Lehigh Valley RR's Naples Branch

[LehighValleyman]

Have at it guys, tell me anything you know about the branch![:D][8D][:D]

[ajmiller]

It was in New York.

[LehighValleyman]

Well, duh! I already know that part, because I live in Middlesex NY the second to last town on the branch! i meant tell me anything about, what type of loco's were used, certain industires i don't know about, etc, not some thing like, * It was in New York* I am really intrested about it and want to find out more info about the branch line that backs my property![#wstupid][D)][banghead][}:)]

[PBenham]

The line was built as an independent feeder by the Middlesex Valley Railway in 1892. the Valley was acquired by the considerably better known "Valley " in 1895, lasting almost to the end of LV operations in upstate New York. In its later days it served a number of vineyards as well as agricultural supply customers. It was lightly built, so the heaviest steam power used were ten wheelers and after them, SW7s, SW8s or SW900ms (Pups to us valley types!)took over. They began abandoning it gradually, starting in 1968, with the Naples-Middlesex part going first. The rest followed later with none of it, save for some trackage in Geneva yard, lasting to the bitter end. For more check out a copy of "Upstate Odyssey-The Lehigh Valley in Western New York" by Mary Hamilton Dann, from Railroad Research Publications, Rochester NY

[adrianspeeder]

Pups rule!

Adrianspeeder

[LehighValleyman]

[:)][:p]Thanx guys, i never knew it abandoned in sectons, i thought it abandoned completely with the end of it '76, not started in 68! well, ok, now, if anybody has pic's more info, please tell, especially on the Npales turn table, if you guys know any info about it![:D][8D][:D][8D][:D] also, i thought i saw a C-420 in a picture of a small train going over the middlesex state route 245, did they use C-420's on the branch, and yes adian speeder, the Pups do rule, but the better breed of loco the C-628!!!!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha!

[LehighValleyman]

Just tryin to keep this topic hot for all u other peoples that know anything about the branch!!![:D]

[Anonymous]

The C628s were ill tempered beasts that rode worse than a C30-7 I'm told by former colleagues who ran them frequently. Glad that era was over by the time I started running out of Sayre...

LC

[wherezmyz]

Maps 96 and 97 in Richard C. Carpenter's book, A Railroad Atlas of the United States in 1946 Volume 2, shows the Naples branch contained the following stations (starting from Geneva, NY):
Pre-Emption
Reeds
Dixon
Stanley (LV interlocking tower VN and a PRR passenger station)
Gorham
West Gorham
Granger
Rushville
Valley View
Middlesex
West River
Naples

[LehighValleyman]

Limited clear u operated the system out of syare?!?! tell me about some of ur adventures and also why do u call the C-628s il tmepered beasts?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LehighValleyman

Limited clear u operated the system out of syare?!?! tell me about some of ur adventures and also why do u call the C-628s il tmepered beasts?

LVM -

Yes I have run trains out of Sayre. I was hired on as a Conrail man so I missed the Valley years. I did and do know many terrific prior rights LV guys I worked with over the years as well as many Erie, Lackawanna, EL, NYC, Pennsy and PC folks.

The C-628s were terrible riding units from everything I have heard. They rocked, rolled and were prone to derail with their big 6 axle trucks. That is one reason they were'nt allowed north of the Ithaca Yard on the lake. That was strictly a job for pups.

Anyhow, sorry, but I don't have any really good LV stories to share.

LC

[PBenham]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LehighValleyman

Limited clear u operated the system out of syare?!?! tell me about some of ur adventures and also why do u call the C-628s il tmepered beasts?

