Another train derailment in Muncie.....

[Modelcar]

....I don't know the details as of now, in fact I didn't even know of it until a few hours ago. I was at the depot location today which I believe is close to the site but really not sure yet.

Understand it has grain cars scattered on the track some on their sides....Of course I didn't see any train movements at the depot area today. Understand it is on the NS and......I believe it may be in the same area as where the Triple Crown train has been pulled off the rails twice in the last 2 years...I'm really not sure exactly where it is yet as I haven't been in that quesionable area to check as of yet.

[MP173]

Modelcar:

At some point, they are going to have to look at reducing that curve. Dont know where it is, I was in Muncie weekend before last, but was moving my son from BSU.

Next year, I will go take a look.

ed

[Modelcar]

ed....Yes, this last weekend was a big one here at certain locations {streets}, in Muncie with all the University student {and parents}, movements....I didn't see much of it since we know where not to go that weekend.
On the train derailment....I really don't know for sure if it really is at that curve we've talked about on here before that's been a bunch of trouble for Triple Crown. But it surely must be there or near it from what I know to this point. Area is a bit questionable so I chose not to go check this evening....Maybe tomorrow when I know a bit more.
If it really is at "that" curve it is kind of a mystery to me why so much is happening there as it seems to be a well cared for track and the alignment doesn't seem that bad....But I suppose if power is over used or possibly speed...I just don't know....We'll try to find out more by tomorrow.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

Modelcar:

At some point, they are going to have to look at reducing that curve. Dont know where it is, I was in Muncie weekend before last, but was moving my son from BSU.

Next year, I will go take a look.

ed

I was watching a train with my wife on this curve not too long ago. We were out, and a train was stopped on the curve, I told my wife we needed to back away from the tracks. She was bemused, as I have always been the one in the past to encourage her to get closer to trains.

Gabe

[Modelcar]

....And YES, the derailment IS at the same location {on the curve}, as the two that happened in 2004, etc....with the Triple Crown trains....Have not been to the site but large pic in today's Muncie StarPress shows the grain cars completely off the tracks and on their sides with the trucks on some ripped lose from the under carrage, etc....6 total covered hoppers {carrying Potash}, were {perhaps some still are}, scattered along the ROW and the rails ripped lose from the ties and ties displaced from their normal position on the ROW. So there is some mess to clean up.

This derailment did occur on the curve that has been causing trouble before....Cause had not been determined yet according to the paper. In the news pic. the cars are derailed mainly to the outside of the curve and in my eyes that is different from the Triple Crown units that were "pulled off the inside of the curve"....So that looks like something different to me.

This curve is part of the alignment that brings the line around in about a 180 degree turn and ups the elevation in doing so to clear over some city streets.

Sure seems to me the engineering dept. needs to take a serious look and find out if it is the design of the elevated curve or other factors involved to have the frequency of derailments happening as it is.

Just from the pictures in the paper today I'd guess the line would be reopened sometime today if it was not done so overnight....

[nanaimo73]

That's no way to treat Canadian hoppers !
http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060509/NEWS01/605090312/1002

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=south+gavin+street,+muncie&ll=40.196561,-85.361903&spn=0.00436,0.009484&t=h&om=0

[jeaton]

On the map-is the curve in question on the right leg of the wye?

[Modelcar]

....Jeaton......Yes, as it funnels traffic into Muncie to head south or it can go west on Frankton line....

[Modelcar]

namaimo73.....You pretty much have it tagged.....Former NKP line, now NS operations has several line directions in the Muncie area....This train was south bound from the Ft. Wayne area on NS...and most likely headed south out of Muncie. That would have brought it around the loop that changes the direction about 180 degrees at the same time rising in elevation to clear several city streets. On your image it would be {at the Wye}, taking the right turn back into Muncie and that area seems to be the trouble spot.

The left part of the Wye would as you say head northeast: Portland and points NE from here. That line seems to be a secondary route now...Not as much traffic as the other NS lines in and out of Muncie. They all are class 1's.

We just drove out {on east side of Muncie}, to be near the derailment site but without getting real close it is heavy covered with foliage and we didn't actually see any of the wreck site. The morning paper showed hoppers on their side and scattered about on the ROW....Load was Potash. Most of the cars in the pic seemed to be on the outside of the curve and that is a bit unusual as the Triple Crown cars have pulled off on the inside of the rising curve a few years ago...{Twice}.

Believe the line would be back open now....Cars may not be rerailed but imagine the track has been put back in shape for service.

I contend as I have observed the track in that general area, to look to be in good order of repair...Good ballast, etc....So something must be not quite right with the design of that track curvature...{Just my opinion}.

We'll watch to see if any news develops on any changes to the track in that area, etc....

That's about the scoop as we see it now.

One more thing...You might try the Muncie paper at: TheStarPress.com and see if they may have included the derailment site photo on that web site....{I just looked and they did...give it a try}.

[nanaimo73]

You had me confused for a second Quentin. When you say the right side of the wye, you mean from the southbound train's view, the "west" leg ? And the train's left turn (on the right side of this image) would take it towards Lima, now RJ Corman past Portland ?
I would guess lighter trains would be more likely to stringline and fall on the inside of the curve, while heavier trains would tend to roll the outside rail over.

[Modelcar]

Dale: Yes, from the engineer's seat I'm saying the right side of the Wye would lead back into Muncie.....In your image, the train was entering the area {from Ft. Wayne}, from the left side of the image and taking the right hand side of the Wye {which is where it derailed}, and that route comes back into Muncie crossing over several streets at elevation and then in the southcentral area of town the line splits and the train can go south or northwest....{Frankton line}, as it's called.
There would be a strict speed limit on this area....anywhere in Muncie I believe has a max. speed limit of 30 but this area must be a bit less than that...It really is a rather sharp curve.
Yes, a left turn at the Wye would head it towards Portland. {That is, if it was coming from the north, Ft. Wayne}.

