This might be a real LU-LU

[CShaveRR]

Does anyone else here remember the all-door box cars, AAR Mechanical Designation LU?

They were fairly popular around the 1970s, but now are all but extinct. I remember them well, but my friend Sarah would appreciate seeing a picture of one, if anyone can either post one or point us to one.

At any rate, I have a couple of questions:

First, what were the floors of these cars like? Were they wooden, and did they have some sort of provision for anchoring the doors into position in the floor, by the edges?

The reason I was asking was that tonight we classified a welded-rail train--about 30 flat cars--with all of the cars numbered in the ADBF 300 series (ADBF is the Adrian & Blissfield Railroad, a line in Michigan that probably owns more cars than it has track to put them on). These cars looked like cut-down bulkhead flat cars to me. However, when looking at the Equipment Registers or UMLER, they show as being of AAR Mechanical Designation LU! And it occurred to me that an LU car, cut down to the floor, might look like a bulkhead flat car would have--after all, they had no solid walls, just doors along the sides.

Hence the second question--does anyone know whether the ADBF 300-series cars (32 of them, numbers 300-331) were converted from old LUs? I will try other sources for this information, and post it on this thread if I find anything out.

[kenneo]

Carl

All-Door cars were, esentially, bulkhead flats with a roof and plug doors for sides. Most were owned by Evans Products of Corvallis, OR, and leased to various folks. It has been a very long time since I was last in one, but I seem to remember that the floors could be either wood decking or nailable steel. Most had tiedowns on the floor next to the door sill and these tended to be equipped with air bags. I only remember seeing these cars as CSD-145 Assigned Service - Specific shipper at a specific point.

Your thought that these cars you saw were rebuilt (cut down) LU's probably is correct.

[ericsp]

Carl, have a look at these pages about McCloud River RR and Ashley, Drew and Northern LU boxcars.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Carl, have a look at this page about McCloud River RR LUs.

That is a good web page![8D][8D][8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Carl, have a look at these pages about McCloud River RR and Ashley, Drew and Northern LU boxcars.

You can learn something new everyday. Thanks for the links. [;)]

[CShaveRR]

Thanks for the photo links--it's pretty easy to see from some of the pictures that the all-door cars were built like bulkhead flat cars, with a roof and doors suspended from that roof.

And I just got confirmation--at least by one example--that the welded-rail cars are former LUs. And I suspect that, as a result of this contact, the mislabeling of these cars in UMLER and the Equipment Registers might soon be rectified. Although it feels good to have initiated the dissemination of the correct info, I feel a little bad about it, too--what an eye-opening find this was!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Does anyone else here remember the all-door box cars, AAR Mechanical Designation LU?

They were fairly popular around the 1970s, but now are all but extinct. I remember them well, but my friend Sarah would appreciate seeing a picture of one, if anyone can either post one or point us to one.

At any rate, I have a couple of questions:

First, what were the floors of these cars like? Were they wooden, and did they have some sort of provision for anchoring the doors into position in the floor, by the edges?

The reason I was asking was that tonight we classified a welded-rail train--about 30 flat cars--with all of the cars numbered in the ADBF 300 series (ADBF is the Adrian & Blissfield Railroad, a line in Michigan that probably owns more cars than it has track to put them on). These cars looked like cut-down bulkhead flat cars to me. However, when looking at the Equipment Registers or UMLER, they show as being of AAR Mechanical Designation LU! And it occurred to me that an LU car, cut down to the floor, might look like a bulkhead flat car would have--after all, they had no solid walls, just doors along the sides.

Hence the second question--does anyone know whether the ADBF 300-series cars (32 of them, numbers 300-331) were converted from old LUs? I will try other sources for this information, and post it on this thread if I find anything out.

IF I ever saw one as a young railfan, I didn't know what I was seeing. [B)] [8]

[CSXrules4eva]

jhhtrainsplanes the things you miss when your young. Isn't it a shame??

Ya know until yesterday I didn't know what and LU or an all door box car was or what it was used for. But from reading the discription on the above McCloud River Railroad site I leanred that some of them were used to haul lumber instead of using the bulkhead flats. Interesting.......

One thing I do have a question on though. Why would the January 2005 Equipment Register mess up and list those special cars for the ADBF from numbers 204-331 and 5210-30027 as LU cars when they aren't??.

[Anonymous]

Here is a Bennet Lumber all-door car on the Camas Prairie's Grangeville local at MP 20 on the 2nd subdivision in Idaho.



Jeff whos McCloud River page was mentioned is a friend of mine, I'll send him a link to this thread.

