When was HEP introduced...

[Supermicha]

...and which was the first locomotive that was equipped with it? Maybe the F40PH?

Thanks

[coborn35]

Im confused here. Doesnt HEP stand for Head End Power? Wouldt that just be a single loco?

[Supermicha]

Yes, you are right, HEP stands for Head End Power, and i would like to know which was the first locomotive that was equipped with it and didn´t had a steam boiler for heating...

[chad thomas]

Good question. I think I read somewhere that HEP was first used on a commuter line, something about the axle generators not keeping up because of how much time they were not moveing.

[ndbprr]

It may have its origins around 1900. Interurbans throughout the midwest didn't have steam heat and probably used electric heaters to heat the cars. HEP for those not familiar with it uses electric heaters in the cars not steam. The power is generated by the engine

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

It may have its origins around 1900. Interurbans throughout the midwest didn't have steam heat and probably used electric heaters to heat the cars. HEP for those not familiar with it uses electric heaters in the cars not steam. The power is generated by the engine

And to expand slightly on that - the electricity is generated either by a seperate genset or by the prime mover, which is kept revved up to maintain constant power to the train.

Before the widespread advent of locomotive generated HEP (and after steam ceased to be used for heating and cooling), older passenger cars were often modified with a generator to provide power to the rest of the train. This is still often the case for special excursions where the locomotive(s) may not have HEP capability.

It could probably be argued that early DE's, with their steam generators, were providing HEP, inasmuch as steam engines had provided the steam from what they were using for propulsion and the flash boilers used in the DEs had to replace that.

And look what I found on Trains.com - an article about HEP.

[Randy Stahl]

True , many older baggage cars had dynamo's in them .

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The earliest known instances of HEP were on FM's Speed Merchants (P12-42) which were part of lightweight train consists on NH and B&M in 1954.

In 1958, C&NW went to HEP for the re-equipped bi-level Peninsula and Flambeau 400's. This predated the HEP conversion of C&NW's suburban service.

[coborn35]

OOOOOO!! It literally means POWER as in electircity?!!
The NW5 had a steam generator and was the first diesel to do so I beleive.

[PBenham]

HEP first appeared (on a "steam" road) when the first Gallery cars went into service on C&NW,nearly fifty years ago! They put HEP generators in the steam generator compartments of GP7s(?),F7s, FP9s, E7s and E8s. The other Chicago commuter carriers followed suit, so by the 60's, Rock Island had FP7s, AB6s (both of 'em) E6s,E7s andE8s with HEP, The Milwaukee had, E8s and E9s. They all found that HEP AC and heat was more reliable and easier to deal with than steam, which required a boiler at both of the terminals to keep the trains from freezing up while they were laying over. C&NW also was using HEP on their inter-city Bi levels, as well. The notable exceptions: Burlington, which stuck with steam heat, since it used E5s,E7s,E8s and E9s from their inter-city (Zephyr) pool. These units got HEP'd when they were rebuilt in the mid 70's (but not the E5s-all but one having been scrapped- or the E7s). The South Shore and IC were electrified, and used M.U. equipment. The other operators, GM&O,NYC, PRR, and Wabash(N&W post 1964) all were trying to get rid of their limited Chicago commuter service. Only NYC succeeded!

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Supermicha

Yes, you are right, HEP stands for Head End Power, and i would like to know which was the first locomotive that was equipped with it and didn´t had a steam boiler for heating...

Not to change the subject but steam also provided Air Conditioning before HEP. [2c] ENJOY

[Dutchrailnut]

Steam to cars is not HEP however.
HEP stands for Hotel Electric Power on trains like the RAM TEE built in 1950's in Europe.
In USA it stoud for Headend Electric Power and yes two of NH light weight trains were first, second was C&NW on their commuter fleet.

