If only Amtrak could have helped New Orleans

[robscaboose]

On CNN tonight, they talked about the lack of planes available to evacuate people from New Orleans before the big storm hit. "If we had a better passenger rail system", more people could have been efficiently evacuated from New Orleans.

[SchemerBob]

The should have offered a 50 or 75 percent discount on the trains to the next big city, like Orlando or Memphis or San Antonio. That would have got a lot of people out. They should have just sent the trains on through instead of stopping them.

Of course, I don't know how long the Sunset Limited is; so they probably wouldn't have very much room for many extra passengers. But, they could have had "standing room only" or allowed revenue seats in the lounge car...

[Wdlgln005]

THey woul;d need the combined City of New Orleans, Sunset & Crescent to do any good. Unfortunately, that's only 3 trains. THe Sunset may have been on it's way to California on it's triweekly schedule.

For a disaster like this I would try to get as many commuter cars like Metra's as soon as possible. Run them in shuttle service. Just load it up & go.

[coborn35]

I woulda givem free rides.

[robscaboose]

Someone on the IC RR list reported that Amtrak sent 20 cars to MaComb(sp) MS for storage. a 20 car train could have transported over 1,000 people & then gone back for more. It could have given Amtrak a much needed boost in PR & good will around the nation.

[Junctionfan]

If they had initiated a mandatory evacuation a day before they did, they could have scrambled a bunch of Commuter and Amtrak specials from Chicago and effectively evacuated all 100,000 folk. They might even have been able to use a bunch of bilevel autoracks for "auto train service" to free up the highways.

If I was the federal government, I would have phoned up the CEOs of the class 1s, Metra and Amtrak and asked them to help out in that endevour; worry about compensation after. Muster a whole bunch of supplies and MASH units by Amtrak motive power and givin passenger train speed limits.

[ottergoose]

How could the passenger rail system in New Orleans that normally handles a few hundred people every day support as many people as the interstate highway system? Besides, I'm under the impression that most of the people who stayed in New Orleans would have stayed there regardless of how many trains/planes/barges/helicopters/go-karts would have been available for their use.

[dehusman]

Just remember that the flood gates were closed across the railroad tracks the day before the hurricane hit. Once that happens all rail traffic is shut down in and out of the city.

Dave H.

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ottergoose

How could the passenger rail system in New Orleans that normally handles a few hundred people every day support as many people as the interstate highway system? Besides, I'm under the impression that most of the people who stayed in New Orleans would have stayed there regardless of how many trains/planes/barges/helicopters/go-karts would have been available for their use.

If there are 6 lines, there are six routes. Who says during an emergency like that, folk can be bussed to yards and sidings and loaded up. Amtrak trains could have then been sent out one after the other like a whole bunch of freight trains that the dispatcher is stacking.

[oltmannd]

It could have been done, but there would have had to be a plan worked out in advance to do it. Maybe there will be one, now, for the next time and place.

You'd probably need 48 hours lead time to start such a plan. You'd need about 24 hours to gather the equipment, most likely from the NE and Chicago, and another 24 hours to get it to the effected location. Then, you'd need another whole day to do the evacuation.

Did we know on Thursday that an evacuation was needed on Sunday?

If you could scrounge up 10, 18 car trains of gallery cars, they'd hold about 2500 people each. You have to take them about one crew district inland and then shuttle back for more. Doubtful you could make more than 3 round trips in a 24 hour peroid, but that would move 75,000 people out - worth 1-1/2 lanes of highway.

The next question would be where do you put all those people when the get to destination?

[jchnhtfd]

It would have been nice, I quite agree. However, as pointed out above, you would either have to have advance notice of some considerable time (24 hours? I'll bet 48 to 72 would be more like it). But even then, where would you get the equipment? Amtrak is already running pretty much everything that will pass inspection, and doesn't have all that much equipment anyway (except NEC, and a lot of that is electric) and the other major cities which have had the foresight to have commuter service also don't have a whole lot of extra equipment to spare. Don's arithmetic is really sound (as usual!) but I really wonder if there are 180 spare gallery cars in the whole nation. Sad but true...

Now if New Orleans had commuter rail itself... but laughing that hard makes my sides hurt.

[Junctionfan]

You put the folk into tent cities as close as safely possible. I don't understand authorities are trying to located folk into actual cities in houses and hotels and shelters? It's just not feasible as well as it sounds-way too many people plus it takes away resources that that city may need.

[dharmon]

The only way Amtrak could have helped this, would be to drop the cars on top of the leavees to help stop the water.

[chad thomas]

Mabee they should have used the shackle car fleet. I understand they have much more capacity then Amtrak cars and there are like 1000 of them available. Then all they would need to do is commendere a few freight locos and round up some crew.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

It would have been nice, I quite agree. However, as pointed out above, you would either have to have advance notice of some considerable time (24 hours? I'll bet 48 to 72 would be more like it). But even then, where would you get the equipment? Amtrak is already running pretty much everything that will pass inspection, and doesn't have all that much equipment anyway (except NEC, and a lot of that is electric) and the other major cities which have had the foresight to have commuter service also don't have a whole lot of extra equipment to spare. Don's arithmetic is really sound (as usual!) but I really wonder if there are 180 spare gallery cars in the whole nation. Sad but true...

