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B unit maximum

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  • Member since
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  • From: Gateway to Donner Summit
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Posted by broncoman on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:29 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark_W._Hemphill


Let me try again. A railroad prior to 1953 using EMD units could *always* m.u. more than four units up to the limits of the physical plant and the trailing tonnage *unless* it wanted to use dynamic brakes, where there was an absolute limit of four units *regardless of drawbar limits* set by the electrical system of the dynamic brakes. For example, Rio Grande typically set F-unit freight consists at four units up through model F7, because that is the total number of units the dynamic brakes would support. This has absolutely nothing to do with drawbar limits, which is a separate matter. After EMD developed point-potential brakes, Rio Grande upgraded its F7s (but not the FTs) so it could start building five-unit and six-unit sets of F-units AND have dynamic braking on all units.

I used to assign the power to 20-40 trains a night, and choose the points where the manned helpers and distributed power were cut in and cut out over a two-crew mountain district with five helper grades and some very difficult buff force problems. It wasn't much fun, because there was never enough power to satisfy the operating plan, and never enough rested crews or good power.

Come on over here to Iraq -- the U.S. Government can use people like you that have lots of ambition and pride.


Mark,

Just so I am sure, when you have a MU lashup with either type of dynamic brake, the brake grid on a given unit of that lashup is only powered by that units traction motors. The grids don't get tied together only the control system for the grids correct?

Good luck and take care over there!

Dave
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  • From: Ely, Nv.
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Posted by chad thomas on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:33 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by broncoman


Mark,

Just so I am sure, when you have a MU lashup with either type of dynamic brake, the brake grid on a given unit of that lashup is only powered by that units traction motors. The grids don't get tied together only the control system for the grids correct?

Good luck and take care over there!

Dave


Correct.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:43 PM
The ruling grade on a tearitory is normally the limiting factor due to the tensil strength of the knuckles. It is customary to limit throttle possition or ampereage in time table special instructions on the ruling grade if there are other reasons to use more than the max # of units for that grade. I would give you the formula but then the railroad officials mite see it & learn something they should have known all the time..

THE HOGGER

PS: Never had to worry about that on CSX, they only allow enough power to move the train vveerryy sslloowwllyy...
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:26 PM
Broncoman,
I model the CGW and have done a fair amount of research on the "Great Weedy". They lashed together as many covered wagons as needed for the tonnage of a particular train. The usual was 6 (A-B-B-B-B-A) between Chicago and Oelwein(the CGW's hub city) but more, and sometimes less, occured on occasion. The CGW had no MU hoses on the cab ends of their A units so they were always leading and trailing. One of my books has a photo of an 8 unit lashup and another of a 12 units.
Hope this helps.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, September 1, 2005 12:10 PM
CGW usually ran in a maximum tonnage style due to the influence of William Deramus in the president's office. It was his method of controlling costs and the operating style followed him (along with red diesels) to MKT and KCS.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 1, 2005 12:39 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

It is not a limit of the amount locos on the front, it is a magic number limit of "pull" that the drawbars, couplers, and knuckles can take.

A good writeup on the subject is here...

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/drawbar.htm

And here...

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/hp_te.htm



Wow! That writeup on tractive effort is excellent for understanding how all this stuff works, and why you would want/need to use different locos in different situations. Thanks for the links!

-brijenn
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 5, 2005 7:21 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark_W._Hemphill

QUOTE: Originally posted by teamdon
Drawbar tonnage ring a bell ????...It's really very simple if you cut through the ?&*#......

Did you miss the original question? It asked the maximum number of B units a railroad could M.U. When F-units were running, there were three things that determined that maximum number, not just drawbar limits:

1. Drawbar limits and buff forces (determined by the physical plant)
2. M.U. signal competence (usually limited the consist to 8 units)
3. Type of dynamic braking on railroads so equipped.

Let me try again. A railroad prior to 1953 using EMD units could *always* m.u. more than four units up to the limits of the physical plant and the trailing tonnage *unless* it wanted to use dynamic brakes, where there was an absolute limit of four units *regardless of drawbar limits* set by the electrical system of the dynamic brakes. For example, Rio Grande typically set F-unit freight consists at four units up through model F7, because that is the total number of units the dynamic brakes would support. This has absolutely nothing to do with drawbar limits, which is a separate matter. After EMD developed point-potential brakes, Rio Grande upgraded its F7s (but not the FTs) so it could start building five-unit and six-unit sets of F-units AND have dynamic braking on all units.

I used to assign the power to 20-40 trains a night, and choose the points where the manned helpers and distributed power were cut in and cut out over a two-crew mountain district with five helper grades and some very difficult buff force problems. It wasn't much fun, because there was never enough power to satisfy the operating plan, and never enough rested crews or good power.

Come on over here to Iraq -- the U.S. Government can use people like you that have lots of ambition and pride.
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Posted by Eric Stuart on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:58 AM
Dunno if this is worth a new thred ...
Re Pensy duplexes etc.
In UK, extinct locos have been built new, to original plans.
Does anybody have the will (and the money) to build something like a Duplex - either stationary or able to work!?!?
Any ideas?
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:58 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Eric Stuart

Dunno if this is worth a new thred ...
Re Pensy duplexes etc.
In UK, extinct locos have been built new, to original plans.
Does anybody have the will (and the money) to build something like a Duplex - either stationary or able to work!?!?
Any ideas?


Welcome to the forums[bow]
The expense of building a T1 from scratch, even for display, would be quite high and therefore unlikely. Old diesels can be maintained with less difficulty since parts are more available.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by ndbprr on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:12 AM
In regard to braking modern engines with dynamic barking have an excess of braking power. This was regarded as a luxury and not all early F units had dynamic brakes. It didn't take long for the railroads to realize, dynamic braking was a necessity. I have seen IC training films and they limit the number of axles for dynamic braking. As I recall it is 16 but that needs confirmation. Today dynamic braking can cause cars to start popping if too much is used. It is just too effective in stopping a train.

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