CSX Conductor

[jrw249]

I was thinking about going to the CSX conductor training school but i have some questions maybe someone can help me with. Road jobs can be up to 12 hours; do they normally take amost 12 hours and is the pay the same whether its 8 or 12 hours.i.e. Are you bascially paid for the trip no matter how long it takes? Are fuloughs common and is insurance covered while your furoughed? Thanks for your help.

[Anonymous]

I can answer only on my road (BNSF), so here goes. Road jobs can be more than 12hrs. You cannot move that train if you have been on duty for more than 12 unless instructed by the DS in an emergency situation. In that case the carrier is subject to some stiff fines. However, if you are DOL (dead on the law), you may not get relieved for awhile, or don't forget about time in the cab back to the terminal. I have been on duty for as many as 14hrs.
As far as running time, it depends on distance, speed, traffic, and how much priority your train has. I've sat outside of the yard until I went dead and tied it down and cabbed in.
Each run has a predetermined distance (now here is where I get a little shaky, I'm still relatively young on the RR) You figure (with our contract) runs 130 to 195 miles on a speed basis of 16.25 miles per hour. So if your run is for example 130 miles, you would go on O.T. after 8:00hrs. If your run is 150 miles, you would go on O.T. after 9:14hrs. Pretty confusing, thats if I even got it correct.
On my road furloughs are common, and insurance is covered for 3 or 4 mos (I can't remember which). However, if you have 7 compensated days (work in emergency) during a given month, your benefits will be extended.
JRW, this is a tough gig. Think it through. Believe me, as a new hire, there are alot of hardships. Remotes being implemented (they kill jobs, and as they say.....*** rolls down hill). I heard that CSX just purchased 75 RCO units from GE or CANAC. I am remote qualified and I hate it. I had no choice. Good luck on your decision.
Ken

[cabforward]

if you know anyone in the industry, talk wih them.. if there is a school nearby where r.r. training is done, talk with a teacher.. i did some research and found the home address and # of the local union rep.. called him and found out some things.. if yor are especially physically fit, that's good.. the stress will take it from you.. you may work a long shift, come home and a few hours later, you're on the road again, just like willie said.. the r.r. is a beautiful woman you can never, never refuse.. if she wants to go on a date, you take her, for as far and as long as she requests it..

if you're married, find another r.r. marriage and talk with them, esp. the wife, and get ready for an earful..

[Jackflash]

You only think you want to railroad, its not what its made out to be, find something else you would like to do.

[Anonymous]

Spoken like a true rail......I couldn't agree with you more!
Ken

[OldArmy94]

Yes, it is terrible. The pay, benefits, retirement--all an embarrassment.

C'mon, guys, I know the "foamers" irritate you but let's end the "woe is me" stuff, especially when you have a job that leaves you better off than 90% of the working population.

[cabforward]

i hope you are not saying being a part of an organization forfeits your right to state grievances against the org. or against the work in general.. who would you suggest someone with a gripe write to? i'm not talking about safety, pay, discrimination or any 'actionable' situation.. we're just talking here, o.k.? just people sitting on a park bench running our mouths about this-and-that.. is it wrong? this is a mutual forum.. that means what one says is readable by all.. you agree? fine, jump in and tell us why! you disagree? fine, jump in and tell us why! you want us to shut up? not so fine, go away!

people write about 'freedom of speech' in this forum everyday.. 'it's my right, scram!' or 'oh, be quiet, at least you're working!' why do you think this forum is here? it sure isn't to sing 'i've been working on the railroad'!

do we need opinion permits to speak here? do we need negative-opinion permits to speak? what do you recommend? is there a forum to be used just for griping?
there is always someone worse off than oneself.. should a man with no shoes not complain because paraplegics have no feet? should a deaf man not complain because there are people who have no sight or hearing? how does this work?

by comparison, there is always someone better-off or worse-off.. such is life.. and such is human nature for people to observe that others have more or less than they do.. you got a problem with that?

