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North American Operations of the GATX Tank Trains

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Posted by Hearne Guy on Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:55 PM

Each car has a butterfly valve that is shut in transit.  They are located at each end of the interconnecting 10" hoses.  On some of the earlier cars the hoses were only 6" in diameter but they still had the butterfly valves to reduce the spillage should the cars derail and the hoses ripped off.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, January 25, 2015 10:23 AM

Back in 2010 and 2011 I saw several not-very-long strings of the TankTrain in CP's ex-D&H Kenwood Yard, just south of Albany, NY. 

There are several photos (none are mine) on the Railpictures.net website of the TankTrain in recent operations - see, for example:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=509198&nseq=0 (Quebec, Sept. 10, 2014)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=504799&nseq=1 (Quebec, Nov. 02, 2014)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=53219&nseq=21 (Oct. 2003 - note that the caption says "The trains consit of 4 block of 17 cars, for a total of 68 cars. Six trains runs daily."  The comment - "it can be seen 6 times a day- too dark ;-)" - also seems to confirm the 6 trains daily - ?!?).

And one of my favorites from Feb. 2006:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=133704&nseq=16 

- Paul North. 

 

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Monday, January 26, 2015 12:43 AM

The September 10th, 2014 photo on the CN in Quebec shows the GATX TankTrain and a new tank train of oil product from North Dakota moved first by the BNSF.

There is a BNSF buffer service only covered hopper.

 

The next photo shows the new ARI or Greenbrier built oil tank cars.

 

When the link is clicked upon, they load up that webpage in this window tab, instead of in another window or even a second tab.

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Monday, January 26, 2015 12:46 AM

The CN GATX TankTrain tank car trains, shown in the 2003 and 2006 photos on the railpictures site, have no buffer cars between the tanks and the locomotives.

Andrew

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 26, 2015 6:18 AM

Andrew Falconer

The CN GATX TankTrain tank car trains, shown in the 2003 and 2006 photos on the railpictures site, have no buffer cars between the tanks and the locomotives.

 

Canadian regulations are different than US regulations.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 26, 2015 9:26 AM

The CP/VTRS tank train operation from Albany to Burlington VT is still around as far as I know.  It replaced the bulk oil barges that came up the Champlain Canal in the mid-1980s. Gasoline, Diesel and #2 heating oil are all carried.

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Posted by JBlaine on Saturday, November 11, 2017 8:04 PM

I commissioned the facility and unloaded the first TankTrain at the Carson refinery back in 1983. The train consisted of six sets of 12 cars. Each 12 car set was pressurized with nitrogen to push the crude oil out. All six sets were unloaded simultaneously. It took four hours to unload a train. With the proper "persuasion", it was possible to unload a full train in a little over 90 minutes.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 13, 2017 8:17 PM

JBlaine
I commissioned the facility and unloaded the first TankTrain at the Carson refinery back in 1983. The train consisted of six sets of 12 cars. Each 12 car set was pressurized with nitrogen to push the crude oil out. All six sets were unloaded simultaneously. It took four hours to unload a train. With the proper "persuasion", it was possible to unload a full train in a little over 90 minutes.

How many cu. ft. of Nitrogen were required per train?

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 13, 2017 9:37 PM

BaltACD
How many cu. ft. of Nitrogen were required per train?

And could you recover any of it, or was it just vented to the atmosphere?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:46 AM

tree68
 
BaltACD
How many cu. ft. of Nitrogen were required per train? 

And could you recover any of it, or was it just vented to the atmosphere?

Probably left in the empty consist to reduce issues with vapors, then vented (perhaps through vapor separation for EPA reasons) incidentally when consist was refilled.  Around 78% of the atmosphere is nitrogen and it used to be relatively cheap to separate as a ‘by-product’ of LOX for steelmaking.

I suspect nowadays you would separate purge nitrogen ‘on site’ with molecular sieves as done in the packaging industry.  What was used then?  Pressure bottles or cryo?

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Posted by JBlaine on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:34 AM

The nitrogen was injected as opposed to the cars been pressurized. The crude was shipped at 140 degrees plus and relied on the expansion of the nitrogen through the cars to remove the oil. How much nitrogen? Wish I could answer that question, but it was over 30 years ago. I can tell you that the nitrogen was vented to atmosphere as the train was loaded in Bakersfield.

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:30 AM

The phone companies still pump nitrogen into their older copper lines to keep them dry ..

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, November 24, 2017 7:35 AM

Quite a few years ago, there was a tire retailer (Acorn Tire, I believe) in the Chicago area that advertised that the new tires you bought from them were filled with nitrogen.  It sounded like a gimmick to me.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 24, 2017 9:24 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Quite a few years ago, there was a tire retailer (Acorn Tire, I believe) in the Chicago area that advertised that the new tires you bought from them were filled with nitrogen.  It sounded like a gimmick to me.

It may be largely a marketing thing, but there are good reasons to exclude oxygen under pressure from the inside of a tire and to eliminate the water that is almost always carried over from garage air compressor setups.  

