The Best Locomotive Of All Time ?

[nanaimo73]

I'm not sure if this is a question that can be answered, but I would enjoy the debate.
From 1954 until 1963 a total of 5,625 GP9s were built in the USA and Canada.
From 1972 until 1986 a total of 4,273 SD40-2s were built.
There are good reasons for those numbers. I have read the same things on both, easy to run, easy to work on, and I've heard both called indestructable.I believe the number three best seller was the GP18 at 3908, but they didn't seem to age as well as the GP9s.
We can't decide this, I'm just interested in your opinion.Obviously today's locomotives can do a lot more work and get better mileage, but we don't know how long they will last.

[jchnhtfd]

Best locomotive of all time? Oy, my friend, what a question! It's been around before, though... you'll likely get a few responses.

What is true about the GP-9, though -- and I'm not saying it's the 'best' -- is that the durn things were pretty near bullet proof. They ran, and ran, and ran, and ran... and a surprising number of them still do.

[Anonymous]

Well - Afair russian tep 60 were produced just above 12000 examples - all using a copy of alco 251 prime mover ^^

[CSXrules4eva]

Well this is a hard question because there can be so much said about the GP9 and the SD40-2. This is just like asking which locomotive was better the GP9 or Alco's RS3. I'm sure it all depends on the operator or the person.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the best locmotive of all time (to me) was the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 H8 class.

[gabe]

I am surprised no one has said the 4x4x0 American!

I don't think this assertion can be seriously debated. A harder question is the second best locomotive of all time.

Think of the possible categories:

(1) Changing a paradigm. Yes the GP-7/9 gets high marks in this category. It marked a new era in locomotive thought processes. But, the RS-1/3 beat it to the punch--a few say there were even categories the RS-3 were better at. Whereas the American was a departure that changed the face of railroading much more dramatically. In some ways, I think the SD-40-2 was just as much of a departure as the GP-7/9 and was probably more useful.

(2) Ubiquitousness (sp?). Yes, there were many GP-7/9s, but in its heyday, man the American was it. It is possible to counter that assertion by noting that there are more specialized hauling requirements in 1960 as opposed to 1860, which is why not all engines were of the GP-7/9 type. However, the American was one of the first locomotives to show that railroads were capable of handling such specialized practices.

(3) Strengths of the locomotive: yes, the GP-7/9s were rough and tumble, and certainly require less maintenance. But, look at the comparison, were the GP-7's that much more rough and tumble than an F unit as compared to an American's rough and tumbleness compared to a Prussian-type steamer? The American was a much bigger step forward.

(4) Longevity. I am not sure that the GP-9 will even take the cake with diesels on this one. It looks to me that the SD-40-2 will have a noticeably longer lifespan than the Geep (in terms of when the last one will be retired). I can't really say how long the American type lasted, as its success led to specifications that eventually led to its demise.

In short, I think the GP-9/SD-40-2 are a close duel, but neither of them are close to the 4x4x0 American. I would rather ride in a GP-9/SD-40-2 (and even like them better) but I can't say with a straight face that either were better than the American in about any category you want to put forth. I also think the Consolidation gives the GP-9 a run for its money.

Gabe

P.S. If we are using no categories other than our imagination and what could have been, the Niagra is mine.

[dldance]

I would throw a vote in for the SW1200/1500. Hundreds are still going strong.

dd

[DTomajko]

My vote would be for the SD40-2 for all time best, but I would also include the GP40-2 with it. Both used the same prime mover & electrical system. While only 815 GP's were built versus the SD's 3458 units, both enjoy similar lifespans. For example, NS is still using SD40-2 helpers on the east and west slopes of Gallitzin on the Pittsburgh Division and the Geeps are being painted into the "Horsehead/ Whiteface" scheme and released into local shifter service. I even noticed that one of the GP40-2's was a former Reading engine recently repainted. Most if not all of these locomotives were purchase by Conrail from 1977 to 1979, that's 25 years of continuous service! I think that kind of record speaks for itself and I'm sure that this is the same story on all the other railroads. By the way, I believe the GP7/9 is an extreemly worthy and close candidate for the top spot and ranks in second place by only the slimmest of margins. Good luck and stay safe.