[BRAKIE]

As I said in times past railroadin' isn't for everyone.I suggest you try it and if you don't like it then quit.You will hear sour grapes in all jobs even in my line of work-folklift operator you hear those that belly ache and whine about the work and the union dues taken out of their check but love the union scale and benifits and these are the ones first in line for their paycheck fussing and cussing about the work and union on their way the bank.

So yes by all means try it.You just may love it.

BTw as I also stated times before if I was young again I would return to the rails in a heart beat.

[edblysard]

Jason, when was the last time you stood outside, in a tropical storm, like Allison, walking in front of a train shoving a 100 car switch cut, with a stick in you hand, tapping one rail, and using your foot to check the other one, which was under water, to make sure the rail was still there, for 2 miles, with hail stones and thunder bolts and 50 mph wind slamming you aroung?
And by the way, where you work, do you get fired routinely for simple rule infractions?
Are you talked down to, as if you are a slightly retarded child, by someone ten years younger than you? Do you get to eat your lunch at a table for a hour, or do you have 20 minutes to shovel your food down your throat, before your boss starts yelling at you?
Trust me, the life protrayed in magazines articles and stories dosnt exsist, you dont ride around waving at the girls, with the wind in your face, and money blowing out of your pocket. We pay two diffrent type of taxes, tier 1 and tier 2, RR retirement and income tax. If I manage to live long enought to retire, I will most likley receive less that you would under the socical security system. I can retire at 60, but only if I have 30 years service. Funny, everyone else only has to put in 20. The RR retirement is managed by the feds also, and you see what a great job they do.
By the way, any time you want to come and work at my cushy job, that leaves me better off than 90% of everyone else, come on down. I am the guy flat switching 250 cars per shift, in 90 to 100 degree, 90 to 95% humidity Houston summers, 8 hours a day, with a great big 20 minute lunch break. Bring you salt tablets, and a gallon or two of gatoraid, and a change of clothes, you dont want to sit in you car to go home till you've changed. Love every minute of it, but it is no way near what the stories say it is. You carry a 95 lb coupler knuckel 100 yards, and you will decide real quick if this is what you want to do for a living.
What irritates me is that the life style is romanticized by writers who, for the most part, never pulled a pin or kicked a car. The average citizen would have a fit with the unbeliveable amount of crap and abuse we have to put up with from management. Where you work, would you put up with you immediate supervisor telling you that you "are a stupid piece of s**t, not worth pi**ing on if you were on fire"? Or how about "go F*** yourself, get out of my face"?
I bet you would have the ACLU, and just about every other group you could think of sueing your company and your boss, but at a railroad, thats just the way it is.
Count on this, if we didnt love the job, we wouldn't work here, cause they really cant pay me enough to take that kind of abuse.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[cabforward]

i dont want to sound condescending or as if i want to hold your hand, but i am sorry that r.r.iing is placing much unneeded stress on top of an already dangerous and dirty job.. noone should have to tolerate such abuse, which is coming from others who speak only when they need to dump on someone.. he must have been a class 'a' bully in school, i've known those kind.. they never exploit equals or superiors..

i guess it woldn't prove anything, but i'd want to carry a pocket recorder and switch it on whenever a 'so-and-so' walks up to me..
legally, there may not be an infraction (against him), but it should make for interesting conversation among his co-workers and yours when the tape is played at an opportune time.. i have to wonder how womwn handle this..?

i never could follow the logic behind abuse of a subordinate, especially when both are handling duties at the same time.. should this supply greater strength or confidence in work habits? resignation that no raise is forthcoming?

it's just a fantasy, but kidnapping him at a moment when he could not dentify anyone (at night, everyone dressed in black?), stuffing him into a large burlap bag and tying it tight would do for starters.. find a train going a long way, preferably an express.. open an empty boxcar, toss him in then shut the door tight.. i'm sure it's wrong and maybe i'd get caught.. what i like to think is, to catch me, they got to find me first, then they got to prove it was me.. burlap doesn't show finger prints.. as for the 'son-of-a-son-of-a', a rag with chloroform will remove everything but his earliest recall of birth.. by the time he gets back to where he started and puts together what happened, he probably won't remember why it happened.. oh well, one must dream..

one serious question.. are these episodes worth tracking and filing with the union? there is never just one victim, neither is this ever the first time.. your colleagues must know his rep and other victims.. is a formal grievance feasibe, or is it just asking for more?

