Is the Rails to Trails Movement part of a evil conspercy

[Anonymous]

Believe or not I believe that the rail-banking and rails to trails movement is part of a conspiracy to ensure a monopoly by one or two of the Class one railroads to make sure that upstart wont get a hold of enough track to start a class one.
Case in point---CSX Bought up the Western Maryland which though they never realy needed it to downgrade and tear up between Cumberland and Pittsburgh. Not its being converted into a rail trail.
The D&H/Canadian Pacific just tore up there “Albany Main” to “Rail Bank” it despite offers to Run a steam train on it. If they let a steam train run it to Voorheesville industrial park the customers would have 3 railroads to choose from instead of 2 (CSX & CP)
Much of the Erie Lackawanna is now being converted into bike trails.
What we are doing is not really “Rail Banking” what we are doing is tearing up viable rail that could be mothballed or have the STB do a forced sale to a regional railroad to ensure competition.
To relay new track can run from 500,000 to 5,000,000 a mile.
By tearing up the track the railroads know that it is irreplaceable and shut out any upstarts.
Both CSX and NS have put holds on selling branches to short lines unless they know for certain that the sale wont turn around and bite them in the butt by having a new regional that will be in competition instead of a non union slave railroad

[Anonymous]

Not sure I buy that angle, but there are conspiracies (sp) in Peoria for rail to trail

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=2&TOPIC_ID=42614

As an interesting side note, the railroad they removed in the issue is still fighting, the new carrier just derailed on the only access to the soon to be bike trail, must be a plot? Now the line is blocked.

Here are some pictures of their early changes for the rail to trail

http://www.wpgrr.com/CIRY/CIRY.html [:(!][xx(][:0]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peterson6868

Believe or not I believe that the rail-banking and rails to trails movement is part of a conspiracy to ensure a monopoly by one or two of the Class one railroads to make sure that upstart wont get a hold of enough track to start a class one.
Case in point---CSX Bought up the Western Maryland which though they never realy needed it to downgrade and tear up between Cumberland and Pittsburgh. Not its being converted into a rail trail.
The D&H/Canadian Pacific just tore up there “Albany Main” to “Rail Bank” it despite offers to Run a steam train on it. If they let a steam train run it to Voorheesville industrial park the customers would have 3 railroads to choose from instead of 2 (CSX & CP)
Much of the Erie Lackawanna is now being converted into bike trails.
What we are doing is not really “Rail Banking” what we are doing is tearing up viable rail that could be mothballed or have the STB do a forced sale to a regional railroad to ensure competition.
To relay new track can run from 500,000 to 5,000,000 a mile.
By tearing up the track the railroads know that it is irreplaceable and shut out any upstarts.
Both CSX and NS have put holds on selling branches to short lines unless they know for certain that the sale wont turn around and bite them in the butt by having a new regional that will be in competition instead of a non union slave railroad

Well, just my uninformed opinion, of course, but then so was yours. But I think that aquisition based on predetermined abandonment is a very real part of the merger strategy.

Buying your competitor then shutting them down is a part of the American success story, so why should railroads be any different? Where I would take exception to such happenings would be if such an outfit then went soliciting for a public dole to help them with capacity constraints.

I suspect the removal of the rails is strictly a dollars and cents thing, scrap steel is too valuable to let rust away.

And the 'rails to trails' groups? are they part of the 'problem'? Most of them whom I've ever encountered seemed neither well funded enough nor organized enough to be part of any railroads master plan.

Mostly I think they do it out of personal concern for their shrinking heritage, resume padding, and in a few rare instances, as a job, where they manage to become a salaried emplyee of the non profit org they set up to control the donations to the cause.

They might be dupes or stooges to a more sinister industrial conspiracy, but I doub't they are material accomplices.

Now, the "wetland marsh restoration" people? That 's another issue entirely. I suspect their paychecks come directly from Area 51 [;)]

[chad thomas]

Yes, It is an evil conspiracy to keep Amish people from possibly having access to team tracks. For if this happened it would be possible for an Amish LTL company to go into business hauling household goods and go into direct competition with the class 1s. The class ones see this as a threat to there very existance and will do anything they can (including conspireing) to prevent that from happening.[(-D]

Seriously.....If these lines are so important why did the class ones give up on them? If there was traffic to justify these lines there would be companys willing to operate them. But sometimes the reason they are not is some lines are not worth saveing.

[Anonymous]

I tendd to agree with Peterson. Or it could be the pert of the trucking industry also.

[tree68]

Probably a smidgen of truth to all the angles.

More than a few start-ups in the tech sector have been absorbed into the big guys, and their product never heard of again. Then again, sometimes the product emerges with the new owner's label on it.

It's long been an acknowledged factor that in many areas railroads really overbuilt infrastructure/track mileage, then struggled to survive. Some didn't.

Parts of the New York, Ontario & Western are now highway. Really hard to get that mileage back...

So while I doubt that there is a widespread Rails-to-Trails conspiracy, it's possible that some efforts to that end have at least tacit railroad support.

[Anonymous]

At least a new use is being found for the ROW's that would otherwise disappear:

http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_22361315.shtml
http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_22358174.shtml

[Junctionfan]

Governments should keep the ROWs as possible reuseable rail lines for future purposes either for freight traffic corridor relief arteries or mass transit development when needed but then again, that is what the trails are.......temperary paved paths as opposed to dirt/ballast trails left from the railroads. It's alot better then letting folk build structures on it, reducing the chance for rail redevelopment.

As for conspiracy, you need alot more evidence before folk take it seriously.

