NS pays $1.28/ gallon for diesel...

[oltmannd]

The RRs really started watching things after the 1974 crunch and doubled their efforts after the 1980 crunch. Since then, they've been working steadily on it - so there's nothing much new in recent months.

Some of the things RRs do to reduce fuel consumption:

-shut down idling units (including applying APUs, autostart, etc. to minimize idling time)
-reduce HP/ton ratings to lowest possible levels
-don't overpower trains
-purchase newer, more fuel efficient locomotives - retire older units
-put new locomotives in high utilization svc.
-minimize the use of stretch braking - maximize use of dyn brk.

Some things RRs do to minimize fuel cost are:

-Selectively fuel locomotives based on fuel cost.
-hedge fuel purchases

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Are the railroads doing anything diferently as o flate to conserve fuel, as this would have to be a big expensive drag on the bottom line. How about out on the road? Do they watch fuel *mileage*?

You bet! Generally, they track gross ton miles per gallon as the measure of "mileage".

You might want to read this, too.http://www.nscorp.com/nscorp/application?pageid=Legacy&page=http%3A//www.nscorp.com/nscorphtml/releases03/leader.html

[Murphy Siding]

oltmannd: I couldn't get the first link to work. The second link was interesting. It kind of sounded like the locomotive would *advise* to the engineer about running the train? I already have one of those for the car-my wife.[:I]

[mackb4]

Railroads use a higher sulfer grade of fuel than most industries , thus the color of the fuel is a very dark brown.If it's a fuel of any type to my knowledge a tax has to be paid,business or civilian use.The NS had a contract for so many years to buy their fuel for $1.11 a gallon,the last time I saw any company memo.But that price may have expired.Something we have at the NS that I'm sure most RR's have is a "shut'em down "program.If a unit is to idle for more than 30 mins.it is to be shutdown.Now certain situations apply such as temp.,or if the train line air has to be maintained when the train is parked.Also certain exConrail units renumbered 6700's,will mess up the engine air brake computer if they are shutdown.A good one I read in the paper locally was that the public school's are considering curbing bus routes or stopping some all together.What's next ,will our kids have to pay a fair or use a token when they get on school buses?The fuel prices are hitting us all.What will it be like next year ?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

oh yea..also..you have to keep in mind..that gas and diesel are not the same thing by a long shot.... gas is even more refind then disel fuel is..so it costs more to produce...
csx engineer

Due to the recent federal mandates to produce very low sulphur diesel fuels, the refining process can actually be more costly than for gasoline. I know the refineries had to install millions of $$ of equipment, and special hydrogen generators to feed the process.

The other kicker is that a lot of diesel is no longer created by the distallation process, but by using catalytic "crackers" to create the molcules they want. These are not as stable as the older diesels, and as a result the diesel can go "bad" in as little as 3 months after refining, and seldom will last more than 6 months.

Mark in Utah

[dwil89]

From a Locomotive Fuel consumption chart....An SD40-2 uses 4.0 gal per hour at low idle...and 168 gal per hr at full load. An SD70M uses 3.0 gal per hour at low idle and 191 gal per hr at full load. An SD80MAC with 20 cylinders uses 3.6 gal an hr at idle and 237 gal per hour at full load. A Dash-9 would be comparable to a SD70M in consumption. Dave Williams @ [e-mail]

[mackb4]

I know we normally run out of Williamson ,Wva to Portsmouth,Ohio with 2 Big Jacks (mostly 2 GE Dash 8,s or 9's) and anywhere from 160 to 250 loads of coal.It is 112 mile at a fairly level grade.Pulling 16,000 to 2?,??? odd tons for around 4.5 to 5 hrs.if it's a straight shot train (and weighing the train at Prichard scales in which you pull along less than 8 mph) I have noticed when I have a working fuel gauge,a motor consumes around 300 gallons during the trip.That would be around 600 gallons for the two units.I've also noticed lately some of the other RR's units having stickers saying to keep the engine out of dynamic brake to conserve fuel.I don't know how much fuel that would factor in ,but one things for sure,RR's are full of pencil pushers !

[tomnoy3]

The thing with fuel tax is that its used to pay for road repairs, and dot, and all of that. Becuase railroads and farmers dont use public roads, why should they have to pay for repairs on it? So ruby diesel, which is the tax-free, has a redi***int to distinguisd itself from its taxed counterpart. If you were to get caught driving down I-90 in your Chevy 2500 or Freightliner Century with ruby diesel in your tank, its atleast a $1000 fine.

-Tom

[Murphy Siding]

mackb4: How would use of dynamic brakes affect fuel useage?

[mackb4]

Well that's the thing I was a wondering too.I know when you go to dyn.brake your pushing most of the current from the traction motors thru the dyn. brake grids, which is the "jet like"sound you hear when a loco. is in dyn.brake (most units have three grids) .The only thing I can think of is when the aux/gen is being charged to turn the cooling fans that cools the grids down,the diesel is powering up to run the aux/gen.Again someone behind a desk thinking hard to save every penny.

[richardy]

I was surprised too. Since the dynamic power is being discharged as waste heat in the resistor grids why can't the locomotive builders operate the cooling fan motors from the dynamic power? It seems that would use some of the wasted dynamic power reducing heat in the grids and let the prime mover idle.

[mackb4]

I asked the fuel truck driver Saturday morning and the diesel is a ruby color now.But it sure is dark in the site glass when you prime the motor to start.Maybe dirty filters ?

[oltmannd]

Braking that turns KE into heat is equally inefficient. It's the whole braking scenario that generally causes DB to use less fuel than using the automatic.

When you use the DB, you have to bunch up the slack and then go to DB. When you are doing this, you're not making any traction power.

Dyn braking is not capable of providing as great an amount of braking forse as the automatic brake - it only applies to the locomotive wheels vs. every wheel on the train, so generally, using DB will mean starting to slow down sooner than if you just used the automatic brake.

Also, a common technique for smooth train handling is stretch braking - sort of like stepping on the gas and brake on your car at the same time.

So, using DB instead of the air brake generally results in lower fuel consumption.

[Murphy Siding]

oltmannd: Therein lies my quandry. The earlier post from mackb4 made it sound like some railroads were suggesting NOT using the dynamic brakes as a way to conserve fuel. You're saying the opposite? I tend to agree with your explanation.

[mackb4]

Like I mentioned.On some of the other lines that I do not work for,I have seen the sticker as mentioned.I don't agree with those companies policy of saying less dyn.brk. is fuel savings.If you are familar with using the air brakes (auto brake) as I am (I'm an engineer on the NS) you will understand that using the air brakes is a much more effective way of stopping a train without using the dyn.brk.But most RR's air brake equipment is not up to snuff to do this with all trains.Our NS1 (NS's RR Bible)states the first priority of brake is dyn.brk.Then they got this funky percentage of how many cars your to make a running release on your brakes (125 is the max).We run big trains on the Poca.and just about anytime you use your air it's to come to a complete stop.And the only way to bunch up slack is to use dyn.brk.It is forbidden on the NS to use the train brake (independent) to bunch up slack,unless in a yard situation.It can cause bad problems behind the engine if you do that.A roadformen told me once the three things they looked for in a derailment are 1.speed 2.switches lined correctly 3.if the engineer used the indep.brk. at the moment of the derailment.The FRA has experimented in the last few years with electric brakes on the cars.This may work,but would be a great expense for the RR's to change over to.