Well, for one thing, 633-641 were very heavy, even more than D&Hs (their 601-618) or LV 625-632. Monon had ordered them for anticipated coal traffic they didn't get, and they found they had no need for them. They returned them to Alco for credit on a group of C420s. The Valley picked them up quite inexpensively and then found they had a knack for splitting facing point switch frogs, a trick I saw 629 perform in Niagara Falls/Suspension Bridge yard while following 631into the yard. The lead truck went into the yard, while the trailing truck (which went first, since 629 was facing the other way) decided to stay on the PC Niagara Branch main. There was a loud bang when the traction motor power cables let go, disabling the unit as it derailed its lead truck. The YM was mighty[banghead][censored][|(][:(!] and the PC dispatcher, let me call him John Wayne, since-he-kinda-sounded-like-him, said: "well that's a fine pile of[censored] so,-d'-ya-wanna-have-the-crane-oh-[censored]-yeah-I'll-try-this." He wound up calling on FT2, with 3 TH&B GP7s, to cut off from their train and pull the LV train, NE-1, out of the interlocking and into the clear. As soon as 48th st. cleared the YM told me that i'd best leave, since it was going to get "warm" there! They also rode roughly on poor track, which the Valley had too much of. They tended to pitch and roll like a boat, rocking from side to side, at all but the slowest speeds. They were so heavily restricted that *** Whitehead banned them north by compass, west by timetable, of Sayre. But east of Sayre they were just as temperamental as could be! Ultimately, most if not all the Ex-Monons were in storage at Sayre after 1975, when they were satisfied the new U23Bs could fill in for the C628s. They were started back up by Conrail, which exiled them to Mingo Junction OH. They were popular there, since they could out pull PRR, and Reading C630s,PRRsC628s,C636s(ordered, but delivered to PC)and U25Cs,U30Cs,U33Cs and U36Cs, at a price-- they beat up the less than pristeen ex-PC trackage. Their 251Cs were their strong point, their trucks their weakest link,as they were spreading the units weight unevenly, with the middle axle bearing less weight than the end axles. This meant that the center motor tended to silp, and then short out completely and "kill"the unit in question, or just ground out the one motor, which in any case required the crew get off, go back and pu***he reset button, which was in one location on 625-632 and some where else (and less convenient to get at) on 633-641!

[LehighValleyman]

Ah, i c LC, ok but thanx for tellin me about the C-628's i thought they really didn't rock and roll like that, and i'm still confused about my eariler post,...about that if they did run C-420s on the branch. o well, i thought the C-628s were known for the power not the diffuculty of operating them.

[LehighValleyman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PBenham

QUOTE: Originally posted by LehighValleyman

Limited clear u operated the system out of syare?!?! tell me about some of ur adventures and also why do u call the C-628s il tmepered beasts?

Well, for one thing, 633-641 were very heavy, even more than D&Hs (their 601-618) or LV 625-632. Monon had ordered them for anticipated coal traffic they didn't get, and they found they had no need for them. They returned them to Alco for credit on a group of C420s. The Valley picked them up quite inexpensively and then found they had a knack for splitting facing point switch frogs, a trick I saw 629 perform in Niagara Falls/Suspension Bridge yard while following 631into the yard. The lead truck went into the yard, while the trailing truck (which went first, since 629 was facing the other way) decided to stay on the PC Niagara Branch main. There was a loud bang when the traction motor power cables let go, disabling the unit as it derailed its lead truck. The YM was mighty[banghead][censored][|(][:(!] and the PC dispatcher, let me call him John Wayne, since-he-kinda-sounded-like-him, said: "well that's a fine pile of[censored] so,-d'-ya-wanna-have-the-crane-oh-[censored]-yeah-I'll-try-this." He wound up calling on FT2, with 3 TH&B GP7s, to cut off from their train and pull the LV train, NE-1, out of the interlocking and into the clear. As soon as 48th st. cleared the YM told me that i'd best leave, since it was going to get "warm" there! They also rode roughly on poor track, which the Valley had too much of. They tended to pitch and roll like a boat, rocking from side to side, at all but the slowest speeds. They were so heavily restricted that *** Whitehead banned them north by compass, west by timetable, of Sayre. But east of Sayre they were just as temperamental as could be! Ultimately, most if not all the Ex-Monons were in storage at Sayre after 1975, when they were satisfied the new U23Bs could fill in for the C628s. They were started back up by Conrail, which exiled them to Mingo Junction OH. They were popular there, since they could out pull PRR, and Reading C630s,PRRsC628s,C636s(ordered, but delivered to PC)and U25Cs,U30Cs,U33Cs and U36Cs, at a price-- they beat up the less than pristeen ex-PC trackage. Their 251Cs were their strong point, their trucks their weakest link,as they were spreading the units weight unevenly, with the middle axle bearing less weight than the end axles. This meant that the center motor tended to silp, and then short out completely and "kill"the unit in question, or just ground out the one motor, which in any case required the crew get off, go back and pu***he reset button, which was in one location on 625-632 and some where else (and less convenient to get at) on 633-641!

