Helping Amtrak Survive

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There is no profit in rail travel. Why take a train that could take 12 hours to get to your destination when flying will get you there in 4? The profit out look is far better for airlines then for rail. Rail travel is not convenent. The rails do not go to every city. The price for a train ticket is not cheaper then a air ticket. (Rail tickets can be more expensive and in most cases are.) I believe long distance rail travel is dieing and should be allowed to do so.
TIM A

I think passenger rail travel will return with improved on-time performance and expanded service routes. Rationale for this statement is: air pollution resulting from changes in climate and increased personal internal combustion vehicles is approaching dangerous levels. This week in the Fort Worth-Dallas metroplex, the weather forecasters warned of a Purple Level in air pollution. There remains only one higher level of significantly dangerous pollution. At least in this area, rail transportation, both commuter long-distance, appears to me to be the only equitable solution to attack the pollution problem. Furthermore, If Amtrak and regional rail transportation authorities would follow European models and increase service and expand routes AND aggresively advertise, I think the traveling public would respond favorably to safe, quiet, enjoyable, and scenic passenger rail transportation.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There is no profit in rail travel. Why take a train that could take 12 hours to get to your destination when flying will get you there in 4? The profit out look is far better for airlines then for rail. Rail travel is not convenent. The rails do not go to every city. The price for a train ticket is not cheaper then a air ticket. (Rail tickets can be more expensive and in most cases are.) I believe long distance rail travel is dieing and should be allowed to do so.
TIM A

I think passenger rail travel will return with improved on-time performance and expanded service routes. Rationale for this statement is: air pollution resulting from changes in climate and increased personal internal combustion vehicles is approaching dangerous levels. This week in the Fort Worth-Dallas metroplex, the weather forecasters warned of a Purple Level in air pollution. There remains only one higher level of significantly dangerous pollution. At least in this area, rail transportation, both commuter long-distance, appears to me to be the only equitable solution to attack the pollution problem. Furthermore, If Amtrak and regional rail transportation authorities would follow European models and increase service and expand routes AND aggresively advertise, I think the traveling public would respond favorably to safe, quiet, enjoyable, and scenic passenger rail transportation.

[Anonymous]

And for those who think the bus is an alternative, think again because Greyhound has been in bankruptcy court for years. It won't be long before rural America has no scheduled public transportation. For example, the little town I live in Texas has lost its once weekly scheduled bus service, along with a lot of other small rural towns along US Highways 377 and 281 from Fort Worth to San Antonio. The once weekly service wasn't adequate, now it don't exist.

Most of the airlines and buses actually turning a profit are the charters, traveling to major vacation locations with cherry picked routes. Providing a scheduled daily service to rural America is not profitable, even the airlines have almost eliminated small towns and cities.

[Anonymous]

And for those who think the bus is an alternative, think again because Greyhound has been in bankruptcy court for years. It won't be long before rural America has no scheduled public transportation. For example, the little town I live in Texas has lost its once weekly scheduled bus service, along with a lot of other small rural towns along US Highways 377 and 281 from Fort Worth to San Antonio. The once weekly service wasn't adequate, now it don't exist.

Most of the airlines and buses actually turning a profit are the charters, traveling to major vacation locations with cherry picked routes. Providing a scheduled daily service to rural America is not profitable, even the airlines have almost eliminated small towns and cities.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jamesedwbradley

I wonder why, if long-distance service is "dead", the trains are still full ! I'd like to see the LDSs survive, but Amtrak probably should concentrate (1) 300- to 500- mile corridors like many in Midwest, Northeaset, and Southwest, plus Chicago-St. Louis-K.C.-Omaha, Omaha-Denver, Denver-Salt Lake, Salt Lake-Las Vegas-L.A.) and (2) more car-carrier (Auto)-Trains. I don't understand why these have not been extended nationwide; they had great success in Europe. A good case can be made for NY-Florida servic, too. ( I hope a special case can be made to continue Empire Builder due to the severe weather it encounters - yet look, it's on-time record is fourth in nation ! )
It looks like a single transcon line plus corridors and the NEC is about the best we can expect to settle for with the current national climate, deficits, hunger & shelter needs, elderly, etc.
James E. Bradley Hawk Mountain Chapter N.R.H.S.