[Hugh Jampton]

Depends how you define best,, my vote goes to Thomas the Tank Engine for inspiring many young people into becoming railroad employees and railfans.

[dehusman]

GG-1

[Anonymous]

I'd have to say Richard Trevethick's "Penydarren" engine of 1804. At the time, it would have been the equivalent of the space shuttle. It was the world's very first locomotive and is what started it all for every future locomotive. It's the ancestor of every other mentioned candidate. That's definetly an accomplishment that deserves regocnition!

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

Well this is a hard question because there can be so much said about the GP9 and the SD40-2. This is just like asking which locomotive was better the GP9 or Alco's RS3. I'm sure it all depends on the operator or the person.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the best locmotive of all time (to me) was the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 H8 class.

Well this one has been 'kicked' around several times before; so I'm really not going to get into this at this time;except to say that Sarah,you picked the best steam in
my book.[:D]

[adrianspeeder]

Oh boy, your topic is too general. Just like you wouldn't use a SD40 to pull high speed passenger, does that make it not the best?

Hmmm, I have the feeling this all has been done before..

Adrianspeeder

[Kurn]

The B&O EM-1.A passenger geep in B&O colors.3 SD40-2's starting a long coal drag.But around here,there is an awful lot of GP 38's in CSX and WLE consists.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

Oh boy, your topic is too general. Just like you wouldn't use a SD40 to pull high speed passenger, does that make it not the best?

Hmmm, I have the feeling this all has been done before..

Adrianspeeder

But you could use an SDP 35 or 40.

Mitch

[Anonymous]

Geeps and SDs aside, my vote goes to the Eunits. Preferrably an A-B-A lashup of 8sand9s in IC colors.

Mitch

[Anonymous]

I will have to say the GG1.

I am a steam fan but looking at toughness, brute strength and length of service...

I wonder if one of these were upgraded and sent to race the french TGV who would win?

[cbq9911a]

It depends on how you define "best":

If you define it in terms of "suitability for the work being done", it's a 3 way tie between the GP7 / GP9, PRR GG1, and the N & W J class 4-8-4.

If you define it in terms of "still going strong in non-trivial numbers after all these years", it's the Chicago 4000 series rapid transit cars (still running regularly in museums after 80 years).

If you define it in terms of "major impact", there are many candidates: N & W's "Big 3" (A, J, and Y); UP Big Boy and Turbine, PRR GG-1, and many others.

If you define it in terms of "the best in IMHO", there are too many candidates to list.

[Anonymous]

On the road.....SD40-2.... In the yards and special duties...GP-9...passenger service...E-8

[Sterling1]

Depends on your view . . .

GG-1 w/ some upgrades . . .

SD40-2 great reliability

Drag service : N & W Y6b
High speed: NKP Berkshire 2-8-4

[CopCarSS]

Man...the "of all time" stipulation makes this really, really tough. How can one compare an SD40-2, GP9, K4s, 4-4-0, and early pioneers on both sides of the pond? In their respective eras, each was very successful, and did much for the business of railroading.

And how does one define best? While there were boatloads of consolidations that lived right up until the end of steam, they hardly pop to mind as "best" to anyone, because there was nothing superlative to them. Yet they did their job, and did it well, and did it a long time. Yet there hasn't been a vote cast for a 2-8-0 yet.

What about the Dreyfuss styled J-3a Hudsons? They were the penultimate of streamlining, at least to me. It would be the highlight of my life to see one running at 100 mph+.

What about the K class Mikes on the D&RGW narrow gauge? They still earn their keep to this day, and still live to pull on some insane grades.

Or how about the FT diesel, the locomotive the put the writing on the wall for steam. Sure it had its problems, and as a single unit was pretty useless. Surely it still deserves some votes?

Just my thoughts,

Chris
Denver, CO

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1
GG-1 w/ some upgrades . . .

??? It lasted forever??? What more could you ask from it!!!

I vote for the Acela's!!!![:D]

[BR60103]

I suggest Stroudley's A1 and A1x class Terrier 0-6-0T of the LBSC. Originally designed in 1872, they were still running up to the end of steam in Britain (1960s).
Does anyone have another class that lasted 90 years in regular service? And has examples still running in preservation?