Jim

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Carl

All-Door cars were, esentially, bulkhead flats with a roof and plug doors for sides. Most were owned by Evans Products of Corvallis, OR, and leased to various folks. It has been a very long time since I was last in one, but I seem to remember that the floors could be either wood decking or nailable steel. Most had tiedowns on the floor next to the door sill and these tended to be equipped with air bags. I only remember seeing these cars as CSD-145 Assigned Service - Specific shipper at a specific point.

Your thought that these cars you saw were rebuilt (cut down) LU's probably is correct.

Those tie downs were not intended for lumber[:(]. What you saw were shackles intended for PEOPLE[:0].These cars were paid for by the NWO and were leased out for lumber service until they could take over and use them to haul prisoners to the death camps[B)][:(][:(!][xx(]!!!

[samfp1943]

The all-door boxcar was about 50' long and were manufactured by the Thrall Car Company, I do not know their location, their primary mission seemed to be for loading long bundles of pipe, and seemed to also wind up in the lumber carriage, Boise Cascade used to have them and they were painted green with their logo on them, but that has been a fairly long time ago. As for recycling to other rail related uses uses, railroad companies have always seemed to be able to do that very well.

[ericsp]

Occasionally I will see a FURX or NOKL all door boxcar.

[Anonymous]

As stated above Evans Railcar Leasing had 285 all-door cars listed in the Jan 1981 ORER. Other Private Car companies with all-door cars were; North American Leasing with 659 (LUNX), and Transportation Corporation of America with 120 (HTCX) and 292 (TCAX)

Bennet Lumber had 86 of the Thrall all-door cars.

Jim

[Anonymous]

Shortline Railroads with LUs listed in the 1-1981 ORER; Ashley, Drew and Northern had 70 all door cars; British Columbia Hydro had 60 all door cars; Columbia & Cowlitz Railway had 60 cars; Cooperstown and Charlotte Valley Railway had 92 cars; Duluth & Northeastern had 30 of the cars; Green Bay and Western Railroad had 6 of the cars; Fonda, Johnstown and Gloversville Railroad had 16; Louisiana Midland Railway had 102 of the cars; Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern Railway had 10 cars; Minnesota, Dakota & Western Railway had 51 of the cars; Oregon, Pacific and Eastern Railway had 5; Roscoe, Snyder and Pacific Railway had 15 cars and the Toledo, Peoria & Western Railroad had 5 cars.

Not listed with these cars as of 1-1981 were Weyerhaeuser and Northwestern Oklahoma Railway.

Jim

[CShaveRR]

Those FURX and NOKL LU cars are about all that are left (at least in any quantity).

[Anonymous]

I would think modelers would enjoy modeling this type of car, especially those that consintrate on the late 70s and early 80s. Here is a photo of one on the hump at Hinkle, Ore taken July 1984 and it is a NOKL marked car:



From the number it would appear to have been a former Louisiana Midland Railway All-Door car No LOAM 11084. Also, the point of the photo was to catch the woman switchman working this humped train, so I didn't catch the whole car. But it does show 4 of the doors.

Sarah, in about 2 or 3 years, hope to see some photos of you at work for CSX!

Jim

[StillGrande]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Carl

All-Door cars were, esentially, bulkhead flats with a roof and plug doors for sides. Most were owned by Evans Products of Corvallis, OR, and leased to various folks. It has been a very long time since I was last in one, but I seem to remember that the floors could be either wood decking or nailable steel. Most had tiedowns on the floor next to the door sill and these tended to be equipped with air bags. I only remember seeing these cars as CSD-145 Assigned Service - Specific shipper at a specific point.

Your thought that these cars you saw were rebuilt (cut down) LU's probably is correct.

Those tie downs were not intended for lumber[:(]. What you saw were shackles intended for PEOPLE[:0].These cars were paid for by the NWO and were leased out for lumber service until they could take over and use them to haul prisoners to the death camps[B)][:(][:(!][xx(]!!!

You beat me to it! I was looking for that answer. You have revealed too much information. Please report to the black van at the curb. You may bring 1 small bag with personal items.

[CShaveRR]

Jim, the car you caught next to the lady pin-puller was an Evans-built "Side Slider", a relatively rare variant of LU. The two doors on the outside were sliding doors; the two in the center were plug doors. On most LUs, all four doors on each side are plug doors. I'm sure the advantages of this design (chief among which must have been a lot less weight) were offset by disadvantages, or maybe LUs fell out of favor soon after this design was introduced.

And I'm holding out hopes that Sarah will come work for us!

Carl
AMG

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Jim, the car you caught next to the lady pin-puller was an Evans-built "Side Slider", a relatively rare variant of LU. The two doors on the outside were sliding doors; the two in the center were plug doors. On most LUs, all four doors on each side are plug doors. I'm sure the advantages of this design (chief among which must have been a lot less weight) were offset by disadvantages, or maybe LUs fell out of favor soon after this design was introduced.