I agree- thirty some-odd yearsa ago there was daily service from Fort Worth-Dallas to Colorado Springs-Denver on the Fort Worth and Denvef City- Colorado &Southern.
At least during summer tourist season and winter ski season, wouldn't it be wonderful to drive your auto onto an Auto-Train, enjoy a fine meal in the diner, entartainment in the club car, a restful night's sleep, and wake up the next morning with the Rockies in view on the left side on the train? And there ought to be at least two trains- one day and the second overnight.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jamesedwbradley

I wonder why, if long-distance service is "dead", the trains are still full ! I'd like to see the LDSs survive, but Amtrak probably should concentrate (1) 300- to 500- mile corridors like many in Midwest, Northeaset, and Southwest, plus Chicago-St. Louis-K.C.-Omaha, Omaha-Denver, Denver-Salt Lake, Salt Lake-Las Vegas-L.A.) and (2) more car-carrier (Auto)-Trains. I don't understand why these have not been extended nationwide; they had great success in Europe. A good case can be made for NY-Florida servic, too. ( I hope a special case can be made to continue Empire Builder due to the severe weather it encounters - yet look, it's on-time record is fourth in nation ! )
It looks like a single transcon line plus corridors and the NEC is about the best we can expect to settle for with the current national climate, deficits, hunger & shelter needs, elderly, etc.
James E. Bradley Hawk Mountain Chapter N.R.H.S.

I agree- thirty some-odd yearsa ago there was daily service from Fort Worth-Dallas to Colorado Springs-Denver on the Fort Worth and Denvef City- Colorado &Southern.
At least during summer tourist season and winter ski season, wouldn't it be wonderful to drive your auto onto an Auto-Train, enjoy a fine meal in the diner, entartainment in the club car, a restful night's sleep, and wake up the next morning with the Rockies in view on the left side on the train? And there ought to be at least two trains- one day and the second overnight.

[Anonymous]

There are many good points in this forum. I just checked out the AMTRAK website. It seems to me that just looking at the numbers it is a black hole. The thing that bothered me most was the salaries and benefits. The total listed on the line was 1,667,293,000. AMTRAK employs about 22,000 people (a fact stated on the website). That's almost $76,000 per year per employee!! That is also asuming that everyone is full time. I wonder how top heavy the payrole is. Obviously the top is very over paid. Scrap the hole thing and start over. Look at abandoned lines that could easily convert to high speed. Start with the larger communities and rebuild the network. Get it out of the hands of government. Gov spending would have to jump start it, just like the gov jump started the trucking industry with the interstate highways. Just imagine the rail network in this country if it was matched to the highways. In the mean time maybe mixed passenger /freight is the answer, I understand the ups train takes priority over all. Hook up a passenger car. With all the delays with AMTRAK schedules, AMTRAK seems to be considered last in terms of when and how the trains move.

[Anonymous]

There are many good points in this forum. I just checked out the AMTRAK website. It seems to me that just looking at the numbers it is a black hole. The thing that bothered me most was the salaries and benefits. The total listed on the line was 1,667,293,000. AMTRAK employs about 22,000 people (a fact stated on the website). That's almost $76,000 per year per employee!! That is also asuming that everyone is full time. I wonder how top heavy the payrole is. Obviously the top is very over paid. Scrap the hole thing and start over. Look at abandoned lines that could easily convert to high speed. Start with the larger communities and rebuild the network. Get it out of the hands of government. Gov spending would have to jump start it, just like the gov jump started the trucking industry with the interstate highways. Just imagine the rail network in this country if it was matched to the highways. In the mean time maybe mixed passenger /freight is the answer, I understand the ups train takes priority over all. Hook up a passenger car. With all the delays with AMTRAK schedules, AMTRAK seems to be considered last in terms of when and how the trains move.

[Anonymous]

Since railroad employees had their own retirement fund before Social Security started, they are not part of Social Security. Therefore, Amtrak's retirement benefits of $280 million is significant. And when Amtrak was created, Amtrak has funded former private passenger railroad employees retirements too. Thus salaries were $1.387 billion, resulting in a salary reduction of $13,000 down to $63,000.

Since Amtrak has to deal with union employees keep these numbers in mind. A journeyman electrician earns similar. Truck drivers earn this number. Surely, Amtrak engineers, conductors, and mechanics should earn similar. However, I will agree this salary number appears too high for cooks, attendants, and tellers. On the long distance routes, Amtrak employees work away from home up to four days a week on the railroad. You are not going to find many employees with families working away from home, half a continent away, for minimum wage.

Also keep in mind most of Amtrak employees work base are in the northeast corridor, California, and Chicago: some of the most expensive places to live in America. It is one thing to live in Texas and look at these salaries, it is another thing to have to live in the New York City area and live on these salaries....

[Anonymous]

Since railroad employees had their own retirement fund before Social Security started, they are not part of Social Security. Therefore, Amtrak's retirement benefits of $280 million is significant. And when Amtrak was created, Amtrak has funded former private passenger railroad employees retirements too. Thus salaries were $1.387 billion, resulting in a salary reduction of $13,000 down to $63,000.