[daveklepper]

Again, the New Haven EF-4 was a mechanical and electrical improvement on the GG-1, even though only 20 were built. And they were retired because of mismannagement not because they were superceded. (De-electrify and close Cops Cob, a large a__o manufacturer;s consultants) The last 4-4-0's did continue running into the early 50's on ligh-rail branch lines, including at least one on the PRR on the Del-Mar-Va penninsula. giving them about 110 year of continous service of the wheel arrangement, pretty hard to beat! Of course Strassburg's lasted even longer, but I guess that won't count. I am very glad the GP-9 is well liked. And what about the locomotives (two, one diesel and one electric) that truly rescued Amtrak? And could handle freight if asked to do so! (The electric probably in multiple for a long train)

[passengerfan]

Not saying it was the best but NP had operating FTs into the late 1960's then sold them through a dealer to Mexico for further service.

[cpbloom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DTomajko

My vote would be for the SD40-2 for all time best, but I would also include the GP40-2 with it. Both used the same prime mover & electrical system. While only 815 GP's were built versus the SD's 3458 units, both enjoy similar lifespans. For example, NS is still using SD40-2 helpers on the east and west slopes of Gallitzin on the Pittsburgh Division and the Geeps are being painted into the "Horsehead/ Whiteface" scheme and released into local shifter service. I even noticed that one of the GP40-2's was a former Reading engine recently repainted. Most if not all of these locomotives were purchase by Conrail from 1977 to 1979, that's 25 years of continuous service! I think that kind of record speaks for itself and I'm sure that this is the same story on all the other railroads.

Although my production numbers are different than yours (my diesel spotters guide shows over 1000 GP40-2s built if you count Canadian units and over 3800 SDs) , you do bring up a good point.

Considering the GP40-2 had to compete with SD40-2s, I think GP40-2s sold pretty darn well! There were slightly more GP40s sold than SD40s but that changed when dash 2s came out drastically, but the GP40-2 held its own[8D]. The thing I liked about Conrail is they had almost an equal number of both.

I vote a three way tie between the SD40-2, the GP40-2 and the "eternal" GP38-2 which had over 2000 built [8D]!!!!

[Anonymous]

My vote is for the SD-40-2.
Even after being retired or returned to the lessor, the railroads have enough confidence to lease them back (long and short term), and run them everywhere a brand new unit would go.
Jimmy

[Anonymous]

Diesel - the GP9. Go anywhere, do anything, and keep it up forever.

Steam - N&W's Y5/6/6a/6b 2-8-8-2, based on Gross Ton Miles per Train Hour per Dollar (first cost, maintenance, operating, etc. - the only yardstick that makes sense); sorry, Chessie Fans, the 2-6-6-6 doesn't even come close, especially when you figure in those nasty ol' dollars.

Electric - the GG1. Hands down.

Old Timer

[arbfbe]

There is no one best locomotive. It relates to time and situation. Time is relative to what is avaiiable and situation relates to the job. The steam vs diesel agrument was setttled by the ecomonics of the diesel years ago. Post the late 1940's steam should not even be considered at all. Pre 1939 diesels, maybe only in yard service. How can an 0-6-0 be then best when the UP wants to run fast freight over Sherman Hill? How can an Allegheny be the best when shippers on the docks want service from the B&O?

When I worked the Deadwood, SD switch engine in the early 1970s the best engine was SW-1 #88. It was better than an SW1200 which was too powerful and better for the bottom line than any steamer before it. The 88 pulled better than the 91 which seemed more slippery.

The Deadwood crew when asked that question would say the 88, of course. That is what they needed and what they had experience with. A crew running freight trains over the Bitterroot Mountains in Montana woudl give the vote to a Little Joe during the same period.

[Anonymous]

I would have to say the GG1 is the best loco of all times. I was on the rails for 50 years. What other locomotive can say that?

[arbfbe]

The MILW boxcabs, on the rails in 1914 with a life expectancy of 15 years, finally retired in 1974. I coubt they would have racked up the miles or tonnage of the GG1s in that itme , though.