And I'm holding out hopes that Sarah will come work for us!

Carl
AMG

Carl,

Ok, when going through the LUs in the 1-1981 ORER, there were two or three different discriptions. So, later on today I'll go back through and add car numbers and discription and build a list in this thread. The All-Door Thrall built car is one type as shown in the photo of the Bennet Lumber Car. Then the "side slider" was built by the Rail Division of Evans Products that also had a forest products division? I wonder what happened to Evans Products? Who bought them and so on.

Jim

[cbq9911a]

Even more incredible, two of the all door boxcars have been saved by the Illinois Railway Museum. They're very good cars for parts storage.

[Anonymous]

i see these quite often when im out....is that odd?

[CShaveRR]

The Evans Products Company that built the LUs was probably not the Evans company that hauled lumber in them. Evans, by the way, made LU cars of both styles--four plug doors and Side-Sliders.

As for your "tally post", Jim, the NOKL cars came later--they were mostly ex-LOAM, at that point. The Weyerhaeuser cars were owned by North American Car Corporation--they were lettered LUNX, but North American also had LU cars under two or three other reporting marks (NADX, BCFX, CFPX, I think).

The U.S. Plywood cars (PLYX), among the oldest large fleets around, were already gone by 1981, having been converted to standard McCloud River box cars, as shown on the link referenced early in this thread.

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by StillGrande

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Carl

All-Door cars were, esentially, bulkhead flats with a roof and plug doors for sides. Most were owned by Evans Products of Corvallis, OR, and leased to various folks. It has been a very long time since I was last in one, but I seem to remember that the floors could be either wood decking or nailable steel. Most had tiedowns on the floor next to the door sill and these tended to be equipped with air bags. I only remember seeing these cars as CSD-145 Assigned Service - Specific shipper at a specific point.

Your thought that these cars you saw were rebuilt (cut down) LU's probably is correct.

Those tie downs were not intended for lumber[:(]. What you saw were shackles intended for PEOPLE[:0].These cars were paid for by the NWO and were leased out for lumber service until they could take over and use them to haul prisoners to the death camps[B)][:(][:(!][xx(]!!!

You beat me to it! I was looking for that answer. You have revealed too much information. Please report to the black van at the curb. You may bring 1 small bag with personal items.

So that's why the black helicopters have been circling my house lately[:(!]! Also I am now constantly followed by a black van[B)].Several times lately I have seen the cigarette smoking man lurking in the shadows.

[Anonymous]

Here is the listing for LU box cars from the 1 - 1981 ORER for short line owners. I've listed what I think is the builder by using demensions and notes in the ORER. Where I've placed a question mark by the builder is where I'm not 100 % positive about the builder. From what I understand, Evans Products was taken over during 1983 during a Junk Bond raid and was liquidated in BK in 1985 or 86. Thrall Railcar was merged into Trinity Industries during 2001.

Amador Central Railroad - Line 1, LU. Description; Box, Wood Flr. AMC 501 - 511 = 11cars (Evans Products?).
Amador Central Railroad - Line 2, LU. Description; Box, Wood Flr. AMC 514 - 522 = 9 cars (Evans Products?).

Arcata and Mad River Rail Road - Line 2, LU. Description; Box, All Door. AMR 5001 - 5020 = 20 cars (Evans Products).

Ashley, Drew & Northern Railway - Line 12, LU. Description; Box, Steel, All Door, 25K. ADN 4701 - 4770 = 70 cars (Thrall).

British Columbia Hydro - Line 2, LU. Description; Box, All Door. BCH 501 - 510 = 10 cars (Thrall).

Columbia & Cowlitz Railway - Line 3, LU. Description; Box, All Door, Repair Points: Renton WA, Columbia Jct. CLC 2001 - 2060 = 60 cars (Evans Products?).

Cooperstown and Charlotte Valley Railway - Line 1, LU. Description; Box, Stl, All Door, End of Car Cush. CACV 28070 - 28081 = 12 cars (Thrall).
Cooperstown and Charlotte Valley Railway - Line 2, LU. Description; Box, Stl, Side Slider, End of Car Cush. CACV 29007 - 29046 = 40 cars (Evans Products).
Cooperstown and Charlotte Valley Railway - Line 3, LU. Description; Box, Stl, Side Slider, End of Car Cush. CACV 30000 - 30039 = 40 cars (Evans Products).

Duluth & Northeastern Railroad - Line 1, LU. Description; Box, 4 Thrall Type Doors Per Side. DNE 100 - 129 = 30 cars (Thrall).

