' Coulda been a contender

[Chris30]

Quote by MP173:

QUOTE: The SFEL would have been heavily dependent on TOFC/COFC (now intermodal) business. Low margin stuff. Could they have charge premium service for enough business to have a good ROE? Dont know, but without coal or a good base of boxcar business, it would have been tough.

A strong argument could be made that a good base of boxcar business in the mid 1970's would become a good base of container business by the mid 1990's. ELSF would be more or less an intermodal road and intermodal is booming. The point is wll taken has to how much of a profit a railroad can make on intermodal alone.

Another quote by MP173:

QUOTE: No doubt the ATSF was the superior route from SoCal to the Chicago market, but was EL superior between Chicago and the East Coast? Dont think so. But, the head start ATSF would have had might have been enough to get 'er done.

EL was considered to have the non-superior route of the eastern railroads because it seemed to miss every major city. For a railroad that would trying to move TOFC/COFC from coast to coast as quickly as possible, I would see this as a huge advantage. Perhaps that is one of the reasons that UPS made EL their prefered eastern railroad in the 70's. Big cities equal congestion.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong... Wouldn't a SF/EL merger have taken place before the creation of Conrail?? I think it would have. Perhaps a SF/EL merger would have established a route through the Chicago area before Conrail ever existed?

CC

[MP173]

CC:


Good points. I have studied EL from afar as I never really got to take a look at it closely. I have heard that it had a lessor route, basically because it missed the big markets. True, that would have been a HUGE advantage for intermodal.

Also, the point about intermodal being an enormous market now is very valid, but it wasnt so even 20 years ago. A little while ago there the Map of the Month had intermodal trains back in the 80's. There just were not that many at that time. Our economic structure has changed and we are now an importer of manufactured goods and the fuel situation dictates intermodal.

There is a fascinating book coming out soon, which was pre-reviewed by Don Phillips. I believe it is called the Men who Loved Trains and it is about the Conrail situation. I cannot wait to read it. I will buy it as soon as I know it is available.

The Conrail story is quite a story and personally, I hope the book is about 2000 pages long with tons of charts, financial stuff, maps, and antedotes. It would make a great summer read for me!

ed

[MP173]

It was really a shame that Mark's posts were deleted, but i can understand why he did it.

It sure seems that John Reed at ATSF kinda dropped the ball on several occasions. He just was perfectly content with his railroad or was not the man for the job at that time. The reason I say that is perhaps he was a fine railroader, but was he a visionary? Sure doesnt seem like it.

On the other hand...did BN drop the ball with their purchase of Frisco Lines instead of the MoPac? Sort of like the Portland Trail Blazers passing on Mike Jordan back in 1984. Not to say Frisco didnt provide routes that were good for the PRCoal, but it was MOPAC for darn sake!

I recently read a book on the modern history of the MoPac and they seemed light years ahead of the other railroads. UP must have woke up smiling when Frisco went to BN.

ed

[georgel]

A little off the subject,but are their any SFSP or SPSF painted engies left?

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by georgel

A little off the subject,but are their any SFSP or SPSF painted engies left?

There should still be some around that are patched.
SP 7556 was painted into MRL blue 327 December 2004
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mrl/mrl7556.jpg

At least the O.S. posts are still up.
Anyone who has joined the forum in the last 14 months should see the Chicago thread before it is gone-
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30704
Or the Big Boy thread-
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31139

[MP173]

I really miss Mark.

Nothing against the current editor, in fact, I believe he is moving in the right direction...but, I liked the direction Mark went with Trains. It may have been a bit too business orientated for the fan, but for me, as an "economic railfan", he was right on target.

I reread the Chicago thread...at least the first page. What a classic. I think I will go back and read it all today.

I still maintain one of the most valuable pieces of railroad property today is the Kansas City - Fort Wayne stretch of the NS. That one line solves the entire problem of Chicago and St. Louis. Unfortunately with single track CTC, there are capacity issues.

ed