Railroad Mergers and You

[Angela Pusztai-Pasternak]

Railroad mergers, like other business consolidations, have seen their share of successes (Burlington Northern Santa Fe) and failures (remember Penn Central?). How have mergers changed railroading in the places you watch trains? DISCUSS AMONG YOURSELVES!

[BNSFGP38]

The rail meger of the B&M, MEC and DH was a disaster. Guilford is a parasite that just wont die.

[blade]

the merging of railroads is both good and at the same time bad.the good is that they have more locomotive power and other rolling stock,perhaps hiring more people to work for them if they merge creating job opportunities.on the other hand is that some people could loose thier position.

[Anonymous]

Discuss "among ourselves"? why? I'd LOVE to see another rehash of mergers past a present in the magazines.


there is so much 'behind the scenes' goings on that it is always fun to learn the things that made some merger strategies worth pursuing while others never had a candle of a hope.

And then there is always the "what might have been" aspect, that is always fun to bat about..

Here in my local town (Fort Wayne Indiana), the way the mergers were looked at during thre period in question versus the way they panned out is kind of entertaining.

The 1964 merger of Nickle Plate, Wabash, And N&W was generally seen as a "bad thing", though there were far more colorful metaphors in circulation at the time, the general concensus seemed to be one of betrayal, and certain doom as that "southern coal outfit" ruined these fine industrial railroads. While the 1968 marriage of the other 2 major railroads in town PRR and NYC, was seen as such a GREAT THING,..so much was expected to come of it.

If you look at who the PRR and NYC had for trackside customers, it sure looked like they were gonna own this town. Everybody who was somebody was adjacent to their tracks.

Fast forward 40 years later, and NS all but owns this town, while most of the old PC right of way has been singletracked, abandoned, or pulled up entirely.

As Yogi Berra would have said "Who'da thunk it?"

The Penn Central merger (to me) makes even less sense if you contemplate all the affilliated roads that each namesake entity controlled (Big four, etc) which makes the entire ordeal look like a recipe for cutting ones own throat rather than a business plan having promise for success.

What I would have rather seen might have been NYC, Wabash, and Santa Fe tie the knot, with PRR, CNW, and uncle pete providing the competition. And maybe a Milwaukee- Erie Lakawanna merger for good measure and maybe a C&O-Great Northern merger, just for chuckles

[slotracer]

As a business move they have been mostly good although thier going too far and merging down to too few carriers has resulted in duopolistic/monopolistic behavior that will eventaully come back to hurt them.
From an interest in trains perspective, it has mostly been bad. Although many carriers were in very poor health which none of us want, it has destroyed variety which is a prime reason many of us enjoy railroads and has wiped out individaul character that the various lines used to have that is another reason so many are/were interested in railroads. Mergers have cleaned many lines off the map forever which is not a good thing if you like railroads. Perhaps a mainline near you has increased in train density due to closed lines of identical capacity elsewhere, but many towns and regions see little to no trains at all.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Discuss "among ourselves"? why? I'd LOVE to see another rehash of mergers past a present in the magazines.


What I would have rather seen might have been NYC, Wabash, and Santa Fe tie the knot, with PRR, CNW, and uncle pete providing the competition. And maybe a Milwaukee- Erie Lakawanna merger for good measure and maybe a C&O-Great Northern merger, just for chuckles

LOL! talk about "putting your foot in in it"....I just bought the July issue Wednesday evening, and see now that the mag did EXACTLY THAT.....[8] My bad.

I was more than just a little surprised to see the specific referance to a Santa Fe/Wabash,NYC Transcon routing after I had made mention of it, I guess great minds think alike? [:D]

Specific to the articles "slant" touting the virtue of a BNSF-NS merger to be the ability to avoid "Congested Chicago".....I've been reading for some time in Trains magazine about how bad Chicago congestion is,...and to some extent I have no doubt that it truly is...But I am starting to conclude that "Congested ol' Chicago" is not as big of a thorn in the side of the railroads as the magazine always portrays it as.