[Anonymous]

I would give it a chance. You will either love it or hate it. If you hate it, get out. I did it three times. Started as maintance of way for C&O in 1967. While I was working I would see these trains go by with the guys laid back. I thought that would be more enjoyable work. Went to work for N&W in 1968, as a brakeman. Worked to Peru, Ind. Back then we were governed by the 16 hr. law. Sometimes it would take darn near the 16 to go 183 miles. Also, ran to Lima, OH. sometimes do it in under 2 hrs. You can never tell. Its a good job, good pay, and alot of crap from the officials. Like I said you'll either love it or hate it. But you should give it a shot. You will hate yourself if you don't. Its not a good job if your married, unless you work in the yard at your home terminal all the time. If you work the road, it will definately put a strain on your marriage. Unless, she knows what to expect. Go for it! BPtrainwreck

[wabash1]

ive always loved the railroad there are those that complain but they are the ones that think they should be working 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. just like the old head guys. but what they dont understand is that those guys put their 25 years in to get that cushy job. now to get back to the original statement the road jobs are milage with overtime starting after a prescribed time. which is in the contract. ive been on duty as long as 18hrs yard jobs can get off in 8hrs but sometimes can work 12. yard jobs pay 8hrs reggular time and then 4 hrs overtime. road switcher are a differant thing again. the pay is good the hours are not bad . but that also depends on what you work. railroading is not for everyone. so if you want long hours from home very few days off and all the bs you can handle then go for it. otherwise go some where else

[Jackflash]

The BS from managment is "normal" its a way of life, if it ever disapered that would be something to go to the union about. Working for the railroad is about the as close as you can get
to being in the military and not actually enlisting, every day sorta reminds one of the first few weeks in military boot camp. Those who
have served know what I mean scum bag, some people
live and breathe for this kind of crap (both in the military and on the RR ) Watch out for "give
it a try, you can always quit" thats what I did,
then real soon got married, bought a house, had a
kid, now I have 26 plus years in, I wasnt there
long before I knew there was no getting out, short
of winning the lottery. Railroading is a love-hate relationship. About the big bucks that you
hear railroaders make, if you devoted the same
amount of time to most any other industrial job you would also make similar amounts of money
good luck and sleep on it. jackflash

[Anonymous]

If you do not or have not worked for the rr, keep it to yourself and keep your Kodak handy. Every once in awhile we get a foamer or two that hires out. And they are the first to go! It sure does look better through a lense than in real life.....Especially while you are at work the world passes by.

[edblysard]