[Modelcar]

Dale.....Were you able to pull up the derailment picture as published in our "TheStarPress" paper.....?

[nanaimo73]

Yes. I have never seen a solid sting of rail anchors like that before.
http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060509/NEWS01/605090312/1002

Your other paper also has some shots-
http://www.munciefreepress.com/news/story/2006/5/9/11742/05228

[Modelcar]

Dale.....And would you believe I've never seen that other web site {munciefreepress}, before either....Amazed at the collection of photos they have available in their gallery. I put that into my "favorites"....
Yes, as you can see in the photos, the rail is high quality heavy continous welded rail and the line seems to have a tremendous number of the "clips" between the rail and ties installation....and deep ballast. I've always thought the road bed looked to be in good shape through that area but still the derailment problem continues. Notice how these cars seem to have derailed on the outside of the turn...That seems unusual to me. Surely, any engineer knows not to come through there too fast....
Every time I am at the depot location..{depot is now Trail Head}, but the NS line is parallel to the trail at the depot for several hundred yards...The trains seem to roll past there at a reasonable speed....{the derailment spot is just a half mile or so east of the depot location}, and all seems to roll real smooth through that area.

[Modelcar]

...A follow up Dale...The "depot" I speak of can be seen in your image you sent...Follow left, {west}, back to you see Broadway st. and just to the west of that street the building with the black roof on it {south side of track}...is it's location. The ROW in fron of it is the ex. CSX and is now our Trail. The photo was made before the trail was developed because of several things I see...One is the depot...{now trail head}, has a real clay tile roof ...[light orange in color}, as it did when built and the image shows it when it still had the temp. building paper on it's roof to stop the leakage before it was completely renovated....and opened for use in 2004.

[nanaimo73]

I was looking for some Muncie TV Station websites, but I guess you guys just watch Indianapolis Stations. Cities are closer together in Indiana then out here.

BTW, is there much traffic on the NS line heading west to Lafayette ?

[Modelcar]

...Yes on the traffic...Quite a bit of covered hopper cars move from west to probably south. Seems to have more traffic at night. Seem to hear the horns during the night. That track is about a mile north of me a few miles west of Muncie as it heads toward Frankton, etc.....
TV station in Muncie is WIPB....Now associated with our university, Ball State. Started out via priviate ownership but later years has been worked into Ball State. It is a PBS station.
Yes, Indianapolis stations are our main stations in the area...but we get stations from many locations as most people either have cable or satelite service. We have all three networks and Fox stations in Indy plus some others. We're about 60 miles NE of Indy.
NS and CSX have main line routes in and out of muncie in several directions.
Pop. of Muncie is in low 70 thousands....Before manufacturing took a hit in the area these last 20 years or so the population was several thousands higher.

[nanaimo73]

We have about 75,000 here in Nanaimo.

Do you know anything about Portland ? NS sold the line past there to RJ Corman, but why did they want to serve Portland ? Is there a large factory, or a power plant there ?

How about Emporia, 7 miles south of Anderson ? I think CSX still goes there, but Conrail abandoned the ex NYC line south from there.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Dale.....And would you believe I've never seen that other web site {munciefreepress}, before either....Amazed at the collection of photos they have available in their gallery. I put that into my "favorites"....

Thanks much. Don't want to take this thread too far OT, but I'm not surprised you haven't heard of us. The Star Press refuses to do a story on us for some reason. ;)

Thanks for the compliment, too. We have, I think, well over 10,000 photos now. (and a lot more...) We were born on the 4th of July last year after I was 'downsized' at the local newspaper.

Anyway, just wanted to pop in and say thanks. (And to beg you to help spread the word about the site since the local media won't ;)

-K. Paul Mallasch - Publisher
http://www.kpaulmedia.com
http://www.MuncieFreePress.com

[Modelcar]

K. Paul Mallasch....Thanks for the additional info.....I'm glad I now have access to your site....much better coverage on the train derailment than thestarpress....and the photos....Really great.
I'll mention it when I have an opportunity. Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

We have about 75,000 here in Nanaimo.

Do you know anything about Portland ? NS sold the line past there to RJ Corman, but why did they want to serve Portland ? Is there a large factory, or a power plant there ?

.

I was reading in another forum, that NS recently re-tied that line and re configured the junction with the former PRR panhandle route at Redkey such that the straight thru switch configuration now veers west to Dunkirk on a stubb of the old PRR, to serve 100+ grain car trains from an elevator there, and the "switched" end is the track that continues on to Portland.

There is some industry in an industrial park on the southwest side of Portland, very near the line in question, but the large rail user in that immediate area would be the other large grain elevator, just across the state line in Fort Recovery, Ohio.

[Modelcar]

Dale...Glad AntiGates answered your inquiry re, area around Portland. And I really can't add anything of the Emporia area...Really have not been there.

[nanaimo73]

Thanks Anti, and Quentin. I had not thought about grain.

This would seem to be why Emporia has a line-
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=301536

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.005774,-85.636454&spn=0.004372,0.009484&t=k&om=0

[Modelcar]

Dale.....I've commented before on the subject of grain cars here on the NS line in from Frankfort. Every few days a cut of mostly covered hopper cars are set out on the siding here in west Muncie and they will be there for a day or sometimes a few days and then they are connected to a train and they are gone. I have never seen where they go. Which direction...It just seems as though one train drops them off and a day or so later they are connected to another train and they are gone. Have never heard any comment that makes sense as to what this move is all about.