[Anonymous]

I think it is a hugh mistake to tear up track. The cost to relay it is one reason but considering it as a possible derail route, or a route that Amtrak could use are others. Also their could be a military use for it.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Keep in mind that keeping track in place can be costly. If there are no traffic sources on the route, the line generates expenses but no income. Restoring a long idle line to operating condition can also cost a lot of money. While NYS&W managed to do something like this in order to operate double-stacks, it wasn't absolutely necessary for them to do it since they already had trackage rights on the Southern Tier route around their existing but all-but-abandoned tracks.

[chad thomas]

And don't forget tax. taxes are much higher on a active line than on a trail.

[Chris30]

Conspiracy?? [(-D][(-D]

This nations railroad network was overbuilt. Before the 1920's most freight and passengers traveled by rail. The railroads built tracks everywhere to serve these needs. As auto/trucks and roads improved, more freight started to go by truck and people by car. The national highway system and airplanes further reduced the railroads once vital importance to this country. Most railroads had a lot of excess track they could not get rid of until the Staggers Act. Track that once made somebody money was nothing more than a rusty, weed covered expense - the railroads still owned the land and had to pay taxes.

Rails-to-Trails conspiracy... Explain these Chicago area examples:
Chicago, Aurora & Elgin interurban - abandoned in the early 1960's (passenger service ended in 1957). Reason the for abandonment: Lost Chicago connection when the West Side (now Eisenhower) Expressway was built on the CAE right-of-way! In 1971 the CAE ROW (Dupage county) became the The Illinois Prarie Path. It is the first rails-to-trails project in this country. The main line from @Bellwood to Wheaton ran parallel to the CNW. What "upstart" would want this property??

Chicago Great Western-Bought by the CNW in 1968. Reason: duplicate trackage between Chicago & Omaha / CNW wanted the KC to Minn line. The CNW took the traffic and abandoned almost all of the CGW Chicago to Omaha main line. The CGW in the Chicago area is now the Great Western trail. If you have ever been on this trail, you can be 20 miles outside of Chicago and not even know you are in the middle of the western suburbs! It is very isolated and was even more isolated 35 years ago. What upstart wants a rolling ROW with a decrepit tunnel (Winston/NW IL) that has no use other than a Chicago connection? Another conspiracy? Why doesn't the IL Rail Net (@Rockford, IL) buy the right-of-way? The CGW tracks are still in place at Byron, IL.
By the way, what did the CNW do with all that nice welded rail? If the CNW only knew in 1968 what it needed in the late 1970's/early 80's to rebuild the old Cowboy line for coal traffic.

Lay off the Sci-FI Channel Scully...
CC

[Murphy Siding]

Chris30: Interesting post. Thanks

[Modelcar]

....In general, Trail Associations come about when a near by railroad is abandoned. No longer any rail traffic and in most cases the track torn out...Then they go to bat to try to acquire that ROW for the purpose of constructing a trail.
That was the scenario that accomplished our paved 30 plus miles {and being extended}, Greenway Trail through Muncie....and a beauty it is and widely used as well....A real asset to the community...The ROW remains in place...which it of course would not have if no trail would have been constructed on it....No rail traffic was displaced....It was abandoned first by the CSX RR.

[CShaveRR]

Part of the reason the Soo Line got the Milwaukee Road back in the 80s is that CNW made public its intention to abandon a lot of the duplicate trackage when it bought them (everybody assumed that CNW would get the MILW then--it had the higher bid. And CNW went so far as to incorporate alpha codes for MILW locations into its manifest plans.)

I don't recall a backlash of anti-SOO sentiment from the Rails-to-trails folks (I hapen to be one, too) when CNW didn't get its way.

[mloik]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chris30

Conspiracy?? [(-D][(-D]

This nations railroad network was overbuilt. Before the 1920's most freight and passengers traveled by rail. The railroads built tracks everywhere to serve these needs. As auto/trucks and roads improved, more freight started to go by truck and people by car. The national highway system and airplanes further reduced the railroads once vital importance to this country. Most railroads had a lot of excess track they could not get rid of until the Staggers Act. Track that once made somebody money was nothing more than a rusty, weed covered expense - the railroads still owned the land and had to pay taxes.

Rails-to-Trails conspiracy... Explain these Chicago area examples:
Chicago, Aurora & Elgin interurban - abandoned in the early 1960's (passenger service ended in 1957). Reason the for abandonment: Lost Chicago connection when the West Side (now Eisenhower) Expressway was built on the CAE right-of-way! In 1971 the CAE ROW (Dupage county) became the The Illinois Prarie Path. It is the first rails-to-trails project in this country. The main line from @Bellwood to Wheaton ran parallel to the CNW. What "upstart" would want this property??

Chicago Great Western-Bought by the CNW in 1968. Reason: duplicate trackage between Chicago & Omaha / CNW wanted the KC to Minn line. The CNW took the traffic and abandoned almost all of the CGW Chicago to Omaha main line. The CGW in the Chicago area is now the Great Western trail. If you have ever been on this trail, you can be 20 miles outside of Chicago and not even know you are in the middle of the western suburbs! It is very isolated and was even more isolated 35 years ago. What upstart wants a rolling ROW with a decrepit tunnel (Winston/NW IL) that has no use other than a Chicago connection? Another conspiracy? Why doesn't the IL Rail Net (@Rockford, IL) buy the right-of-way? The CGW tracks are still in place at Byron, IL.
By the way, what did the CNW do with all that nice welded rail? If the CNW only knew in 1968 what it needed in the late 1970's/early 80's to rebuild the old Cowboy line for coal traffic.

Lay off the Sci-FI Channel Scully...
CC

Ditto. And, Scully was hot.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mloik

Ditto. And, Scully was hot.

Roger that!!! [:p] When I was younger, well not so old, I often thought about her and me catching [alien]'s

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