I think the "problem" must be getting a tad over sensationalized by the conservative/liberal (pick one [:D] ) media.

Why? Because if it were REALLY that huge a daunting problem for them, they would be doing more to solve the problem, than they presently are.

In fact, BNSF has all but mothballed their facility in Remington Indiana, conveniantly removed from the chicago congestion along the line they formerly co-owned with PRR, the TP&W.. Surely a dandy of an exchange point could have been built there IF IT WERE THAT BIGGA BURNING PRIORITY to dodge Chicago.

BNSF has other "potential" exchange points with both CSX and NS that avoid Chicago altogether, but evidently the share of revenue thus forfeited thru the shorter haul is perceived to be a more menacing demon than the 'awful awful Chicago congestion" that would be avoided if the exchangeswere made elsewhere. But,.. in the case of a theoretical revitalized Remington facility on the TP&W, a seeming best of both worlds would be available to BNSF,...allowing a maximum haul AND Chicago avoidance,...yet I don't see BNSF running to make the change.

I'm begining to think that the greatest tangible impact "Chicago congestion" has upon the Railroads is in terms of giving the trade journals a cause celebre to rally around bantering about the need for "taxpayer subsidized impovements to infastructure" in the odd months that some evil republican has not said anything sufficiently negative about Amtrak to raise a newsworthy stink about. [:D]

[AlcoRS11Nut]

In my town.........it all depends on who you ask. For the bulk of the railfan's in town it was "doomsday".....maybe not doomsday but it was a very "dark" day. Every railfan (that I know of) in town liked the Chicago and Northwestern. Me on the other hand...........how could I put this......... I was a die-hard Union Pacific fan ever since I knew what a train was. So, when Union Pacific bought CNW, I was estatic, while some of my railfans buddies were rather depressed. I liked the CNW but, I just liked UP more, and come to think of it I liked all the railroads UP bought/merged with; SP, MoPAC, CNW (to name a few).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by blade

the merging of railroads is both good and at the same time bad.the good is that they have more locomotive power and other rolling stock,perhaps hiring more people to work for them if they merge creating job opportunities.on the other hand is that some people could loose thier position.

It's not just about "positions" within a railroad. Railroads have a social benefit (more so in the past maybe, pre Amtrak), and the mergers, more specifically, the "rationalisation" after the mergers, cuts many towns off the railroad map. What happens to the industries in those towns? (however small). The impact is felt by many not on the railroad's books. A town could die with it's connection cut to the outside world.

And well said slotracer. As a relative newcomer to US railroads, I'm learning about the older roads through other people's pictures and there is a vast amount of variety in the various roads' "character". (That's why I like the Rock...it may have been a bit dishevelled, but it had guts of character - the same with the Milwaukee Road)

[Anonymous]

You would find more than one person to agree with you Richard. wecome to the forum - PL

[CSXrules4eva]

Railroad mergers haven't really affected me too much in the great state of PA. I was born in 1986, the same year CSX was formed so, I wish I could comment on that but, I was only about 1 at the time and didn't know what CSX was.
I can say one thing though railroads around my area way back when like the Philadelphia, Germantown, and Norristown Railroad, Chestnut Hill Railroad, Philadelphia & Reading Railroad, and the West Chester Railroad saw a heck of a lot more action back in those days than it does now since Septa took over all the lines. Since Septa took over these railroad's lines and abandoned some it's become booring.
:(.

[Junctionfan]

Ever since CN bought Wisconsin Central, traffic has be rather small in Ontario. Rather boring from a railfan's point of view. Most of what now goes through Wisconsin used to go through Ontario's southwestern line Dundas Subdivision.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Ever since CN bought Wisconsin Central, traffic has be rather small in Ontario. Rather boring from a railfan's point of view. Most of what now goes through Wisconsin used to go through Ontario's southwestern line Dundas Subdivision.

I thought that the magazines postulation about what might come out of a CN /NS merger was quite amusing..