yea, i thought the C-628s were beasts for the power they had o well, but just keeping this hot for all ya out their that need something to talk about!

[LehighValleyman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wherezmyz

Maps 96 and 97 in Richard C. Carpenter's book, A Railroad Atlas of the United States in 1946 Volume 2, shows the Naples branch contained the following stations (starting from Geneva, NY):
Pre-Emption
Reeds
Dixon
Stanley (LV interlocking tower VN and a PRR passenger station)
Gorham
West Gorham
Granger
Rushville
Valley View
Middlesex
West River
Naples

Were these accutal stations, or spots where the train stopped and dropped people off?

[wherezmyz]

All of them, except Geneva, are listed as non-passenger stations.

[poppyl]

If you are interested in researching the history of the line in a little more depth, try the Ontario County Historical Society, the LVRR Historical Museum in Shortsville, and the library in Naples.

I'm not questioning what you saw in the picture but the rail south of the interlocking was the original rail laid in the early 1870's and I doubt that it could safely take the weight of a 420. The rail north of the interlocking was upgraded in anticipation of developing an interchange with the PRR's Northern Division to haul coal to Sodus on the PRR and freight to Buffalo on the LV. As far as I know, that business never materialized.

Many folks believe that the branch was set up to serve Widmer's in Naples. If you research this, you will find that the main purposes were to haul table grapes to NYC and bring summer vacationers to Naples and the southern end of the lake. With the increased use of trucks and cars in the 1920's, carload traffic declined. The winery generated business (such as kosher wines for NYC) but nothing like before. Somewhat the same analogy can be drawn with the Bath and Hammondsport Railroad operating out of Hammondsport.

Poppyl

[Solomon]

I have a file cabinet drawer full of material on  the Naples Branch. What do you wish to know?

[ATSFGuy]

Did LV's Naples Branch have good connections with other roads and a good source of traffic?

Where did the Naples Branch start and end?

[Harrold]

Can you tell me about in and outbound shipments from Widmers in the late 40s and early 50@s? Was Van Dyne Oil a rail customer?

[Solomon]

I donated all of my files on the Lehigh Valley's Naples branch to the Naples Public Library covering the history of the line from beginning to end. What did you want to know about it? 

 

[HO Hobbyist]

LehighValleyman

Thanx guys, i never knew it abandoned in sectons, i thought it abandoned completely with the end of it '76, not started in 68! well, ok, now, if anybody has pic's more info, please tell, especially on the Npales turn table, if you guys know any info about it! also, i thought i saw a C-420 in a picture of a small train going over the middlesex state route 245, did they use C-420's on the branch, and yes adian speeder, the Pups do rule, but the better breed of loco the C-628!!!!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

 

Regarding the C628, the things were massive. Due to their sheer weight and how rough they were to the trackage, they were banned on the railroad west of Sayre, PA. Understandably, they were not (as far as I know) run on shortlines and rather were used on mainline freights. C420s however were used on shortlines, sometimes alone, but freqently with helpers.