locomotive?

[dstill]

I have seen this happen I think on 3 ocassions and would like to know the cause? What caused locomotives to have fire coming from the exhaust, saw one night on CSX in Rocky Mount, NS in Charlotte, CSX in Waxhaw.

[edblysard]

It most likley was caused by turbo charger lag, and soot in the exhaust system. Most turbochargers are driven by exhaust gases, which push against one side of a double sided turbine. The other side draws in fresh air and forces it into the combustion chambers at a high rate, improving both the combustion of the fuel and the hp output of the engine. The exhaust turbo spins all the time, but at low engine rmp, it dosnt turn the fresh air turbine side, and allows the pistons to draw in the fresh air on their down stroke. The exhaust side and fresh air turbines are connected to each other by either a centrifugal clutch, or a set of gears. Gear driven responds faster, the clutch style can have a lag time if the clutch is old and worn. When the engineer applys power quickly, the exhaust gases spin the exhaust side up to the speed of the clutch, which then engages and spins the intake side. When there is a lag time between the two, or the clutch binds, exhaust gas builds up in the muffler and exhaust stack, and any hot piece of soot, or a spark, will ingite the gas, as it still contains some fuel gas. You can get quite a light show from the really old EMDs, and the old GEs can look like they have a small rocket engine blasting out of their exhaust stack. Keep in mind the diesel locomotive exhaust is very hot, a lot hotter than your automobiles exhaust, and that the exhaust systems get rusty, on old motors, they are full of the stuff. Some of the flakes of rust get red hot, and break away, you see it as sparks flying out of the exhaust stack.
Ed

[Anonymous]

Here is a rare sight if you get the chance to see it is some SD-9`s that have to go to the repair shop for inspection that are mued to the lead unit all of the soot coming out of the exhaust stack can and will be a light show when throttle is applied the railroad get called from everyone thinking that a locomotive is on fire the only thing we are doing is blowing the cobs out of it. Rodney

[edblysard]

We had an old SP sd9 we switched with for about a month. We got rid of it when our new motors showed up. The silly thing had a habit of, every time the engineer shut off the throttle after a kick, the turbo "burped". Sounded like a couple of cannons going off in the middle of the yard. The people around the yard kept calling the tower the first few day we used it, wanting to know what blew up...
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed, I hate to nit-pick, but SD-9's were not turbo-charged. I have heard about early EMD turbo "burps" before, but you must have been refering to a GP-20, or SD-24. I don't think SP had SD-24's though. By the time the GP-30 came around, EMD had corrected their turbo "heebie-jeebies"
Now, just for laughs, I gotta tell you about this railfan/engineer I knew in the 1970's.
In the Battle Creek yard, on the GTW, I knew this fellow who shall remain nameless here as he is still on the job. Years ago, right before the GTW retired the last of it's old ALCO switchers, my friend thought of a neat photo. We were at the east end of the yard, (no officials around), and he told me to get ready to take a picture of the engine. I positioned myself for a good 3/4 side shot, and he got up on top of the hood with a 5 gallon pail of used motor oil. He dumped it down the stack, then scurried back to the cab and hauled out on the throttle. Talk about some fireworks!!! I was laughing so hard I don't know how I was able to trip the shutter. Alco 539's always put on a good show, but this was more like a Grand Finale! Alas, before the summer was out, GTW retired the last of the old S-4's.
Todd C.

[wabash1]

a lot has to do with the injectors as the engine gets some years on them the injectors get worn and start leaking fuel also. its the extra unburnt fuel that is igniting in the exahust that is seen in the stack. i had a consist one night of a sd40 lead unit a sd 60 2nd unit a dead ge 4axel a dead gp 38 and on the rear a old dash 8 running. as i was pulling the grade i see the stack light up. but on this particular grade she glowed more so than most. as i top the hill i notch off the throttle . well i got a flame about 2ft high about 2ft wide comming out of it. as we went down the other side i kept notvhing off and the flame kept geting bigger till it was 5ft high and 4ft wide. i had the throttle off still had flames and growing for about a 1/2 mile at this point i figured this unit was on fire. when suddenly it flashed another ball of flames and bells started ringing and the flames went out. i called the dispatcher who called the shop people just 10 miles ahead to stay and look at the unit as i needed it for power to finsih the trip. the shops restarted it did a load test and flame again they shut it down tagged it out of service. said the injector tips are burnt off.

a big differance between the trucks and the locomotives is that in the old days when we use to turn the trucks up the more flames you see the better it pull not so with a locomotive any flames you see makes it load less.