Talking about the NewCastle division becoming a major north-south corridor for CN between Detroit/Chicago and the deep south.....was amusing to think about.

Having grown up around what has always been a somewhat sleepy teritary route more like a spur on steroids for the old Nickle plate, it still surprises me that NS made this a thru route to cincinnat, to begin with.

In the unlikely chance that CN and NS merged, the thought of this line becoming a major artery is mindboggling. Heh, if they doubled that line I'd not know what to think.

[Junctionfan]

I think a CN/ CSX merger would be more interesting. Intermodal traffic through my area would be quite heavy as the Canadian west coast/ Toronto to New York/ U.S eastcoast traffic would use the CN Buffalo Corridor and head from Buffalo through the Selkirk line.

I would imagine alot of Michigan/ New York State traffic might be routed through Ontario just to eliminate some growing conjestion on the Willard and Columbus Subdivisions.

[UPTRAIN]

I have no desire to see any more mega mergers in the future...that would look weird...NS units with an orange patch...yuck...or CSX with a UP patch...can you imagine Conrail flexicoiled SD40-2's in orange paint in the "heritage" (not hardly) 3 BNSF paint scheme....I shudder to think.

[UPTRAIN]

Here's another thing...standardization...I would hate to see MORE units operating under the same name, way too few companies as it is.

[Junctionfan]

IMHO, if mega merging is to be, it will be CN/ KCS/ CSX/ BNSF vs. UP/ CP/ NS. I also believe that some of the shortlines will merge with each other if not the class 1s.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I also believe that some of the shortlines will merge with each other if not the class 1s.

I wonder if there are many shortlines that it would even make good sense for them to merge? (contiguous routes, etc.)

I rally don't know,..but the general impression I have for most of them is as remote, socked away, entities rejected by the class ones for not offering enough potential for volume.

It would be cool to see a modern day Jay Gould type quilt together a buncha spinoffs into a cohesive empire,...but that's gotta be a dream and little else...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

It would be cool to see a modern day Jay Gould type quilt together a buncha spinoffs into a cohesive empire,...but that's gotta be a dream and little else...

Isn't that what Gennesee and Wyoming are doing? Admittedly they can never get their railroads to all connect, but if the traffic originates and terminates on G&W trackage...it's all the better for them.

Speaking of G&W, it's a pity they paint everything boiler suit orange...it's certainly distinctive, but it's robbing shortlines of their character too.

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

IMHO, if mega merging is to be, it will be CN/ KCS/ CSX/ BNSF vs. UP/ CP/ NS. I also believe that some of the shortlines will merge with each other if not the class 1s.

As a good friend of mine once said "If you see another railroad's power on a line that isn't their own, that means they are going to merge." So your predictions of CSX/BNSF isn't going to happen because the other day I saw UP flag units on CSX trackage! So you know what that means MERGER!! CSX/UP. really lol [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by addax61024



Isn't that what Gennesee and Wyoming are doing? Admittedly they can never get their railroads to all connect, but if the traffic originates and terminates on G&W trackage...it's all the better for them.

Speaking of G&W, it's a pity they paint everything boiler suit orange...it's certainly distinctive, but it's robbing shortlines of their character too.

I really had forgotten all about G&W....h'mmmmm..Interesting thought.

it would be cool to see the feds force the class ones petitioning for any new merger, to spinoff underutilized assets that have atrophied since previous merger aquisition, to a G&W type, creating another class 1 in the process, as a condition to the merger..

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

Railroad mergers haven't really affected me too much in the great state of PA. I was born in 1986, the same year CSX was formed so, I wish I could comment on that but, I was only about 1 at the time and didn't know what CSX was.

CSX was formed Nov 1, 1980.....

[Anonymous]

I belive the BNSF merger made train watching in the twin cities more interesting. Pre BNSF it was alot of stackers and merchandise trains. Not there are tons of Hotshot Z trains, about twice as much coal with DPU. And the most amazing locomotives all of wich i belive comes from the finincal backing brought on by the competive nature of Santa Fe management.