CN vs. CP

[alstom]

Out of the two biggest "Class1" railroads in Canada (and US), which do you vote for: Canadian Pacific or Canadian National?[?][?]

Richard

[chad thomas]

Which would I vote for? What are they running for? [}:)]

[daveklepper]

The CP is a class act in everything they do. The CN is very, very big.

[alstom]

Ok, sorry, which do you "choose" chad thomas?

[chad thomas]

Just playin'

I have not fanned either one. That's something I would like to change though. My dad and I are talking about making Canada the target for our next big railfanning trip. Perhaps going to Vancouver then east through the Frasier and Thompson river canyons. It might not happen till next spring though. I can't say I have a preferance for either one. I do like the cowl units and CN has quite a variety of them in there fleet. On the other hand I like the bright red CP paint. When I lived on the Columbia river I would see a lot of CP power coming off the Spokane International line. Those trains with CP & UP power mixed made for some colorfull consists. Of course that was back when UP had clean locos. Anyway I can't call it.

[Anonymous]

CP's the more intriguing railroad for me.

[alstom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cris Helt

CP's the more intriguing railroad for me.

I agree! CP is more of an interesting railroad than CN. By the way, thanks chad thomas!

[chad thomas]

Did you see this from Progressive Railroading's news?

Corridor expansion doesn’t keep CPR from recording revenue growth
A significant capacity expansion project on Canadian Pacific Railway’s busiest corridor didn’t put a damper on the Class I’s ability to post solid second-quarter revenue increases.

The Class I had net income of $123 million in the second quarter, a 46.4 percent increase compared with net income of $84 million in second-quarter 2004. A focus on higher-yield traffic helped CPR boost revenue per carload 14 percent compared with the same 2004 period, the railway reported.

Overall, CPR recorded revenue of $1.11 billion, a 10 percent increase compared with the same period a year earlier. Revenue was up in five of the railway’s seven business lines, led by coal (up 48 percent compared with second-quarter 2004), intermodal (up 10 percent) and grain (up 7 percent).

The performance was “remarkable,” considering it was achieved “with major track capacity work in full force between the Canadian Prairies and the Vancouver gateway, our busiest corridor,” said CPR President and Chief Executive Officer Rob Ritchie in a prepared statement.

In another “remarkable” line item, CPR's fuel expense increased by 35 percent compared with the same 2004 period, although more than three-quarters of the increase was recouped via fuel surcharges, hedging and a range of fuel-efficiency measures, according to the railroad. Excluding fuel costs, CPR’s operating expenses were up less than 2 percent. The railway’s second-quarter operating ratio of 75.5 represented an improvement of 2.5 percentage points compared with second-quarter 2004’s ratio.

“The fluidity across our network is generating greater operating efficiency, which is driving more of our growth to the bottom line,” Ritchie said.

[alstom]

Hmm, interesting. [8]

[wctransfer]

I like CP and CN. I like CP becasue they havethe SOO line, and my uncle is a dispatcher for them. I like CN(only engineers and engines) because they have WC and i know a lot of people there. So i Like CN's power, and engineers and conductors, but not the managment. And i think Alstom is being like breakingbenjamin4444 , they just post post post .

Alec

[Anonymous]

I see more CN than CP in Southern Illinois, but I like CP better. CP doesn't go around trying to take everybody else over. CP seems to be a good, basic, and dependable railroad.

[CBCNS]

I have to vote for CN. They have so grown their network over the past number of years through acquisitions of WC, BC Rail, Illinois Central, and others. Back in 1992, CN was judged to be one of the weakest Class 1s from a financial point of view. Now it rides at the top of the heap. Of course, I am biased too! CN ran through my town of Antigonish up until 1993 when Railtex (now Rail America) took over operations between Truro and Sydney NS. And three generations of my family worked for CN. But I do agree that CP will always be the line with the most colorful history.

[TH&B]

I tend to have just a slight preference for CN. I like the black deisels better then red (too bright.) but I do like the older CPR orange SD40's. CN has better freight car colours for the most part. CN has a more mixed bag of freight and hauls longer mixed freight trains and more local road switchers. CN also had the fantastic narrow gauge trains in Newfoundland right up through the late 80's and also a very interesting electric comuter train operation in CN colours right up to the 90's.

[Junctionfan]

CN is an impatient grower going for huge and unwielding aquisitions that need to be according to them chopped to reduce costs and increase performance. Although CN for so far has avoided profit and operations trouble, they could just as easily end up the UP of Canada.

CP is a patient grower. They grow a little bit every year and not afraid to experiment long-term (expressway, NS running rights in Michigan, SD90s, etc) which has largely been sucessful. They prefer to grow solidly on their own rather then merge with others.

The fact that CP the first railroad in Canada to build the transcontinental and was still sucessful, is a testimate that it is still sucessful today remaining as a class 1.

Although CP doesn't run as much traffic as CN, that could change as soon as the double tracking out west is basically complete.

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Did you see this from Progressive Railroading's news?

Corridor expansion doesn’t keep CPR from recording revenue growth
A significant capacity expansion project on Canadian Pacific Railway’s busiest corridor didn’t put a damper on the Class I’s ability to post solid second-quarter revenue increases.

