've been seeing lately have the new(er) cab cars, but that's hardly a scientific sample. These have big windows, stronger crash posts, and oxide red sheet metal plows.
There was an interview with the outgoing chairman of Metra on PBS recently, where he said ridership on the BN line is growing so fast it's becoming a problem. He didn't elaborate but went on to say they were planning some changes in bus feeder routes and schedules on the UP west line to try and get more people who live in-between to use the UP line. I've been seeing a lot more trains on the BN line with double headed F40s, even non-rush hour trains. The honorary names on some of these show they came from other lines, but that could just be random reasignment after maintenance. In any case, they're being put to use. An article in Trains not too long ago said the older 6 axle ex-Milwaukee line units had all been sold.
Murphy Siding wrote: I wonder if you found a photo that had a number on that car following the locomotive,that you might be able to research something from that?
Since for reasons not even clear to me now I purchased a copy of "Burlington Route Car Diagrams" some ten years ago, I thought I'd pull it out and check. Six coaches were rebuilt with four cylinder Cummins diesel generator sets producing 40 kW. They were conventional 72 ft eight wheel steel clerestory roof cars and had either 68 or 70 seats and were numbered 7200-7203 (70 st) and 7204 -7205 (68 st). These were used with standard cars.
The cars used with Gallery Cars included two 80 ft twelve wheel combines, rebuilt with arch roofs and six cylinder 65 kW Cummins generator sets. These cars, numbered 7300 and 7301, seated 46 passengers. Another twelve cars were 64 passenger coaches with the same dimensions and characteristics as the combines, and these were numbered 7302 to 7313. These 14 cars were steel painted silver to match the stainless steel gallery cars.
If anyone wants more details that I can get from the diagrams, ask and I'll post them.
M636C
M636C wrote:If anyone wants more details that I can get from the diagrams, ask and I'll post them. M636C
Cooling with steam:
The method was called steam ejector air conditioning. The idea is that you expanded steam through a nozzle called the ejector, and that created a suction to form a partial vacuum. You then boiled water in the vacuum chamber -- water boils at a low temperature at reduced pressures -- and that was your cold or your indoor coil. The output of the ejector contained your spent steam along with evaporated water from your cold chamber -- you condensed all of that water and then you had makeup water to pump back into the cold chamber.
Freon boils at low temperature at normal pressure, and that is why a mechanical (Freon-based or Freon-subsitute based) AC uses a compressor to liquify the Freon at high pressure in the condensor (outdoor coil) and then boil the Freon at normal pressure in the evaporator (indoor coil).
So steam ejector is the same thermodynamics as mechanical AC -- you boil a working fluid to absorb heat (cold side) and then condense that working fluid in another chamber or coil to reject the heat. The difference is that in steam ejector, water is the working fluid, so you have to boil it in a partial vacuum, and you use a steam ejector nozzle as a vacuum pump.
Don't know if steam ejector uses more or less fuel to make the steam than using fuel in an HEP generator to power mechanical AC. The story is that Santa Fe really liked steam ejector for their passenger trains in the hot desert Southwest, so steam ejector must have been powerful. Steam ejector caused problems in the Amtrak Heritage fleet with mix-and-match equipment and train crews not knowing that they had to keep the steam generator going in the locomotive to keep the AC on in the coaches.
The University of Wisconsin-Madison campus generates steam for heat and cold water for AC in two central HVAC plants and then pipes steam and chilled water in tunnels to heat and cool all of the buildings. I heard that some of the central chillers are steam powered, so I imagine they may use steam ejector. I suppose steam trainlines are a relic of the past no one wants to deal with, even though HEP may be using more fuel, especially to provide electric heat in winter.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Green Bay Paddlers wrote:So here is my question then...Picture #1 is unit 9940 in 1973 with a power car. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=76583Picture #2 is unit 9940 in 1970 (three years EARLIER) without a power car. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=1857Same unit. Any ideas?
Firstly, 9940 is a standard E-8 without HEP
It was rebuilt as an E-8Au with HEP in February 1974 and renumbered as 9903.
E-8Au units were numbered 9900-9904. E-9Au units were numbered 9910-9925.
The easiest way to tell HEP units is that they had orange-red diagonal stripes on the nose rather than green, had no portholes, and had louvres at the rear to cool the HEP engine.
I can only assume that in the 1970 photo, the gallery cars still retained their own generators, but that they had been converted to HEP by 1973. There are two gallery car diagrams and one gallery cab car diagram, all of which indicate in the data tables "generator" but this has been altered to read "non", presumably meaning they were converted to HEP.
The power car in the 1973 photo is either 7300 or 7301.
Green Bay Paddlers wrote:I gotcha. That makes perfect sense to me. Some of the original bilevels had their own generators. This was slightly before my time (born in 74), so this must have been a really interesting time watching a variety of equipment ride the rails. Did BN run longer trains at this time? Many of these early pictures only show 2-3 car trains. Thanks again...
I'm not a local to Chicago, so I just don't know. I have seen photos of longer single deck trains, but hopefully someone will know.
A 2-3 car train is obviously an off-peak schedule. CB&Q/BN and the others ran and continue to run up to eight cars (or longer) during rush hours.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.