"The Log Trains of Southern Idaho"(?!?).....not likely!

[Anonymous]

Been perusing through the latest (Summer 2005) issue of the "Historic Rail" mail order catalog. On page 6 there's an ad for the book "The Log Trains of Southern Idaho" by an auther with the last name of Witherell. Part of the abstract reads "....through the dense forests of southern Idaho."

Since I am from this part of the country, I have some doubts about this ad, either it being a typo (perhaps supposed to refer the log trains of northern Idaho or southern Oregon), or if there was indeed logging train operations albeit in limited applications in southern Idaho, which by the way is totally devoid of any "dense" forests, those forests being comprised mostly of sparse ponderosa pine, lodgepole pine, aspen, and juniper.

Other doubts are raised by the reference to Weyerhaeuser, which had (and still has) major operations in Washington, Oregon, and northern Idaho, but not in southern Idaho. I also have quite a few geographic atlases and contour maps of southern Idaho, and none of these show any old railroad grades through any of the forest lands.

Does anyone out there have this book? If so, is it indeed about logging train operations in southern Idaho, or am I correct in suspecting a catalog misprint/typo/error of some type, ect.?

[arbfbe]

The book "Encyclopedia of Western Railroad History" Vol II by Donald Robertson lists the major logging railroads in Southern Idaho to include:

Boise Payette Lumber, HQ @ Boise, operations @ Emmett and Centerville, ID 1913-1946
McGoldrick Lumber, headquarters @ Wayland, ID 1907-1931
Hallack & Howard Lumber, headquarters @ Cascade, ID 1927-1938, shay on display

I would suppose the Boise Cascade archives would have enough material to make a book and materials on the other operations might be found. Perhaps there will be a second volume covering the more common operations in northern Idaho. The recent book on the WI&M makes note of some of these and is a terrific read in it's own right.

[dldance]

There has also been a lot of logging in Southeastern Idaho. Look for the "History of the Yellowstone Branch" for more information.

On the other side of the state, I grew up 1/4 mile from the Idaho Northern branch ( at AMSCO siding.) I remember about a train load a day of logs coming out of the Payette National Forest with a destination of the Boise-Payette mill at Meridian ID. And another part of a train load of finished lumber. I toured their mill in Payette Id while in elementary school and learned how they load 16 foot boards through a 6 foot boxcar door.

This was old growth logging Idaho style with trees of about 2 to 2 1/2 foot in diameter at the stump, although there were many larger. My dad knew the owner of the company that built many of the forest service logging and fire roads through that company and I visited their camp many times. There I learned that if all else fails, dynamite is a good way to get a TD20 crawler unstuck.

Happy Reading - I look forward to finding the book,

dd

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the information, guys. I stand corrected.

I take it then that the old Barber branch east out of Boise was part of a larger logging railroad network that reached up into Boise County?

[Anonymous]

That was one of the two logging railroad books I had planned to buy this year.

My father as a kid spend time up at Cascade during the summer. He once told me about riding a Hallack & Howard Lumber loco up at Cascade. The locomotive he rode is now on the Sumpter Valley.

Production wise the Boise Payette mill was only producing about 10% less than the big Potlatch Mill in the north during the 1920s

[kenneo]

Just a "Me Too" comment. As a youngen, I would work on my Uncles ranch which was within sight of the IN near Emmett. And I had another Uncle that lived about a mile from Amalgamated's sugar plant near Nampa. Have seen the loggeers comming through Emmett, Horseshoe Bend, over Little Freezeout and also the sugar trains out of Nampa.

I have just one "problem" with the title of that book. While it technically is "Southern Idaho" in the Boise and Payette valleys, us natives of those years called it Western Idaho. Southern Idaho was Pocatello, Idaho Falls -- down thataway toward Salt Lake. The IN has, I believe, the shortest RR tunnel in the world. You can stand in the middle, streach out yours toward each and and be "standing" inside the tunnel and outside of both ends at the same time -- well, almost. It's not quite that short.

[dldance]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

The IN has, I believe, the shortest RR tunnel in the world. You can stand in the middle, streach out yours toward each and and be "standing" inside the tunnel and outside of both ends at the same time -- well, almost. It's not quite that short.