If the old saying is true "that numbers never lie" then in a discussion about who is best CN or CP, numbers are CN's best friend. Here are CN's results from the second quarter:

Financial highlights, and increased full-year 2005 earnings forecast
Diluted earnings per share of $1.47 for the second quarter of 2005, up 30 per cent from $1.13 reported for second-quarter 2004;
Second-quarter 2005 net income of $416 million, an increase of 28 per cent from second-quarter 2004 net income of $326 million;
Second-quarter 2005 operating income of $713 million, an increase of 24 per cent;
Record second-quarter operating ratio of 61.2 per cent, a 4.3-percentage point improvement over second-quarter 2004 performance;
Free cash flow of $787 million for the first half of 2005, compared with $587 million for the comparable period of 2004; (1)
Strong results and solid outlook prompt management to increase full-year 2005 earnings guidance – diluted earnings per share for the year now expected to rise in the range of 20 to 25 per cent, compared with previous guidance of 10-15 per cent increase over 2004 EPS of $4.34.

CN's operating ratio of 61.2% is incredible when compared with the rest of the industry.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wctransfer

I like CP and CN. I like CP becasue they havethe SOO line, and my uncle is a dispatcher for them. I like CN(only engineers and engines) because they have WC and i know a lot of people there. So i Like CN's power, and engineers and conductors, but not the managment. And i think Alstom is being like breakingbenjamin4444 , they just post post post .

Alec

You know what, I'm sick of you guys saying I'm star chasing ok? I post because I like to and it's fun. And i'm learning about trains. Trains are awesome and they're fun to learn about. So give me a break or I just might stop posting posting forever OK?[V] By the way CP Rail is my vote.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: And i think Alstom is being like breakingbenjamin4444 , they just post post post .

The name might be fred... heh heh [}:)]

[Anonymous]

The name might be fred... heh heh [}:)]

Do you think that's funny? You probably just are picking on me like everyone else. Everyone thinks I'm star chasing. It's so annoying. but hey, you probably think the same thing.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Did you see this from Progressive Railroading's news?

Corridor expansion doesn’t keep CPR from recording revenue growth
A significant capacity expansion project on Canadian Pacific Railway’s busiest corridor didn’t put a damper on the Class I’s ability to post solid second-quarter revenue increases.

If the old saying is true "that numbers never lie" then in a discussion about who is best CN or CP, numbers are CN's best friend. Here are CN's results from the second quarter:

Financial highlights, and increased full-year 2005 earnings forecast
Diluted earnings per share of $1.47 for the second quarter of 2005, up 30 per cent from $1.13 reported for second-quarter 2004;
Second-quarter 2005 net income of $416 million, an increase of 28 per cent from second-quarter 2004 net income of $326 million;
Second-quarter 2005 operating income of $713 million, an increase of 24 per cent;
Record second-quarter operating ratio of 61.2 per cent, a 4.3-percentage point improvement over second-quarter 2004 performance;
Free cash flow of $787 million for the first half of 2005, compared with $587 million for the comparable period of 2004; (1)
Strong results and solid outlook prompt management to increase full-year 2005 earnings guidance – diluted earnings per share for the year now expected to rise in the range of 20 to 25 per cent, compared with previous guidance of 10-15 per cent increase over 2004 EPS of $4.34.

CN's operating ratio of 61.2% is incredible when compared with the rest of the industry.

Yes, I agree 61.2% is an incredible number. They must be doing something right to do that good.[;)]

[jchnhtfd]

Talk about a hard choice... even though I am biased (years ago worked for one of them) -- CP is a fascinating operation, although it is a little smaller, and has some really interesting odd branches. Not to mention history, history, history -- I don't think it would be too far off to say that Canada might not even exist if it were not for the navvies and engineers and managers who pushed the CP across the top of Lake Superior! On the other hand, CN has made some wonderful advances in the fine art of operating a railroad as a business, and also (if you take all of the lines that made it up) an interesting history...

Eh... call it a toss-up!

[Anonymous]

I like the CP too and intriguing is just the word.

CN is big--doesn't do much for railfans--and sometimes I think it's bent on complete global domination (ok, not global, but maybe North American).

[Anonymous]

Royal Hudsons, spiral tunnels, and the Park series Dome Observation cars. The CP's Canadian was like the Q's California Zephyr on steroids.

CP seemed to innovate a lot more than most North American roads. They even owned a trucking company and an airline at one time. There was a program on PBS or Travel channel recently about all the CP luxury resorts and hotels across Canada. Worth watching.

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up829

Royal Hudsons, spiral tunnels, and the Park series Dome Observation cars. The CP's Canadian was like the Q's California Zephyr on steroids.

CP seemed to innovate a lot more than most North American roads. They even owned a trucking company and an airline at one time. There was a program on PBS or Travel channel recently about all the CP luxury resorts and hotels across Canada. Worth watching.

And don't forget the Empress class of ocean liners! Fabulous ships...

Of course, one should also remember that the Great Northern also had a shipping line extension, and both it and the UP were very much into resorts (concessions at National Parks)

[Anonymous]

Yes, and as a matter of fact, the UP developed Sun Valley, Idaho, as a ski resort.