QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... "I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock Reply beaulieu Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NW Wisconsin 3,857 posts Posted by beaulieu on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:28 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by uzurpator Well - polish experiments with a 6MW (~8000hp) locos required specially designed catenary - one which withstand top load of 4000 amps. Polish system is 3000 V DC. Going electric with the usual 8000-12000 hp unit train consist locos would require either higher voltage on DC or 25000V+ AC catenary. Milwaukee typically (every day) ran two Little Joes with a 4 unit boxcab helper. Working hard, that was well in excess of 20,000 hp at 3400 vDC. Not unreasonable, it works out to 4388 Amps. I was under the impression that the Milwaukee's cantenary was fused for 4000 Amps. Of course holding back the power just a little would help. But I would expect that you could only have one train in section drawing that much power, any others would have to be in regenerative braking, or a different power section. That same train with proper locomotives and running under 25kv AC cantenary would only be drawing 597 Amps. It would them be possible to have six such trains working in the substations section. Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:37 PM Two Joes working hard would pull 3,000 amps. An EF-5 working hard would pull about 2300 amps. Put another electrically powered train in a section and you would begin approaching the short time section capacity (two substations) of approximately 8,000 amps, carried by the 500,000 cm equivalent contact wire, a 500,000 cm copper feeder cable, and a 750,000 cm aluminum feeder cable. Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:12 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply DrummingTrainfan Member sinceJuly 2005 From: Omaha-ish, Nebraska 703 posts Posted by DrummingTrainfan on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down. GIFs from http://www.trainweb.org/mccann/offer.htm -Erik, the displaced CNW, Bears, White Sox, Northern Illnois Huskies, Amtrak and Metra fan. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:27 PM I don't think there were many telegraph poles knocked down by animals unless it was a hungry beaver but then again I don't think creosote tastes that good. Reply Edit carnej1 Member sinceNovember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,289 posts Posted by carnej1 on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 11:13 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down. ......I guess that would be conceivable for regular lineside poles, I mean cars hit telephone poles and knock them down. I would point out that common North American mammals in modern times don't get much bigger than elk or moose. No herds of Bison outside of isolated spots like Yellowstone. I'm familiar with modern catenary as I live near the northern part of the NEC (in RI). The poles are extremely sturdy tower type structures and nothing short of a brontosaurus would be able to topple one.......... "I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)].
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by uzurpator Well - polish experiments with a 6MW (~8000hp) locos required specially designed catenary - one which withstand top load of 4000 amps. Polish system is 3000 V DC. Going electric with the usual 8000-12000 hp unit train consist locos would require either higher voltage on DC or 25000V+ AC catenary. Milwaukee typically (every day) ran two Little Joes with a 4 unit boxcab helper. Working hard, that was well in excess of 20,000 hp at 3400 vDC.
QUOTE: Originally posted by uzurpator Well - polish experiments with a 6MW (~8000hp) locos required specially designed catenary - one which withstand top load of 4000 amps. Polish system is 3000 V DC. Going electric with the usual 8000-12000 hp unit train consist locos would require either higher voltage on DC or 25000V+ AC catenary.
QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply DrummingTrainfan Member sinceJuly 2005 From: Omaha-ish, Nebraska 703 posts Posted by DrummingTrainfan on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down. GIFs from http://www.trainweb.org/mccann/offer.htm -Erik, the displaced CNW, Bears, White Sox, Northern Illnois Huskies, Amtrak and Metra fan. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:27 PM I don't think there were many telegraph poles knocked down by animals unless it was a hungry beaver but then again I don't think creosote tastes that good. Reply Edit carnej1 Member sinceNovember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,289 posts Posted by carnej1 on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 11:13 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down. ......I guess that would be conceivable for regular lineside poles, I mean cars hit telephone poles and knock them down. I would point out that common North American mammals in modern times don't get much bigger than elk or moose. No herds of Bison outside of isolated spots like Yellowstone. I'm familiar with modern catenary as I live near the northern part of the NEC (in RI). The poles are extremely sturdy tower type structures and nothing short of a brontosaurus would be able to topple one.......... "I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking.........
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down. GIFs from http://www.trainweb.org/mccann/offer.htm -Erik, the displaced CNW, Bears, White Sox, Northern Illnois Huskies, Amtrak and Metra fan. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:27 PM I don't think there were many telegraph poles knocked down by animals unless it was a hungry beaver but then again I don't think creosote tastes that good. Reply Edit carnej1 Member sinceNovember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,289 posts Posted by carnej1 on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 11:13 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down. ......I guess that would be conceivable for regular lineside poles, I mean cars hit telephone poles and knock them down. I would point out that common North American mammals in modern times don't get much bigger than elk or moose. No herds of Bison outside of isolated spots like Yellowstone. I'm familiar with modern catenary as I live near the northern part of the NEC (in RI). The poles are extremely sturdy tower type structures and nothing short of a brontosaurus would be able to topple one.......... "I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe.
QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down. ......I guess that would be conceivable for regular lineside poles, I mean cars hit telephone poles and knock them down. I would point out that common North American mammals in modern times don't get much bigger than elk or moose. No herds of Bison outside of isolated spots like Yellowstone. I'm familiar with modern catenary as I live near the northern part of the NEC (in RI). The poles are extremely sturdy tower type structures and nothing short of a brontosaurus would be able to topple one.......... "I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1 QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan Originally posted by idhull However, I do believe that cantenary and animals get along much better than 3rd rail and cantenary do. The only issues I can think of would be an animal somehow knocking over a cantenary pole, which is much less likely than an animal accidentally getting toasted on the 3rd rail. Yet again the forum logic outperforms mine [:I][:o)]. I would be curious as to what sort of animal found in North America could tear down a catenary pole (or any other utility pole for that matter)? I doubt even an adult male grizzly could accompli***hat....maybe an Bull African elephant could pull it off. Brings to mind a cheesy B-movie I caught on the SciFi channel involving a maneating bigfoot critter who tore down power and phone lines to isolate a bunch of coeds in a mountain cabin for late night snacking......... I don't believe he's talking about the animals tearing down the poles. More likely the potential that they can be electrocuted because they can touch the third rail and the nearest running rail at the same time. Probably the only animal that could do that with overhead wire is a giraffe. I was referring to something running into the pole and pushing it over, not pulling it down.
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