 

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Friday, November 24, 2017 9:42 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Quite a few years ago, there was a tire retailer (Acorn Tire, I believe) in the Chicago area that advertised that the new tires you bought from them were filled with nitrogen.  It sounded like a gimmick to me.

 

 
A tire retailer in my area advertises that.  In addition, certain upscale autos are delivered new with nitrogen filled tires.  They will have a green tipped valve stem cap if so equipped. 
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 24, 2017 10:31 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Quite a few years ago, there was a tire retailer (Acorn Tire, I believe) in the Chicago area that advertised that the new tires you bought from them were filled with nitrogen.  It sounded like a gimmick to me.

Professional level racing normally use Nitrogen to inflate their tires.  The use of Nitrogen allows for more precise measurement of the use parameters of the tires and their response to heat during use.  Air contains water vapor - vapor that can become STEAM when heated beyond 212 degrees and add additional pressure to the desired inflation pressure.  In racing, tires and their inflation pressure, form a portion of the total 'spring rate' of the entire suspension system which also includes the springs, shock dampers as well as resistance in all the movable suspension links.  While it is realatively difficult to adjust the 'hardware' of the suspension, it is easy to adjust tire pressure when it is necessary to 'tune' the suspension to the surface upon which the race is being contested.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Friday, November 24, 2017 1:44 PM

   The nitrogen thing apparently comes and goes.    Back in the late 1960's (more or less), I remember a big advertising push offering nitrogen for tires.   I figure they couldn't compete with free air.

   On Balt's point, I've always thought it important to keep out moisture, especially when watching them wet the tire bead to make mounting easier.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 24, 2017 1:57 PM

And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires. SInce I do not drive anymore, this does not affect me particularly.

I doubt that many people have cooled off by blowing air in their faces as I saw Jeff (of "Mutt and Jeff") doing 65-75 years ago.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 24, 2017 4:32 PM

Paul of Covington
   The nitrogen thing apparently comes and goes.    Back in the late 1960's (more or less), I remember a big advertising push offering nitrogen for tires.   I figure they couldn't compete with free air.

   On Balt's point, I've always thought it important to keep out moisture, especially when watching them wet the tire bead to make mounting easier.

To do Nitrogen 'properly' the tire, once mounted in 'atmosphere' conditions need to have a vacuum pump attached to evacuate the 'air' that is in the mounted tire.  Once the 'air' has been evacuated the nitrogen can then be added.

I suspect what retail tire outlets are doing is just adding nitrogen to tires that have been mounted with 'atmosphere' conditions and the water vapor from the atmosphere is still in the tire.  From my view point Nitrogen in consumer tire applications is just a gimmick to get people to spend, spend, spend.  Junk Science sells.

The solution used to mount/dismount beads over the wheel rim is a commercial product at tire shops, however, for home tire mount/dismounts a solution of water and dishwashing liquid performs the trick.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 24, 2017 4:37 PM

Deggesty
And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires. SInce I do not drive anymore, this does not affect me particularly.

I doubt that many people have cooled off by blowing air in their faces as I saw Jeff (of "Mutt and Jeff") doing 65-75 years ago.

In as much as most retail gasolene outlets no longer have mechanical shops as a part of the overall operation, they have no need for a air system to support the mechanics air tools, which was the supply in the days of 'free air'.  Nowadays the air supply is a 'on demand' pump that is activated by the money that is required to turn the pump on.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 24, 2017 4:47 PM

BaltACD
Deggesty
And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires.

Inasmuch as most retail gasoline outlets no longer have mechanical shops as a part of the overall operation, they have no need for a air system to support the mechanics air tools, which was the supply in the days of 'free air'.  Nowadays the air supply is a 'on demand' pump that is activated by the money that is required to turn the pump on.

Just do what I do: go to one of the tire chain stores, or a 'garage' like Firestone or Midas car care, where they will have a handy air hose reel at the front of one of the bays.  I have never yet been refused the use of this hose and chuck to put air in even large, relatively flat tires free.  And the setup is much preferable to the old service-station air facilities, many of which were decidedly run down with dubious compressed-air quality.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 24, 2017 5:47 PM

Overmod
 
BaltACD
Deggesty
And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires.

Inasmuch as most retail gasoline outlets no longer have mechanical shops as a part of the overall operation, they have no need for a air system to support the mechanics air tools, which was the supply in the days of 'free air'.  Nowadays the air supply is a 'on demand' pump that is activated by the money that is required to turn the pump on. 

Just do what I do: go to one of the tire chain stores, or a 'garage' like Firestone or Midas car care, where they will have a handy air hose reel at the front of one of the bays.  I have never yet been refused the use of this hose and chuck to put air in even large, relatively flat tires free.  And the setup is much preferable to the old service-station air facilities, many of which were decidedly run down with dubious compressed-air quality.

Since I use air tools at home - I have my own air compressor, I wish it was bigger, but I can make it do what I need it to do.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Friday, November 24, 2017 6:48 PM

   I just carry a little pump that plugs into the cigarette lighter.

   Conversations are fascinating.   We started out talking about tank trains.

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