[Anonymous]

I do know a little about CNW's bilevel cars - apparently the first ones (built by the St Louis Car Company) were originally fitted with dynamos under the floor, then all were converted to HEP later on (at around the same time as the cab cars were delivered). There's some more data on them at the Illinois Railway Museum website www.irm.org - they have two cars and a cab car.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Some of the confusion over HEP comes from the fact that several roads (B&M, CNJ, C&NW, maybe others) fitted s/g equipped GP7/9's in suburban service with small lighting generators in the nose to provide light for suburban coaches. This practice goes back to the steam era on some roads.

[timz]

Yeah, it depends what you mean by HEP. You probably mean HEP from the engine itself, not a baggage or other car just behind the engine-- so that probably rules out those UP 1930s streamliners. But HEP might mean power for lights, heat, and air-conditioning, or it might mean just power for lights.

[passengerfan]

When mentioning early HEP don't forget the PRR KEYSTONE dating back to June 1956. The KEYSTNE was a Budd train of so called tubular cars numbered 9601-9607 and a short kitchen power car numbered 9600 that supplied the power to the other cars. Each of the coaches seated 68 plus a 14 seat smoking lounge. The cars were only 11'11" from top of rail to roof. They were able to be coupled with conventional lightweight streamlined cars of 13'6" height. When operating with conventional lightweight cars they generally operated on the rear of trhe train so the steam heated cars could be coupled to the GG-1. The KEYSTONE cars operated at the rear of the corridor trains and ran between Washington and New York. Although never repeated or no follow up orders were forthcoming the Budd built train was generally considered a success and was a forerunner of Amtrak HEP equipped cars. Amtrak bought the KEYSTONE cars but I have never found any mention of them in Amtrak service. Last heard several were in dinner train service in Michigan.

[coborn35]

We have two former C&NW bilevels and we have to use our powerbox car with them if we want the lights on.

[mvlandsw]

I believe CNJ had some steam commuter engines which supplied electric power to the coaches from a steam powered turbo generator mounted on the rear of the tender.

[daveklepper]

Most steam commuter railroads had a light form of head-end power, providing power for lights only, with heating still by steam. The reason was the axle-driven generators and batteries of the usual downgraded coaches werenot adequate for the lighting load in stop-and-go suburban service. As a kid, I remember all the NY-area steam commuter trains had head-end lighting furnished by steam locomotives, the Putnam Division of the NYC, Erie, CNJ, with the possible exception of the NYC's West Shore.

The first Amtrak locomotives built new with headend power for all hotel services were the E-60's. The first trains were Amfleet I in the NECorridor.

[M636C]

Guys,

The first conventional trains with HEP generated by diesel generators in the USA are likely to have been the 1937 City of LA and City of SF trains, which had a full 85 ft car dedicated to supplying the HEP as well as three E2 units per train. Some builder's photos show the power vans coupled to the three units, since the HEP cars were equipped with EMD equipment.

During the 1940s these two trains were converted to axle generator power and steam heat to match the other trains in the UP and other fleets (SP, C&NW) that ran them. The HEP cars then were converted to baggage and or dormitory use.

Some of the earlier articulated trains, Zephyrs and Streamliners had HEP but they didn't consist of cars that could be broken up. So it's up to you if you think they count!

M636C

[PBenham]

As someone with more than a passing interest in PRR, I have to kick myself for forgetting the "Keystone"!

[petervonb]

I like the definition that says "Headend Electric Power". That seems clearest (though seldom used by anyone, including your average railroad crews).

Metro North's FL-9s used some really smoky diesel engines for the HEP that blew a rich black cloud out the side of the loco when they were fired up just before the trip started in Grand Central. Those were the days they ran diesel under Park Avenue, and even for some years after.

Their MK rebuilt FL-9s (I forget the designation) used the prime mover to generate HEP so they had to sit and roar at all the stops along the way.

Now they have all been retired from passenger duties, replaced by the Genesis locos with third rail power. At least under third rail they seem to do a better job keeping the lights and AC going across the millions of switch points in the Terminal than did the FL-9s under third rail power.