[edblysard]

Hey Bob, nit pick all you want, I think thats what this fourm is for, to pass on knowledge. It may have been a sd 24, I am not a early locomotive spotter. It had been repainted so many times that when it was left in the sun, the last coat of paint would get soft...it was a SP unit, had the bloody nose red ends. Which one would have had a real boxy blower? Looked a bit big, like it had not been designed to go with that motor. I know it wasnt a gp 30, didnt have the cowling on the roof, and it had tall hoods on both ends? I know our engineers were glad to see it go.
Ed

[csxengineer98]

turbo charger air filter is getting cloged and needs replaceing
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure Ed, the SD24 as built, had a prominent bulge behind the cab on the firemans side, but this was a circular protrusion. Did the unit have a rounded cab roof, or angular? Low-nose, or High? Single exhaust stack, or two? I'll try to identify the unit in question, if I have a little more to go on. You are sure it was EMD?

[edblysard]

Before the GP 30, didnt have that roofline. Two stacks. Checked some photos in trains, it looks like a GP rebuild. Yes, is a EMD, had their rounded fuel tank. I didnt pay all that much attention to it, it was a tempoary unit, bummed from SPs Hardy street yard as back up, to hold us over untill our MK1500Ds got here. I was a new guy then, was more interested in not getting smushed than what the power was. I do remember that it had heavy cast steel handrail stanchions, they struck me as a odd heavy duty part for a hand rail, it looked like something that belonged on a big ship, not a small locomotive, and under all that paint, the treadbright pattern still showed up well. A low short hood, but it looked like something done after the unit was built. It had a rounded roof, not flat angles like most I see today. I dont remebmer if it had a dynamic brake bluge or not, I dont think it did, but, my hair and brain are going gray at the same rate, so who knows? Duel headlights, no ditch lights, no beacon on the top, and numberboards front and rear, missing numbers but still has glass in them. Help any? If not, dont knock yourself out over it, but that darn thing scared the you know what out of a lot of engineers here. I think all of them were glad to see it go back home. Turbo burp is what our diesel shop wizzard said caused the twin booms. But it did scare away all those pigions really well....
Stay frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Castings for the railings would indicate a GP or SD 7. So, 6 axles vs.4 will clear that up. If it was an EMD with twin stacks, then there was no turbo. (GP/SD 7's were normally aspirated).
Of course, there is no absolute answer, as the shops could have cobbled-up a unit from various donor units too. If you are interested in learning more on this type of stuff, I'd reccommend getting a copy of the "Second Diesel Spotters Guide" from Kalmbach. Come to think of it, I'd reccommend that I get a copy too, as my old trusty one is starting to fall apart from almost constant use.
As far as what the loud bang was, if this WAS a normally aspirated EMD, my guess would be a crankcase explosion. This happens from time to time on older, poorly maintained units. Usually though, when that happens, the unit is disabled because it will blow the side covers off the block. I recall, in the 1970,s seeing an old C&O GP-9, mid-consist, running (barely) after just such an event. There was THICK, BLACK, oily smoke EVERYWHERE! See, what happens, is the engine looses its supply of pressurized intake air. ( the EMD non-turbo units use a Roots type blower to force air into the cylinders. When you loose a side cover, you loose intake pressure. This results in an overly rich condition in the cylinders. This will sometimes be accompanied by flames coming out of the stacks. Anyway, it's a sight to see.
Hope this helps.
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

Sure would like to see that photo!!