Fonda, Johnstown and Gloversville Railroad - Line 1 LU. Description; Box, Stl, Side Slider, End of Car Cush. FJG 29000 - 29006 = 7 cars (Evans Products).
Fonda, Johnstown and Gloversville Railroad - Line 2 LU. Description; Box, Stl, Side Slider, End of Car Cush. FJG 40000 - 40008 = 9 cars (Evans Products).

Green Bay and Western Railroad - Line 5, LU. Description; Box, Stl, Cush underfrm, All Door, 25K, Roller Bearings. GBW 50 - 55 = 6 cars (Thrall).

Louisiana Midland Railway - Line 16 - 28, LU. Description; Box, All Door. Loam 11000 - 11099 = 100 cars (Evans Products).
Louisiana Midland Railway - Line 29, LU. Description; Box, All Door. Loam 11100 - 11124 = 25 cars (Evans Products).

Oregon, Pacific and Eastern Railway - Line 5, LU. Description; Box, Stl. OPE 2001 - 2006 = 5 cars (Thrall).

Roscoe, Snyder and Pacific Railway - Line 13, LU. Description; Box, All Door, 25K - RSP 20266 - 20275 = 10 cars (Thrall).
Roscoe, Snyder and Pacific Railway - Line 14, LU. Description; Box, All Door, 25K - RSP 20276 - 20280 = 5 cars (Thrall).

Toledo, Peoria & Western Railroad - Line 16, LU. Description; Box, All Door, Roller Bearing Trucks, (plywood & Lumber) Assigned Service. TPW 50605 - 50605 = 5 cars (Evans Products?).

Well do the private fleet tomorrow. Please let me know about and mistakes, corrections and such.

Jim Bryant

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

The Evans Products Company that built the LUs was probably not the Evans company that hauled lumber in them. Evans, by the way, made LU cars of both styles--four plug doors and Side-Sliders.

Carl,

Thanks so much for the information on the two types of Evans Products cars. I've always been so interested in lumbering and logging so this was all new to me. I just always assumed that Thrall had an exclusive on these types of cars. Have Hanfts book on the McCloud River Railroad where he writes about Flake Willis and this new idea.

QUOTE: As for your "tally post", Jim, the NOKL cars came later--they were mostly ex-LOAM, at that point. The Weyerhaeuser cars were owned by North American Car Corporation--they were lettered LUNX, but North American also had LU cars under two or three other reporting marks (NADX, BCFX, CFPX, I think).

When I was looking at my few photos of these LU style box cars and found the one on the hump, I noticed the NOKL which looked like it was painted over a former reporting mark, then just looked through the ORER and found the LOAM cars with those number series. Thanks for the confirmation.

QUOTE: The U.S. Plywood cars (PLYX), among the oldest large fleets around, were already gone by 1981, having been converted to standard McCloud River box cars, as shown on the link referenced early in this thread.

One of the photos on Jeff's McCloud page is mine, its the one with all the doors lying in the dirt. Again, thanks. I think this would make a nice article, wish I'd been into rolling stock back 25 years ago!

Jim

[JDLX]

Greetings-

This is Jeff Moore, owner/operator of the McCloud River site discussed in this thread. Very interesting discussion about these cars...I'm enjoying it.

One more shortline that had these cars...the Eureka Southern bought around 28 of them in 1984/1985. One of them actually got painted into EUKA's orange and yellow paint. Anyone know what happened to those cars?

Finally- four of the Oregon Pacific & Eastern cars still exist, all still wearing full OP&E markings. The cars are inside the City of Cottage Grove maintenance yard, on what was the tail track of the wye used to turn the Blue Goose passenger trains when they still ran there. Brian McCammish has two pictures of these cars on his Abandoned Railroads of the Pacific Northwest webpage...here are the links to those pages:

http://www.brian894x4.com/images/OPEwye03.jpg
http://www.brian894x4.com/images/OPEwye04.jpg

Thanks for the comments on the McCloud Rails site. I appreciate them a lot.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails
http://www.trainweb.org/highdesertrails

[CShaveRR]

Welcome to this Forum, Jeff!

I had to look at my records for the EUKA cars. I show EUKA 100-127 as coming from LUNX series 4144-4174 in 1985. Most of them retained their old paint jobs for the Celotex Corporation, but, as you say, at least one car (EUKA 117) was repainted yellow and orange, with a black logo.

By mid-1987, some cars from EUKA 100-127 had been relettered and sequentially renumbered to HLMX 3100-3127 (3125 was my high number observed or documented). Don't know what HELM did with them. The EUKA listing disappeared in 1990.

Carl