Now if New Orleans had commuter rail itself... but laughing that hard makes my sides hurt.

You could scrounge up quite a few cars, if needed. Just lop a car or two off existing commuter trains and ask the undulgence of the regulars to stand or shift their commute for a week.

You also could try to reduce the shop count by out shopping the marginally defective cars and/or asking for an extension FRA inspections

[DaveBr]

After riding Amtrak from Oregon to Van Nuys yesterday,I think Amtrak needs more help then New Orleans. Dave Br

[BaltACD]

This discussion is so far beyond the relm of reality so as to defy discription.

As dehusman stated the flood gates were closed on Sunday....that stops all rail traffic for New Orleans. The railroad crews have their own family interests to protect as their first priority. The railroads priority is to get as much of their own traffic and equipment out of town as possible. The capacity of the rail lines out of New Orleans is limited and unable to handle much more traffic, passenger or freight, than the current normal volume. Amtrak does not have sufficient equipment to properly equip their regular complement of trains, let alone extra equipment, power and crews to perform an evacuation under duress.

[robscaboose]

My point is that we let our national rail passenger service / capacity go to hell in a hand basket & now we have this terrible disaster & one of the potentially most efficeint systems for moving people doesn't have the resources to help. I hope that Amtrak can do what ever it can, even if some regular runs are annulled to help these poor people. Then I hope this country wakes up & sees the need for passenger rail as a vital part of our transportation system.

Rob

[Anonymous]

Three years ago i worked for the kcs railroad from meridian ms to vicksburg. meridian and vicksburg are about 140 miles from the coast. that railroad is in shut down mode now. all communication towers are out and there are thousands of trees down on the mainline. my buddy said that it is going to take about a month to get the railroad open again. I can only assume that the railroads around new orleans are in worst shape than the old AV mainline railroad. that might have something to do with the federal government not using amtrack to evacuate the refugees.

[PBenham]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

After riding Amtrak from Oregon to Van Nuys yesterday,I think Amtrak needs more help then New Orleans. Dave Br

[V]Considering what happened there, this is absolutely out of line! [V][V][V]There are Millions homeless and only god knows how many are dead, this statement is unspeakable.[:(!] If I were you, I would avoid anyone with relatives/friends where Katrina struck.

[Anonymous]

You can thank the government and the railroads for putting Amtrak in its current condition.

We need a viable passenger rail service in this country. Amtrak could be the start but it need proper funding not the few cents (compared to the vast amounts given to air and highway travel) it gets now.

Back in the 40s, the railroads could have help evacuate New Orleans. Now their is a shortage of passenger eqiupment to even run Amtrak. For that you can think stupid drivers who pull onto the tracks in front of a coming Amtrak train, and congress too for not giving Amtrak the proper funding to repair damaged cars.

[DPD1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

It could have been done, but there would have had to be a plan worked out in advance to do it. Maybe there will be one, now, for the next time and place.

You'd probably need 48 hours lead time to start such a plan. You'd need about 24 hours to gather the equipment, most likely from the NE and Chicago, and another 24 hours to get it to the effected location. Then, you'd need another whole day to do the evacuation.

Normally, I try not to be critical in situations like this... But from what I've seen on TV, they seem to have been lacking in plans for a lot more then just trains. I watched the head of FEMA give a speech this morning, and the vibe that I got from it was that they are basically clueless how to handle all this. I started to get kind of angry when you see these thousands of people wondering around on a freeway overpass, and nobody is doing a thing to tell them where to go, or what to do... Nobody is giving them any water or food... I mean, they've known for decades this would happen if a hurricane hit the city... Then when it does, they act like it's a big surprise. How hard can it be to get somebody on a PA to at least try and organize things and tell people where to go, or what the plan is? Or take a helicopter with some water and drop it down on the freeway so they can at least get a drink. Tons of supplies should have been kept up in warehouses outside the city for something like this, and then they should have had a plan to distribute the stuff immediately. In stead, all you get is a bunch of excuses and bureaucracy. Sometimes I wonder why we pay taxes for all this stuff.

Dave
-DPD Productions - Featuring the NEW TrainTenna LP Gain RR Scanner Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

[daveklepper]

Remember a while back on several threads I said that Amtrak should be part of a national ground transportation system, with sufficient equipment, inlcuding economy sleepers, to handle stuff like this.

What I have read on Yahoo says that the 20 cars moved to safety are housing displaced and homeless Amtrak employees. I doubt that the seven locomotive and 20 car resuce movement ran empty. Probably it handled all the Amtrak personel that could be encouraged to board it and in that respect it did its job. (Possibly other rail people as well!) I thank the Eternal that as far as we know no rail passenger and no rail employee was injured seriously or lost a life in this tragedy.

Remember the World Trade Center? PATH did not immediately invite anyone and everyone to board the last train after the towers were hit. They did safely remove all but one five car train (empty) and all passengers that were already in the station or on the trains, including trains headed for the WTC, which ran through the WTC non stop, back to New Jersey, and then to the uptown Manhattan line. Again zero loss of life or injuries..