Hi Cab,
Well, it like this. When you join the union, which, by the way, you have no real choice in, its a closed shop, you give up certain civil liberities, including those "rights" most workers assume are a part of all jobs. Because the UTU, BlE, and other unions all fall under the collective bargaining act, the short version means, if it aint in the contract, it dont exsist. Nothing in the contract make any reference to the way a trainmaster can, or can not speak to you, although it does say we, the T&E employees, may not be profane, bolsterious, or play pratical jokes while on duty. Now, trainmasters are not T&E(train and engine service) employees, so they are free to say and do most anything they like, and short of stomping their butt into the ground, you, the employee, have you hands tied by the contract.
Now the flip side is that the contract does allow us some things other workers do not get. We can expect new contract talks, in regards to wages and such, at a specific date, set forth in the contract, things of that nature.
But short of violating your civil rights, or outright physical assault, pretty much anything goes, the laws that govern other work places dont exsist at railroads.
Heres an example of how it works.
Say the yardmaster orders me to couple up a track, and spot it for ground air, (my job) and then orders me to lace up the air hoses, hook up the ground air and perform a inital terminal air test, (not my job, it is exclusivly a carmans job).
I refuse, because its not my job, nor is it in the switchmans contract to perform this duty.
The yardmanster tells me there isnt any carmen in the yard, (not true, but they are all busy)and UP is coming to pick up that track in a hour. I tell him great, but I still cant do this. He then tells me if I dont, he will have the trainmaster come speak to me. You allready know how that works. I tell him great, its been at least a hour since some one cussed at me, I feel sorta forgotten. So the trainmaster shows up, chews me out, threatens to fire me, blah blah blah. I still refuse. So he dosent fire me because I refused to violate the contract and lace up the cars, but he does fire me because I am being insubordinate,(a catch all rule, which means if you dont do what they tell you to do, they can fire you) or he fires me because, even though the store room has been out of battries for our lantrens for 2 days, my lantren isnt working, and it after dusk. So what happens now? The carrier holds an investigation, (read kangaroo court) and upholds my removal. I file a grievence through the UTU, who files a claim with the NLB that I was removed from service in violation of the contract. The carrier refuses the claim. Then we meet with the NLB, (national labor board) present our side, the carrier does the same. In this instance, the board ruled in my favor, ordered the carrier to reinstate me to my last duty, and pay me all my lost wages from the time I was removed from service to the present.
Sound like a load of bull manure? You bet. Heres the really silly part, and shows the mentality of the management at most railroads. While I was sitting at home, collecting my job insurance, watching Oprah chat, and Norm Abrahm building coffee tables on tv, the carrier had to fill my job with men off the extra board, often at the overtime rate of time and a half, for eight hours every day I was gone. So, in the end, not only did the carrier have to pay someone else time and a half, they ended up paying me at straight time for the work they paid overtime to another person to perform too! But the trainmaster walked around, telling everyone how he showed me who was boss, and he bets thats the last time I mess with him!!! Uh, duh....I get a paid vacation, sorta, they pay 2 &1/2 times the wages for the same amount of work, the track didnt get pulled that night, UP was PO'ed, and they won? Won what?
In their minds, they punished me. The only punishment I received was that my wife kept finding "honeydews" all around the house for me to finish.
There are times when you wonder what drives their business decisions. Some of their actions, like this, made no business sense at all, it cost the carrier in dual wages, less work, the guy off the extra board could have covered someone who really was on vacation, and it looks silly to all the employees. The only logical explaination for things like this to have happened is that the egos, and power wars that go on in such a closed society, along with the turf wars that you, as a ex cop know about, are more important to the management that the well being of the company. Yes, they cut off their noses to spite their faces. With such a free hand in the way they can treat their employees, its a wonder that any railroad has survived this long, with as many long time employees as there are. But I love the job, the longer I am here, the harder it becomes to imagine myself doing anything else. The old saw that your first wife is the railroad seems more true every year.
Hope this clears up some things for you, and yeah, burlap dosnt take prints very well, but I am a paitent son of a gun, and some time, some where, he will really need me to pull his nu*ts out of the fire. Revenge is a dish best served cold....
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Are all the class 1 railroads about the same to work for, or is there one considered best to work for? How about regional railroads? Are the hours better or worse, pay, labor management relations, etc? Are all railroads union? If there are non-union railroads, how are these to work for?

Thanks,

Greg

[jrw249]

All major class 1 railroads are union. Don't know which is the best to work for but I heard some unpleasant things about Norfolk Southern.

[BRAKIE]

As far as putting up with BS from the higher ups you have that in all jobs.There is always management types that like to show their authority regardless.Sometimes it may be a little peon of a line boss that has no real say or power but that position went to their pea brains and they act like they are the General Superintendent or own the company...Now if you think railroads has the monopoly on bad bosses,poor upper management and poor working conditions then I have a bridge for sale dirt cheap.

