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[quote]QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper I left out heretofore many NY - Detroit trips on the Empire State Express when the Budd coaches had the paintings on each bulkhead and the food in the diner was excellent and the train usually close to on time even in the middle of WWII. I always wanted to ride the London and Port Stanley interurban which I saw from the coach window (at St, Thomas?) but never had the opportunity. The observation car, however, was restricted to 1st Class passengers and I always rode coach as a youngster. If I went overnight, it was either the Wolverine by coach or PRR's Red Arrow, which although a more round-about route, was approximately the same running time. The 44-seat coaches on the PRR were more comfortable with very generous sized restrooms. Of course, during the war, one occasionally had to sit in a modernized P-70, not nearly as comfortable, but the same kind of thing could happen on the NYC's Wolverine too. [/quote] Dave, I don't mean to start a thing but your parents must have told you the obs on The Empire State was restricted to keep you out of there. On the Empire State Express the baggage-club car was for the parlor passengers. The parlors were on the head end of the consist. The obs car was all lounge and for the coach folk. On later NYC daytime trains, the Chicago-Detroit service specificly, it was reversed. Coaches, full lounge, diner, sleeper as parlor,parlor obs car. Mitch
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