Since Amtrak has to deal with union employees keep these numbers in mind. A journeyman electrician earns similar. Truck drivers earn this number. Surely, Amtrak engineers, conductors, and mechanics should earn similar. However, I will agree this salary number appears too high for cooks, attendants, and tellers. On the long distance routes, Amtrak employees work away from home up to four days a week on the railroad. You are not going to find many employees with families working away from home, half a continent away, for minimum wage.

Also keep in mind most of Amtrak employees work base are in the northeast corridor, California, and Chicago: some of the most expensive places to live in America. It is one thing to live in Texas and look at these salaries, it is another thing to have to live in the New York City area and live on these salaries....

[Modelcar]

....Overall from start to present....The major airlines [as a whole], have not made money according to figures from several sources. They bleed money just as other types of people transport do. No guarantee their service will be making money in near future either.

[Modelcar]

....Overall from start to present....The major airlines [as a whole], have not made money according to figures from several sources. They bleed money just as other types of people transport do. No guarantee their service will be making money in near future either.

[Anonymous]

Amtrak does not leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think we do need high speed trains like in the northeast corridor.The congress and senators don`t give a damn about passenger service. But I do. If we want efficent passenger service for amtrak, we must change the inferstructure of the system and get people to run amtrak like it should, when main line railroad run their passenger service 50 years ago. It`s unfortune that some people would like to see passenger amtrak service to shut down completely. So if your not the solution for helping amtrak to survive, your mainly the part of the problem.

Reginald Smith

[Anonymous]

Amtrak does not leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think we do need high speed trains like in the northeast corridor.The congress and senators don`t give a damn about passenger service. But I do. If we want efficent passenger service for amtrak, we must change the inferstructure of the system and get people to run amtrak like it should, when main line railroad run their passenger service 50 years ago. It`s unfortune that some people would like to see passenger amtrak service to shut down completely. So if your not the solution for helping amtrak to survive, your mainly the part of the problem.

Reginald Smith

[kenneo]

Some good ideas here. Good job while I was gone.

Rode the Paris-London Chunnel Train while I was gone, and the only way you can tell if you are going fast (in excess of 150 MPH) is by counting the poles going by. Well, you can't, because you are going too fast! Missed the opening of the BR end of the high-speed by a couple of weeks, so was treated to the "old" route between the Chanel and Waterloo. Several times the roadbed was so rough that the suspension system bottomed out. Not a pleasant experience.

How about a discussion on overnight schedules using current routes and speeds? Think, perhaps, of the businessman in Chicago riding overnight to New Youk or Washington, doing his business during the day, and then riding back that night. The Broadway and 20th Century made the NY-Chicago run in 18 hours or less.

Businessmen will abandon air for rail. Between Seattle and Portland, Amtrak operates Talgo train sets with business class cars. Train is faster than air and faster than auto, connects directly to mass transit at each end. Business Class is full and sells for a 50% sur-charge. The entire service, which includes Talgo's and standard cars and operates between Vancouver, B.C. and Eugene, OR., operates with a $11 per passenger subsidy. The Talgo is our version of "high-speed", but it really does the curves here in hte Pacific North West. Average speed between Portland and Seattle is nearly 1/3 faster (3 hours

Same situation with the Capitols in California between the Bary Area and Sacramento.

Amtrak advertises these services on radio, TV and in the papers.

Don Clark and Tim Arguebright --- comments on the suggestion?

[kenneo]

Some good ideas here. Good job while I was gone.

Rode the Paris-London Chunnel Train while I was gone, and the only way you can tell if you are going fast (in excess of 150 MPH) is by counting the poles going by. Well, you can't, because you are going too fast! Missed the opening of the BR end of the high-speed by a couple of weeks, so was treated to the "old" route between the Chanel and Waterloo. Several times the roadbed was so rough that the suspension system bottomed out. Not a pleasant experience.

How about a discussion on overnight schedules using current routes and speeds? Think, perhaps, of the businessman in Chicago riding overnight to New Youk or Washington, doing his business during the day, and then riding back that night. The Broadway and 20th Century made the NY-Chicago run in 18 hours or less.

Businessmen will abandon air for rail. Between Seattle and Portland, Amtrak operates Talgo train sets with business class cars. Train is faster than air and faster than auto, connects directly to mass transit at each end. Business Class is full and sells for a 50% sur-charge. The entire service, which includes Talgo's and standard cars and operates between Vancouver, B.C. and Eugene, OR., operates with a $11 per passenger subsidy. The Talgo is our version of "high-speed", but it really does the curves here in hte Pacific North West. Average speed between Portland and Seattle is nearly 1/3 faster (3 hours

Same situation with the Capitols in California between the Bary Area and Sacramento.

Amtrak advertises these services on radio, TV and in the papers.

Don Clark and Tim Arguebright --- comments on the suggestion?