About where is this tunnel?

dd

[Anonymous]

I found this tidbit from the April, 1916 issue of "The Timberman" on page 45;3 in a small article titled Boise- Payette Company:

Boise-Payette Company

...The logs are railed over the Intermountain railroad which was constructed by the company into the Boise basin a distance of some 35 miles. Operating rights over the government owned line constructed from Boise to the Arrowrock dam on the Boise-Payette project bring the logs right into the dam constructed across the Boise River...The timber is of excellent quality and will run about four logs (16 ft section) to the thousand.

Jim

[Saxman57]

 Nothing like finding a thread years later!

I remember as a kid going up the Payette River on fishing trips. I distinctly remember hearing someone in the car say, "there's Dad's tunnel", insinuating that my father had helped build the tunnel. Years later, in talking with my siblings (Mom and Dad have both since passed), some don't recall anything about that at all, but one remembers it the way I do. So, I have always referred to that tunnel as "Dad's tunnel" and hope to model it someday. My younger sister and I travelled up there a couple of summers ago to take pictures to be used in modeling eventually. It brought back a lot of pretty neat memories.

 For exact location, it's very close to a place called Cougar Mountain Lodge. 

 

Also, here's a link...

http://www.trainweb.org/chris/Idaho.html

[Bruce Kelly]

The tunnel in question is either Tunnel 3 (29 feet long) located between Emmett Jct. and Horseshoe Bend, or Tunnel 5 (37 feet long) just north of Smiths Ferry. FM, I think you had it right the first time. Even though these former logging lines are in the southern HALF of Idaho, it would be more geographically precise to say they're in south-central Idaho. Or even western Idaho as previously stated. (Interesting to note that the most inland of Pacific ports is at Lewiston, Idaho, yet Lewiston is almost as far west as San Diego.) Southern Idaho conjures up high desert, desolate canyons, sagebrush and bunnies, manned helpers out of Glenns Ferry, Bruneau Dunes, Craters of the Moon, and very few trees.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Well, just as a "wise-guy" response:

There must have been logging roads in Southern Idaho - otherwise, how else do you think the area got so . . . tree-less ?

I hope to get out that way for the 1st time in late May - Salt Lake City to Pocatello to Yellowstone seems the likely route now.  Will probably ask for some advice for what to see - esp. at the latter 2 locations - as it gets nearer.  Don't hold this post against me . . .

- Paul North.

[Beach Bill]

futuremodal

Been perusing through the latest (Summer 2005) issue of the "Historic Rail" mail order catalog. On page 6 there's an ad for the book "The Log Trains of Southern Idaho" by an auther with the last name of Witherell. Part of the abstract reads "....through the dense forests of southern Idaho."


Does anyone out there have this book? If so, is it indeed about logging train operations in southern Idaho, or am I correct in suspecting a catalog misprint/typo/error of some type, ect.?

 

Yes, I have the book.  Plenty of good photos.   The text is unlike almost any other railroad book in my collection.   The style is far more academic than is common in railroad histories.   A sample quote:  "Less jocose was the backing of trains down from Rye Flat to Steirman to turn."   Well researched, but the author appears to choose complex expressions whenever possible. 

Bill

[Railway Man]

Most of the book concerns Boise-Payette and Cascade Lumber, which were the big players in Southern Idaho.  (I used to live there and that's what WE called it.)

Boise-Payette Lumber was part of the Weyerhaeuser family empire, along with Potlatch and some other famous names in lumber that have long ago disappeared.  Boise-Payette merged with Cascade Lumber in 1957 to become Boise-Cascade, diversified into paper, diversified into office products supply, and now is back being a lumber company again.  Full circle.

Boise-Payette was one of the largest suppliers in the Intermountain West.  Its market territory was southern Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska, and Kansas.  Looking at their annual reports, it was not for most of its existence much of a money-maker.  The costs of operation in Idaho's steep mountains, winter snows, and mixed specie forests were too high, rail transportation costs prohibitive, and the market size too small.  Potlatch did just as badly.  Weyerhaeuser's cash machine was the Puget Sound watershed, with water-carried timber to California and through the Panama Canal to the East Coast.  Weyerhaeuser's Baltimore lumber terminal was for some time the largest lumber distribution center in the U.S.

RWM