Yes I work union..Sometimes we must remind the powers that be of the working conditions,health risks,safety,overtime and union contract.This is done by filing a grievance with the company.

[cabforward]

i dont know if federal law is of any difference to a r.r. worker with a grievance, but with lengthy union contracts that are supposed to cover everything, it seems like a r.r. worker with a grievance, a witness and documented records of what happened and when should get a fair hearing and a better than even chance at a favorable decision or at least a heck of a compromise for all involved..?

[BRAKIE]

Indeed they should get a fair grievance hearing with the railroad company and the grievance committee men should be there to help the brother/sister that filed the grievance.If this is not the case then something is wrong and the brotherhood needs to address the problem and above all solve the problem..At this time I will not get my soap box out and will leave it at that..

[Anonymous]

Now that you've had a few days to reconsider, I hope you have elected to have a real life...that is, regular hours; weekends off; day work; time for a girlfriend/wife; hobbies. If you just NEED some form of railroading in your life, I suggest signing up with a daisy-picker excursion railroad for some "fun". If you go CSX or NS or whatever, You are signing your life away; it will belong to them, not you. I suggest you read the article in Trains several months ago about the brief, hectic career of a BNSF conductor. "I'm a railroader" doesn't get it at 3:00 in the morning in the cold, pouring-down rain while you're walking a 100 car train to replace an air hose or knuckle, and you haven't been home long enough for any thing but a shower and sack time in weeks, and the callers office won't let you off, and your knees and ankles are sore from walking on the grapefruit-sized ballast. Whew! I sure hope you think better of a CSX (or NS or BNSF or what ever, they are all the same...) big-time railroad career.

[Anonymous]

Hell, skeets. That is if he is even lucky enough to hold a road job......As NH he probably will be damned to the yard, making squat for cash at 75%................

[cabforward]

not that it matters, but i wouldnt mind being damned to the yard.. id be happy to work for any amt. of r.r. money, if the work was local.. being single, no dependents, apt. residence.. i could live like that..

[Anonymous]

Yard work is O.K. Some of these old heads can look at a switch list once and go and do their work. Pretty amazing! Me on the otherhand, not the best. I would rather be on the road........

[jrw249]

Still have not decided yet but thanks for all the comments and insights.

[cabforward]

you prefer to touch the stove after your mom tells you it's hot.. you touch the paint after seeing the sign that says 'wet paint'..

you want to work for the r.r. after a number of people say mgmt will squeeze
everything they can out of you, then drop you like a bad habit; you pay the union for years and they sell you out; you work umpteen years to put the 'extra board' behind you, then rcl rolls out and you're back on it as co-workers and those based elsewhere take your position with more seniority; creatures with big mouths and no sensitivity expose you to the latest vitriolic language they learned from their 'overhead'.. your days are mixed between long-hauls and yard work; you sometimes aren't sure who the guy is that's shaving his beard in your mirror; you can't remember the last conversation you had that wasn't confined to the terms, back, ahead, that'll do.. you visit a bank that requires i/d, and you look around for someone who should recognize you.. you're asked how a local election will turn-out, and you say, 'depends, ask the yardmaster'.. your main squeeze says her new stocking has a run, and you say, 'i'm not taking it, no way'.. it's a weird way to live, and if i could hustle a knuckle and accept endless days of odd hours and everything else not mentioned, i'd do it too..

[edblysard]

Ha Ha HA, ho ho ho, hee. hee hee...oh crap, I think I broke something...

[Anonymous]

Dont mess your career with your hobby. It will kill your hobby, regardless of what your hobby is.

[traisessive1]

I have looooved trains ever since i was a kid
being 16.....its what i long to do.....i read sooo many bad things...here in canada its prolly same.....but im willing to take it...i want to....my lifelong goal is to get on the throtle of a train.........i dotn vare if i die the moment after.......i just want to get behind the throttle

[ValleyX]

Bruce, How long did you work out of Bellevue, I worked out of there in the seventies, same place, probably some of the same people, into Peru and Lima.